MODERATION
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As one who qualifies as a KOS retired aircrew chappie I would hate to become the class monitor for this forum, if it can't self monitor then it will die from lack of value because the ones who have anything worthwhile to say will go somewhere else. I find it a most interesting forum and one that brings a little of the camaraderie that was a fine part of my time in the service. Beagle, the clue is in the second sentence of my previous, if still confused, perhaps he who must be obeyed (of a sepentine character) might find it a clue?
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kbf1:
The problem with the yellow card method is that it is totally irrelevent in an open forum. Even if thrown off the board, the miscreant could easily log in again with a new ident a few minutes later. Yellow cards only work on closed conferences and I don't believe that excluding people is in our best interests.
If I understand things correctly here, the originator of a thread can delete that entire thread if required. Why not leave it up to the originators then? If you originate a thread which you believe has degenerated into a public slanging match, why not ask for cool heads or pull the thread?
The problem with the yellow card method is that it is totally irrelevent in an open forum. Even if thrown off the board, the miscreant could easily log in again with a new ident a few minutes later. Yellow cards only work on closed conferences and I don't believe that excluding people is in our best interests.
If I understand things correctly here, the originator of a thread can delete that entire thread if required. Why not leave it up to the originators then? If you originate a thread which you believe has degenerated into a public slanging match, why not ask for cool heads or pull the thread?
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Being the original poster of the Women on the Front Line thread. Although I acknowledge there's a bit of slanging going on in there, I'm reluctant to delete it. It's still an on-going discussion further afield than PPRUNE.
People who rip others apart with their replies are just discrediting themselves should they have something serious to say on another thread.
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BEagle!
Glad to see that you have recovered from some of your dubious posts over the last couple of months....post Chrimbo is always a drag!
I think you did a reality check yourself mate on a couple of those threads that weren't funny to be honest and added nothing to the thread at all.
I always tap away, normally after 8 pints or given a tip off at work that there is an interesting thread, imagining that I am in a bar or crew room. If we would banter at the bar to someones face, then tap away and let the pi$$ taking continue. If you wouldn't say it in the bar or in the crew room and it it is of no benefit to anybody , you are only satisfying your own private rant/drip.
There has been some really embarrassing stuff...come on, lets just look back over the threads to see the drivell, and nearly all of us have been sucked in to the mud slinging that sees humour replaced by abuse.
You name a military establishment, with aircrew, and PPRUNE is well known and read. If WE type rubbish, then are views...(and some of them are so spot on that so many problems could be solved by the implementation from the relevant desk)....will be viewed as rubbish, and this site will be ridiculed and discarded as a joke in which little kids take the mickey out of each other.
Well done BEagle. I honestly had not noticed the slippery slope that we were all getting ourselves into. I will collect my £5 for blowing sunshine out of your hoop at the next Joint happy hour.....
I agree policing is a dirty word, but pausing before typing isn't.
Cheers...warm fuzzy feeling
[This message has been edited by JHC (edited 20 February 2001).]
Glad to see that you have recovered from some of your dubious posts over the last couple of months....post Chrimbo is always a drag!
I think you did a reality check yourself mate on a couple of those threads that weren't funny to be honest and added nothing to the thread at all.
I always tap away, normally after 8 pints or given a tip off at work that there is an interesting thread, imagining that I am in a bar or crew room. If we would banter at the bar to someones face, then tap away and let the pi$$ taking continue. If you wouldn't say it in the bar or in the crew room and it it is of no benefit to anybody , you are only satisfying your own private rant/drip.
There has been some really embarrassing stuff...come on, lets just look back over the threads to see the drivell, and nearly all of us have been sucked in to the mud slinging that sees humour replaced by abuse.
You name a military establishment, with aircrew, and PPRUNE is well known and read. If WE type rubbish, then are views...(and some of them are so spot on that so many problems could be solved by the implementation from the relevant desk)....will be viewed as rubbish, and this site will be ridiculed and discarded as a joke in which little kids take the mickey out of each other.
