One of your adversaries is missing...(merged)

[chippymick]

Many thanks Toadstool.

You are of course correct, on all accounts. My bad.

Best regards

Mick

[chuks]

Funny thing, that...

I always thought it was, yes, "MiG."

I must introduce Jane to an old friend I met here, one claiming lots of experience as a "Leer Jet" pilot; I bet they would find a lot in common to talk about, doing that "oneupmanship" thing and all....

That SASless! What a kidder! Well, if he wants to keep schtum about our neck-and-neck competition to be the world's greatest pilot, so be it.

I think he has a point about trying to tell our Jane anything, even if he did come across as a bit grumpy there. Well, perhaps it would work better, trying that in Vietnamese, but that's beyond our ken. If Jane's language skills stretch that far, I can say, "Gruesse von Goetz!" but that's about as far as it goes.

[hanoijane]

Chuks:

Why do you persist in baiting me? It's so unfair. You're an adult and I'm a snotty and ill-tempered eighteen year old unemployed youth living a life of complete fantasy on the Internet.

I jolly well would like to speak with your Leer Jet chum. He could tell me what it's like to reach Mach 1.4 in the climb and I could explain how I spanked the entire PLAAF simply by conducting a dazzling display of aerobatics over Nanning.

You really are a funny little dumpling :-)

[AtomKraft]

I've been to Da Nang. (and my kids).

There's no evidence of the USMC, nowadays and the beach is a pure white strand of unadulterated beauty.

The most beautiful place I've ever been to.

[AtomKraft]

Pontious.

So what?

The French were wrong, and so were the others. Is that your point?

[hanoijane]

Atom:

Ah, Da Nang, fun place. Used to fly out of there at silly o'clock, lord knows why they made us get up so early. No-one enjoyed it.

China Beach (though we can't call it that any more) is not as clean as it looks. Parts of the airfield and old helicopter base next to the coast road to Hoi An are badly contaminated with the residue of Agent Orange. It seeps in all directions. Oddly enough the new resorts are built near this contaminated area. Try not to think about it as you sip your cocktail and frolic in the surf.

Da Nang is a great place to get out of. Hire a mo'bike and drive to Monkey mountain or Marble mountain, or if you're feeling adventurous head up the Hai Van Pass to check out the spectacular view and the old French blockhouses at the top of the pass. If you want to learn more about Vietnamese history than my friend Michael, go to My Son. The Cham architecture is spectacular and the setting ultra-spooky. The 1A is super-dangerous but you aren't on it for long and road you turn off to head to My Son is rough but do-able. Just remember to leave My Son early enough to ensure you're not on the 1A when it gets dark. You will be killed by a 14 year old driving a giant orange truck with no lights or working brakes if you are.

If you want a resort recommendation in Da Nang PM me. I have a chum who owns a very cute resort about 3k outside the city centre on the road to Hoi An. It might just be No 1 on Tripadvisor for hotels in Da Nang...

BTW, Hoi An is the pits. Avoid it at all costs. Though there is a very good restaurant - Minh Hien Quan Chay - worth trying plus you HAVE to go see Madame Khanh for the Banh Mi. OK, so I guess you do have to go to Hoi An :-)

And that, my friends, is your pocket guide to Da Nang.

Now, did I tell you about the time I chased a U2 up to 85,000 feet in my little MIG/mIG/Mig/MiG, passing a Leer jet on the way? No? Then draw up a chair...

[AtomKraft]

HJ

Since we're chatting- we stayed at 'Sandy Beach'... I know, and I'm sorry for being so gay as to stay in such a place.

One morning at about 0500, with a giant smashing roar, a VNAF MiG-21 absolutely blasted over our lodging.

I got up at 0500 every morning after that, and stood in the surf with my camera, but no more MiGs.

As you'll know, the road goes through the old Marines base at Marble Mountain. One of the 'wonder arch' revetments is cut to allow the road to go through. I think it follows the runway.

My daughters loved Hoi An. They chose things from the Next directory and the girls in Hoi An made the stuff and delivered it next day.

The people in Viet Nam were what did it for us.

Gentle, kind and lovely.

