Serving Bods And Local Mps
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Serving Bods And Local Mps
Does anyone out there know where serving pesonnel stand wrt speaking to their local MPs on sensitive Service matters if they believe the chain of command is not living up to its title (ie links of chain are broken and there is no sign of any commanders at the other end)?
If, as I suspect, they are governed/impeded by the OSA what about their spouses/families? Just wondering!
If, as I suspect, they are governed/impeded by the OSA what about their spouses/families? Just wondering!
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I once spoke to my solicitor about a Sensitive Servive matter (1) and after litigation achieved a correct and fair result. Trashed any promotion prospects in a significant way though, but principle remains intact.
I assume that both "Condor" and "Direct open reporting" are not appropriate to your complaint?
Many service individuals have achieved quick PVRs via local MPs, go to free.uk.armed-forces.royal-air-force newsgroup and ask advice there and it will come in abundance.
Personally if I felt trapped in a corner, I would do what I felt comfortable with rather than seeking advice from the many barrack room lawyers (bang.. bang..both feet) and if that meant a chat with an MP, then so be it. Service loyalty is usually a one way street.
(1) Which was actually a private matter that the service chose to get involved in due to the antiquated Air Force Law saying it should. A letter threatening a Wg Cdr personally got the RAF off my back, but it should never have got that far.
Yozzer
I assume that both "Condor" and "Direct open reporting" are not appropriate to your complaint?
Many service individuals have achieved quick PVRs via local MPs, go to free.uk.armed-forces.royal-air-force newsgroup and ask advice there and it will come in abundance.
Personally if I felt trapped in a corner, I would do what I felt comfortable with rather than seeking advice from the many barrack room lawyers (bang.. bang..both feet) and if that meant a chat with an MP, then so be it. Service loyalty is usually a one way street.
(1) Which was actually a private matter that the service chose to get involved in due to the antiquated Air Force Law saying it should. A letter threatening a Wg Cdr personally got the RAF off my back, but it should never have got that far.
Yozzer
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Go ahead, write to your MP, get your way, prove the MOD wrong and I'll be right behind you.
I've been f***ed around in equal measure and also considered every avenue including the legal thing and the line you are considering, but remember this....
"You don't have to win every battle to win the war"
...and that works for your enemies too.
You might walk away with some dosh in your back pocket, a smile on your face and a reconditioned quarter, THEY won't, and they won't forget it either.
Sad but true, but then discretion is the better part of valour. Pity the "THEY" in question don't have any.
Grit teeth, walk away, browse job section of broad sheets.
I've been f***ed around in equal measure and also considered every avenue including the legal thing and the line you are considering, but remember this....
"You don't have to win every battle to win the war"
...and that works for your enemies too.
You might walk away with some dosh in your back pocket, a smile on your face and a reconditioned quarter, THEY won't, and they won't forget it either.
Sad but true, but then discretion is the better part of valour. Pity the "THEY" in question don't have any.
Grit teeth, walk away, browse job section of broad sheets.
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Thanks Yozzer
It wasn't so much a personal problem, more of a general maliase!
The Condor option might be a go-er but i am not sure of the promised total confidentiality. Normally and despite IFS/DASC assurances, the high-paid-help can figure out what and where you are by putting 2 and 2 together (to make 3.... but that's close enough to hurt when they drop their ****-bomb!).
Would it be in contravention of some out-of-date QR/AFL or can serving personnel (or spouses of) approach their MPs?
ps Could you confirm that address/website - I got no joy with it all. TVM
It wasn't so much a personal problem, more of a general maliase!
The Condor option might be a go-er but i am not sure of the promised total confidentiality. Normally and despite IFS/DASC assurances, the high-paid-help can figure out what and where you are by putting 2 and 2 together (to make 3.... but that's close enough to hurt when they drop their ****-bomb!).
Would it be in contravention of some out-of-date QR/AFL or can serving personnel (or spouses of) approach their MPs?
ps Could you confirm that address/website - I got no joy with it all. TVM
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RAF Newsgroup
If using Outlook express, the adress is:
free.uk.armed-forces.royal-air-force
However one of my two ISPs will not allow access. (btinternet)
Therefore enter via the web at site address:
http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=d...oyal-air-force
Regarding your question, I think that to be sure you will need to get a MAFL & QRs and check. I have found of late that if your complaint has cost cutting within a million miles of it then senior officers are usually privately on side but compelled to represent the party line because that stance gos with the job.