Well done BEagle. I honestly had not noticed the slippery slope that we were all getting ourselves into. I will collect my £5 for blowing sunshine out of your hoop at the next Joint happy hour.....
I agree policing is a dirty word, but pausing before typing isn't.
Cheers...warm fuzzy feeling
[This message has been edited by JHC (edited 20 February 2001).]
Guest
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe BEagle is suggesting that we have a moderator.
It is difficult to suggest that we narrow down the scope of the threads or discussions; and I certainly don't feel that we should limit the forum to aircrew. That would lead to an insular and self-centred field of debate. The threads can only be enriched by a diversity of opinion.
However, I do get the feeling that some people using this forum enjoy being deliberately obtuse. Many of the topics discussed are, by their very nature, emotive. It is wrong to attempt to disguise ill feeling in the form of 'banter'. This reveals a lack of character on the behalf of the protagonist.
I always relish informed and, if necessary, heated debate. We should all be able to put forward our perspectives in a reasoned and positive manner. Moreover, we are (most of us anyway) military personnel. If we cannot show some self-discipline then who can?
[This message has been edited by Adastral (edited 20 February 2001).]
It is difficult to suggest that we narrow down the scope of the threads or discussions; and I certainly don't feel that we should limit the forum to aircrew. That would lead to an insular and self-centred field of debate. The threads can only be enriched by a diversity of opinion.
However, I do get the feeling that some people using this forum enjoy being deliberately obtuse. Many of the topics discussed are, by their very nature, emotive. It is wrong to attempt to disguise ill feeling in the form of 'banter'. This reveals a lack of character on the behalf of the protagonist.
I always relish informed and, if necessary, heated debate. We should all be able to put forward our perspectives in a reasoned and positive manner. Moreover, we are (most of us anyway) military personnel. If we cannot show some self-discipline then who can?
[This message has been edited by Adastral (edited 20 February 2001).]
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opso: re your bit about they could log in under a new name: I believe this is not possible if the user is blocked based on their 'IP' number, which does not allow you to get in from that actual connection again. Which unfortunately blocks EVERYBODY who is in the same network if on a computer of a large organisation.
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A large organisation will have fixed IP addresses - oooh, let's say the MOD offices.
For the majority of us mere mortals who connect through an ISP there are huge number of IP addresses. Entirely a matter of luck which one you get any time you log on.
We have a piece of code written by the deeply splendid and worthwhile Crashdive which, as an example, shows that a single IP address with a popular UK ISP has been used by several hundred PPRuNers to make posts on this site over the years.
However, due to the huge number of available addresses even the most prolific of posters never get their name linked to a single address in a statistically valid way. I think the most we've ever seen was Crashdive with 13 out of many hundreds of his posts appearing at one IP address. We strongly suspect that was due to him using a specialist ISDN line to his ISP.
Regards from the Towers
Rob Lloyd
[email protected]
For the majority of us mere mortals who connect through an ISP there are huge number of IP addresses. Entirely a matter of luck which one you get any time you log on.
We have a piece of code written by the deeply splendid and worthwhile Crashdive which, as an example, shows that a single IP address with a popular UK ISP has been used by several hundred PPRuNers to make posts on this site over the years.
However, due to the huge number of available addresses even the most prolific of posters never get their name linked to a single address in a statistically valid way. I think the most we've ever seen was Crashdive with 13 out of many hundreds of his posts appearing at one IP address. We strongly suspect that was due to him using a specialist ISDN line to his ISP.
Regards from the Towers
Rob Lloyd
[email protected]
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Interesting information from the Towers; let's just hope the unscrupulous don't use it to sling mud and insults from behind a veil of assumed anonymity!!
And we do NOT need an enforced MoD-erator for the Mil thread whilst self-moderation proves effective, in my view.
And we do NOT need an enforced MoD-erator for the Mil thread whilst self-moderation proves effective, in my view.