[Janda]

Atomkraft I totally agree with you regarding the Vietnamese people. I have had two holidays there and hardly a problem. Considering their history they are lovely people and hold no malice to Westerners. I also love Hoi An and outside of Saigon and Hanoi it is the one place I have been to on both trips. Unfortunately, in a few years I am sure it will go the same way as all discovered holiday destinations.

[hanoijane]

It could have been worse, you could have stayed at the Nam Hai. Overpriced pretentious rubbish!

The 05:00 guy is playing the 'How low can you go' game along China beach, between Monkey mountain and Hoi An. I was speaking about it in another thread. It's been happening for years.

We have a guy just outside Hoi An who takes pics then sends them to us for rating. There is even an annual award (unofficially). I'm surprised you didn't see more low flying, but the kids today lack our youthful exuberance.

I'm pleased that you enjoyed Viet Nam. It's far from perfect, but we are trying. We genuinely like Westerners (though god knows why, given our history) and have a real interest in talking with you, learning from you and sharing our culture and our cuisine. Food is very important to us, you got that, right?

I hope you return one day. If you do, and I'm around, it would be my pleasure to meet you and share with you a little of my country. I will look forward to our meeting.

You have my thanks for your kind words about my country and people. Please accept my sincere best wishes for your future.

HJ

[SASless]

Did you do the Eco Tour at Hoi An?

Wonderful experience!

[AtomKraft]

Ok, two examples follow.

1. I wanted to visit the Army museum in Da Nang. Enquired at the hotel reception.
Told by receptionist it was a 'no-no'.
Told him I was going anyway- please get me a taxi.

Receptionist repeated warning.

I insisted on going.

Finally he shrugged, I'll take you myself. Got on his motorbike, went there, he bribed the guard to let us in by giving him some cigs, and had a good look around.

On the way back, he sensed I was too hot. We stopped and a chap at the roadside crushed some sugar cane in a sort of mangle to produce a type of sweet and very cooling and nourishing drink.

All three of us drank. Me, Tran Doan, and the taxi driver- but they gave me the most because they chose to.

2. At Marble Mountain, we stopped in a tiny place for a coke.

We went on, and after a while I realised I must have left my quite expensive hat in the tiny restaurant.

As we left the Marble Mountain caves, we met a girl who had my hat. She must have waited for me for 1-2 hours.

'Is this your hat?' she said.

While I was there, I read that a chap had handed in someones wallet, with a huge sum, to the local police.

I kinda thought.......us right or these guys right?

Me and the family been around, but if you ask my kids.....Viet Nam every time.

(HJ, we stayed at the Palace in Saigon)

[hanoijane]

Uh? Eco trip????

Do you mean the trip around the farms about 2k outside of Hoi An with the rabid dogs who try to eat you as you drive by on your Honda Airblade?

You like some strange things, SAS. But then you are a Yankee...

[hanoijane]

How can you drink the sugar cane? Even I can't cope with that :-)

I'm VERY pleased to hear you were treated fairly. It doesn't always happen, especially in Sai Gon or Ha Noi.

As Janfa noted, things may well change. There's been a gradual realisation amongst the less well-off that the economic benefits of Doi Moi have not been distributed equitably, and I suspect this may change the perspective of some towards those they perceive as being 'wealthy tourists'.

But at the moment I'm quite proud of the way my people interact with our guests. Let's hope they continue to see the benefit in treating people fairly and with respect.

Who put you at the Palace? They need a good slapping!

If you ever return to VN, try to use 'Trails of Indochina' to book your trip. They're a Vietnamese company run by a good guy - John Nguyen - and they know the best places to stay and will give you fair rates. Usual disclaimers.

Hell, I guess it would be easier for me to book places for you. Just PM me if you decide to return!

[AtomKraft]

Another memory from our trip to Viet Nam was leaving the airport- at Tan Son Nat.

I could see about 5 miles down a dual carriageway, and the whole plot was completely covered by about one million motorbikes.

There were two main flows of the bikes, but alongside each 'correct' flow of bikes, was a large flow going against the current including riding on the pavement, against the traffic.

I though 'damn- I got my kids here'.

I think it was culture shock.