YOZZER
free.uk.armed-forces.royal-air-force
However one of my two ISPs will not allow access. (btinternet)
Therefore enter via the web at site address:
http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=d...oyal-air-force
Regarding your question, I think that to be sure you will need to get a MAFL & QRs and check. I have found of late that if your complaint has cost cutting within a million miles of it then senior officers are usually privately on side but compelled to represent the party line because that stance gos with the job.
YOZZER
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I am probably hopelessly out of date, but in my day writing to your MP on anything that could be construed as a Service matter was strictly a No-No! If you have what you think is a genuine complaint, the procedure is laid down in QRs (Redress of Grievance), which in the last resort can be taken as far as the Queen. There is nothing to stop your wife or girl-friend writing to her MP; but you better be careful that your collusion cannot be proved!
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You must be p*ssed - deal with MPs - they can be even more slippery than "official channels". If you can't take a joke etc etc - look for another job - just don't bore the wotsits off the rest of us while you're doing it - cheers 'mate' Now where's that mongoose of mine got to?
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MPs & Serving Bods
While we should go through the whole QR thing, I'd love to see the airships have a go at someone for talking to their local MP about any matter that you feel you cannot discuss with them directly. We all have the right to vote and a citizens right to speak to our MP. Probably not cricket though, just to go behind their backs.
I was fortunate enough to have a brief chat with my Tory boy, during his campaigning in the last election, about some service issues (Including overstretch). He seemed onside and should have been as he holds a shadow post is in defence somewhere, but who knows, they all lie like a cheap Japanese watch on a Transport Secretary's wrist.
I was fortunate enough to have a brief chat with my Tory boy, during his campaigning in the last election, about some service issues (Including overstretch). He seemed onside and should have been as he holds a shadow post is in defence somewhere, but who knows, they all lie like a cheap Japanese watch on a Transport Secretary's wrist.
Last edited by Ralf Wiggum; 9th May 2002 at 22:21.
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I am sorry, but in my day there were some "rights" you gave up when you took the Queen's shilling, eg:-
The right to tell your boss to "sod off" when he told you to do something uncongenial.
The right to go on strike.
The right to walk out and find another job if the RAF became unpleasant.
The right to have sex with anyone you liked whenever you liked.
The right to make public statements on Service matters without clearing it "through channels".
The right to make unauthorised disclosures of classified information - even the humble RESTRICTED.
The right to communicate with your MP on Service matters.
And quite a few others.
The right to tell your boss to "sod off" when he told you to do something uncongenial.
The right to go on strike.
The right to walk out and find another job if the RAF became unpleasant.
The right to have sex with anyone you liked whenever you liked.
The right to make public statements on Service matters without clearing it "through channels".
The right to make unauthorised disclosures of classified information - even the humble RESTRICTED.
The right to communicate with your MP on Service matters.
And quite a few others.
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we bf
in a word yes, but the circumstances are all important. involvement of mp's must be justifiable, in that official chains of command have broken down or you have been subjected to treatment "outwith" official procedure which has been subsequently ignored.
generally speaking, after 15 years man and boy (gor blimey) there is nothing that ruins an adminners day more than a parliamentary enquiry landing on their desk.
one of the main problems these days in the politically correct blame free culture currently adopted, is that absolutely no-one is accountable for anything whatsoever. constitutionally speaking, each govt dept and agency is answerable to parliament, which is supposed to regulate and monitor activites. denying servicemen legitimate access and input to this process results in an impression of invulnerability of the upper echelons, which results in all too frequent shocking decisions. (see chinook thread)
whereas i too joined when flatus' post reigned true, i am of the opinion that the airships impression of invulnerability needs to be gradually dismantled - you only need to look at some of the recent appalling decisions to prove that someone needs to be accountable.
interestingly enough this thread made me look at the MoD's parliamentary guidance notes today, which states that servicemen are indeed entitled to communicate with their mp and no adverse comment is to be made, nor are they to be dissuaded from approaching their mp again. thats in QR's too. make the bu&&ers earn their money.
in a word yes, but the circumstances are all important. involvement of mp's must be justifiable, in that official chains of command have broken down or you have been subjected to treatment "outwith" official procedure which has been subsequently ignored.