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While I accept the point that a yellow card may be impossible to enforce due to IP address problems, I still think there is merit in having a set of guidelines drawn up specific to this forum. That would only be like having FAQs which serve the same purpose, but without the Qs. Lets say it is like a set of mess rules that are posted on the back of every door of every mess I have ever stayed in. This would serve the purpose of setting the standards by which we monitor ourselves. It also acts as a guide to anyone brave enough to come into this forum and post who has no service history or background. I would suggest that any guidelines be agreed by the majority of regular posters on this forum and once agreed given to Danny with a request to post a link at the top of the page so that they can be viewed.
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The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the Devil's own Satanic HERD!
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The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the Devil's own Satanic HERD!
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To take kbf1's suggestion one step further could I suggest we ban the wearing jeans on this forum? Also could I suggest that flying suits be banned from public rooms on this forum after 1900hrs?
Seriously though - if you put up rules and guidelines there are people out there who will break them just cos they are there. It's the Internet unfortunately.
Right, I'm off back to Napster to download another album..
Self-moderation is the answer. Don't be reeled in by all the muppets who come on here looking to do some winding up. At the same time can we give the endless bitching about money a rest? Lack of flying, no spares, no future yes. Mo' money mo' money no. Not good PR for a start.
PS. I'm sure I asked about moderation about a year ago....ho hum.
Seriously though - if you put up rules and guidelines there are people out there who will break them just cos they are there. It's the Internet unfortunately.
Right, I'm off back to Napster to download another album..
Self-moderation is the answer. Don't be reeled in by all the muppets who come on here looking to do some winding up. At the same time can we give the endless bitching about money a rest? Lack of flying, no spares, no future yes. Mo' money mo' money no. Not good PR for a start.
PS. I'm sure I asked about moderation about a year ago....ho hum.
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Moderation is ok in well, moderation. But some of the postsing here are blatent brown nosing (1392 due etc).
My boss knows my PPrune identity etc what a licker.
I think that anyone who is switched on will realise that it is career suicide to criticise in the armed forces. You either put up or shut up and thus the whole crooked and crap system is perpetuated.
I think the RAF Pol thing got a bit of hand but does it really matter?
What will the civvies think? What do you want them to think: Truth or propaganda?
My boss knows my PPrune identity etc what a licker.
I think that anyone who is switched on will realise that it is career suicide to criticise in the armed forces. You either put up or shut up and thus the whole crooked and crap system is perpetuated.
I think the RAF Pol thing got a bit of hand but does it really matter?
What will the civvies think? What do you want them to think: Truth or propaganda?
Guest
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'Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.'
- - Albert Einstein
Reluctant as I am to intrude again on the Military Pilots' Forum, I would like to add my support to the sentiments expressed by BEagle and others.
But ,of course, censorship is unacceptable and freedom of speech is fundamental to our national spirit. After all, is that not what we are in the services to protect?
We must, however, be mindful that, in addition to clumsy journos, there are enemies of democracy at work on the internet.
Our friends across the water (and further afield) employ people on a full-time basis to spread despondency on military internet forums, such as this one. And they are also trying to hack into your pc while you surf this site. So, for God's sake, install a hacker protection system. There are plenty of free downloads available.
I am sure most of you know this already, but a timely reminder can do no harm.
With Good Wishes
Broadsword***
- - Albert Einstein
Reluctant as I am to intrude again on the Military Pilots' Forum, I would like to add my support to the sentiments expressed by BEagle and others.
But ,of course, censorship is unacceptable and freedom of speech is fundamental to our national spirit. After all, is that not what we are in the services to protect?
We must, however, be mindful that, in addition to clumsy journos, there are enemies of democracy at work on the internet.
Our friends across the water (and further afield) employ people on a full-time basis to spread despondency on military internet forums, such as this one. And they are also trying to hack into your pc while you surf this site. So, for God's sake, install a hacker protection system. There are plenty of free downloads available.