HJ

Thanks for your kind invitation. It would be my privilege to accept it.

I'm leaving the UK soon, for India- but I hope to re-visit Viet Nam.

As I stated earlier, I'm no communist, but having been to HCMC ( I prefer Saigon) and central Viet Nam, it would be great to see Ha Noi.

I will never forget seeing photographs of mutated people in the War Remnants museum in HCMC. And neither would anyone else.

I photographed the pictures, but would shy from showing it here.

[AtomKraft]

HJ

Treated fairly?
I was treated like an honoured guest, like a lost son- by people I had never met.
For example- I'm a plane spotter- (and a pilot!) I met a man called Kane Hoshi, and he took me all over Saigon on his m/c looking at aircraft.

I remember, one moment as we looked over the wall at TSN, an ancient women saw me and scurried into her house, emerging after a minute with a 10 year old.
She smiled and international sign language did the rest. She was showing the kid what an American looked like (I'm Scottish).

There were kind looks and the two fingered peace sign from many a pillion passenger.

It was truly a humbling experience, and I'm so glad that as Brits, our PM kept us out of a desperately ill-founded campaign

[hanoijane]

OK, WHEN you return we really have to get you on a bike and into the traffic. It's a complete giggle. Sure, it looks scary, but once you follow the basic principle of only worrying about what's directly in front of you, it all makes sense.

You never use your mirrors and you can change lane or direction whenever you choose, 'cos it's the responsibility of those behind you to avoid you. Of course, you're doing the same for those in front of you.

The random traffic flows aren't too bad either. Just forget the idea that it's wrong for people to be coming towards you in your lane. Move gently out of their way and smile. Works every time.

If you think the bikes are bad now about five years ago there were major drain replacement works in HCMC along the airport road you mention, and you spent most of you day driving on the pavements 'cos the roads were blocked. It was utter hell. I lived in Cuu Long just outside Tan Son Nhat at the time and the drive into town (about 5k) took one hour and left me a sweaty wreck.

Ha Noi is cool. Good aviation museum. B52 remains in the lake. The legendary turtle. HCM's resting place. Tons of stuff to see. Avoid the height of summer, it's horribly sticky. Different atmosphere from Sai Gon, much more formal and severe. Plus they speak strangely. I'm from Hue, so I think everyone outside of Hue speaks strangely.

Yes. Come. You'll have fun. Can't promise anything, but I may be able to get you up close and personal with a MIG/miG/Mig/MiG/whatever. Then we could send the pics to Michael, and he could tell us how many innocent capitalists it had beaten to death...

[AtomKraft]

In Hoi An, a woman was selling drinks.

It was a mix of pieces of gelatine, what looked like fish eggs and a liquid that looked like cold milky coffee.
I bought one and choked it down.

I had one for my big daughter, Lou- but she refused to drink it. So I drank some of hers.

The old women insisted on refilling both and I had to drink the lot.

Strangely refreshing....

[AtomKraft]

Jane, our posts are crossing a bit, but your message is getting through.

Crossing the road in Saigon, a girl told us 'don't run- you'll get hit- walk into the traffic slowly, they'll avoid you'.

Was true.

Isn't the only rule 'don't crash into someone in front of you'?

Never been anywhere lik it, and loved it.

We were in a book shop, I think in Hoi An, my wife was reading and tears were on her cheeks.

She was reading about how a gentle people came under the guns of .......ach.

The character in the book was called 'second harvest'.

A gentle people, I thought.

[AtomKraft]

Met a girl called, well I cant spell it, but it sounded like 'Nya'

She said- 'ah Budda' ie, my fat belly.

If we ever meet, I'll tell you the story- she was (is) a lovely innocent, but wily, girl. Just lovely.

Sexy too!

[AtomKraft]

Saigon Palace.

Clearly a French building.

OK, so the roof leaks a bit- we never got wet.

I liked their advice. 'Dine in-its good value'

Boy, how true. Unlimited red wine, fantastic exotic fruit (what the heck is Dragon Fruit) and wall to wall yummie stuff.

I had sweet and sour chicken- but an entire chicken head was one of the chunks. I didn't actually eat it.

Was still great fun though.