generally speaking, after 15 years man and boy (gor blimey) there is nothing that ruins an adminners day more than a parliamentary enquiry landing on their desk.
one of the main problems these days in the politically correct blame free culture currently adopted, is that absolutely no-one is accountable for anything whatsoever. constitutionally speaking, each govt dept and agency is answerable to parliament, which is supposed to regulate and monitor activites. denying servicemen legitimate access and input to this process results in an impression of invulnerability of the upper echelons, which results in all too frequent shocking decisions. (see chinook thread)
whereas i too joined when flatus' post reigned true, i am of the opinion that the airships impression of invulnerability needs to be gradually dismantled - you only need to look at some of the recent appalling decisions to prove that someone needs to be accountable.
interestingly enough this thread made me look at the MoD's parliamentary guidance notes today, which states that servicemen are indeed entitled to communicate with their mp and no adverse comment is to be made, nor are they to be dissuaded from approaching their mp again. thats in QR's too. make the bu&&ers earn their money.
Interesting.
Flatus I would never divulge classified info to anyone who didn't need to know it. The OSA applies to everyone in the UK. Quite right too.
But "service matters" often relates to info in the public domain.
I only asked because of this thread, I must admit that I was of the opinion that when you become subject to QR, then contacting MPs was ilegal.
Interesting.
Flatus I would never divulge classified info to anyone who didn't need to know it. The OSA applies to everyone in the UK. Quite right too.
But "service matters" often relates to info in the public domain.
I only asked because of this thread, I must admit that I was of the opinion that when you become subject to QR, then contacting MPs was ilegal.
Interesting.
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I had cause to ask the very same question......
Went to handbrake house and formally asked OC Admin if I could legally speak to:
a) my MP and
b) my solicitor about a service matter.
I was assured that I was, however.....
By the time I had finished talking to OC A, the wheels were spinning like mad, and things started to happen very fast!
I didn't get the outcome I wanted
but I did did a responce
So do it
Not sure about if its a classified matter however
might be worth looking in QRs or MAFL ???
Good Luck
Went to handbrake house and formally asked OC Admin if I could legally speak to:
a) my MP and
b) my solicitor about a service matter.
I was assured that I was, however.....
By the time I had finished talking to OC A, the wheels were spinning like mad, and things started to happen very fast!
I didn't get the outcome I wanted
but I did did a responce So do it
Not sure about if its a classified matter however
might be worth looking in QRs or MAFL ???Good Luck
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Thanks All
Yep I tend to agree. It seems as if QRs will have to get a dust-off - if I can find them! Trouble is, are they worth tuppence these days (Euro-pinko-fluffy-human-rights thing)?...mmm, am not sure I trust that lot any more than I trust politicos and snr offs - pity my C2 chain is all askew. Seems as if I'm snookered all ways. Might have to trust to luck..yikes. Also might have to wait a while until I'm sure I won't go to Colchester. Caveat Emptor.
MC
Yep I tend to agree. It seems as if QRs will have to get a dust-off - if I can find them! Trouble is, are they worth tuppence these days (Euro-pinko-fluffy-human-rights thing)?...mmm, am not sure I trust that lot any more than I trust politicos and snr offs - pity my C2 chain is all askew. Seems as if I'm snookered all ways. Might have to trust to luck..yikes. Also might have to wait a while until I'm sure I won't go to Colchester. Caveat Emptor.
MC
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Serving Bods And Local Mps
Why not, it's a free country, well at least until president Blair,or should that be Napoleon of animal farm fame, stops us all thinking for ourselves. I'm not saying I've done it but, I'm sure it gets a load of your mind and it might do some good!!!!!
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Knockers at HMP Kinloss have been doing it for years. The local MP can ask a question in parliament and they get what will be the most honest answer there is!!
The problem is that the majoity of MPs won't understand what you're talking about, unless it can be related to "normal" civil law, like you human rights etc then they may not be much help anyway.
It doesn't matter how much THEY don't like it, you are still a British citizen and have the democratic rights that we all are here to defend!!!
The problem is that the majoity of MPs won't understand what you're talking about, unless it can be related to "normal" civil law, like you human rights etc then they may not be much help anyway.
It doesn't matter how much THEY don't like it, you are still a British citizen and have the democratic rights that we all are here to defend!!!