I am sure most of you know this already, but a timely reminder can do no harm.
With Good Wishes
Broadsword***
Guest
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Broadsword*** - we're British, we can spread our own despair, TVM. If anyone tried that trick on us we'd turn the despair back on them, moderator or not.
If by 'our friends over the water' you mean Paddy - remember none of them will get a 50K retention bonus. That'll make them despair....
Personally I don't think that moderation is necessary on this forum. The odd wind up now and then never hurt anybody and most of the viewing public who find their way here know that not everything should be read literally. At the end of the day, if you don't like somebody's comments ignore them.
If by 'our friends over the water' you mean Paddy - remember none of them will get a 50K retention bonus. That'll make them despair....
Personally I don't think that moderation is necessary on this forum. The odd wind up now and then never hurt anybody and most of the viewing public who find their way here know that not everything should be read literally. At the end of the day, if you don't like somebody's comments ignore them.
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Broadsword***
Welcome back, old boy!
I don't think that anyone foreign powers or terrorist organisations will manage to force a military uprising by posting yet another whinge/gripe/moan on PPrune.
BEagle - Agree with the sentiment. Self-moderation is the only answer. But some people will always fly off the handle the minute that somebody dares to have an opposing view - especially on a Friday night! Just ignore them until they go away (fall asleep dribbling!)
Most of the banter is funny, but most of the offensive drivel comes from those who have not been around long enough to understand the concept.
Anyway, thats enough blaaaa.
Stopstart,
Whilst we are at it, could everybody please wear socks with their shoes, and no drinking beer out of bottles please!
[This message has been edited by Ed Winchester (edited 23 February 2001).]
Welcome back, old boy!
I don't think that anyone foreign powers or terrorist organisations will manage to force a military uprising by posting yet another whinge/gripe/moan on PPrune.
BEagle - Agree with the sentiment. Self-moderation is the only answer. But some people will always fly off the handle the minute that somebody dares to have an opposing view - especially on a Friday night! Just ignore them until they go away (fall asleep dribbling!)
Most of the banter is funny, but most of the offensive drivel comes from those who have not been around long enough to understand the concept.
Anyway, thats enough blaaaa.
Stopstart,
Whilst we are at it, could everybody please wear socks with their shoes, and no drinking beer out of bottles please!
[This message has been edited by Ed Winchester (edited 23 February 2001).]
Guest
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Broadsword***,
"Freedom of speech is fundamental to our national spirit"?
Is it? Is it really?
"After all, is that not what we are in the services to protect"?
No, it is not!
There is no enshrined freedom of speech in this country. I don't know if you are commissioned or not, if you are then you know what you are sworn to do and who you are sworn to do it for. I remember no mention of democracy or freedom of speech in my commissioning shindig.
"Enemies of democracy at work on the internet"?
This worries me, this country has a tradition of suppressing liberties and freedoms in order to "protect" the people from percieved "threats".
After all, it was Douglas Jay who said in the House of Lords:
"The gentleman in Whitehall really does know better what is good for the people than the people know themselves."
When did he say this, 1654? 1708?, 1813?
No, 1947!!
The likes of people like him operate via the likes of people like you.
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If the suit fits.........
"Freedom of speech is fundamental to our national spirit"?
Is it? Is it really?
"After all, is that not what we are in the services to protect"?
No, it is not!
There is no enshrined freedom of speech in this country. I don't know if you are commissioned or not, if you are then you know what you are sworn to do and who you are sworn to do it for. I remember no mention of democracy or freedom of speech in my commissioning shindig.
"Enemies of democracy at work on the internet"?
This worries me, this country has a tradition of suppressing liberties and freedoms in order to "protect" the people from percieved "threats".
After all, it was Douglas Jay who said in the House of Lords:
"The gentleman in Whitehall really does know better what is good for the people than the people know themselves."
When did he say this, 1654? 1708?, 1813?
No, 1947!!
The likes of people like him operate via the likes of people like you.
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If the suit fits.........