Private Eye - Mil Housing and the Mil Covenant
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Been wanting an excuse to post this...
Dad's RAF photos from the 1950's
Scroll down past the High Speed launches and the answer is there... How the RAF used to ermmmm do it.
Dad's RAF photos from the 1950's
Scroll down past the High Speed launches and the answer is there... How the RAF used to ermmmm do it.
PN - Put politely, I suspect you may be out of date on your briefings. I can tell you as someone who has served as CS, and in uniform, that the Military transfer and housing and allowance system is far, far more generous than the CS one.
In a nutshell, under the current system, then unless you are a member of a development scheme ( under 400 people out of 83000 at present), or unless you are in the Redeployment Pool (under a couple of thousand last time I looked), then no transfer allowances are usually offered, no assistance with second homes is provided, and all job moves are out of the CS's own pocket. If you harbour a realistic hope of a career, then expect to move jobs or locations at least every 2-3 years and expect zero financial assistance with this. This is in very sharp contrast to how Forces personnel are treated.
If I am lucky enough to warrant an allowance as a CS to run a second home on detached duty, then I can attest from personal experience a couple of years ago that the system is nowhere near as generous as you think. I was routinely a couple of hundred a month out of pocket running two homes, for the sake of career. Thats life in a pinstripe suit, and not a whinge - but please don't think that the military are all being shat upon at great height, while CS live lives of luxury in mansions - nothing could be further from the truth.
Nowadays a serviceman can live whereever he or she wants to live in the UK. They have the options of living in messes / quarters /private hirings or family home. Dont' get me wrong - I think it is vital that we provide good quality accommodation to people to enable family life, and support it where possible, but it is not a case that the serviceman has no option but to live in a quarter. There are other options - not always easy, not always convenient, but that is the same for anyone who has to work away from the location that they chose to make their proper home.
I have huge reserves of sympathy for forces families and think it is vital that they are well looked after. But, I am afraid that my sympathy dries up when people try to make out that in the UK they have no choice but to live in MOD accommodation. There are other options, they may not be ideal, but no one is holding a gun to your head and saying 'live here or else'. Of course commuting is a pain, I've heard horror stories of the BZN and Lyenham farce, and I wouldnt wish that on anyone. But long drives, annoying starts and stuff like this is unfortunately what the real world is all about.
I sometimes worry dealing with people coming out of the forces that a lot of them have gotten too used to being on the patch, or close to the office, and that they dont understand that a 45 minute - 1hr drive/train ride to work is considered normal for many people. Its a pain, its not nice, but that is what many of us do day in day out, without having a Mess, or subsidised accommodation as a fallback.
In a nutshell, under the current system, then unless you are a member of a development scheme ( under 400 people out of 83000 at present), or unless you are in the Redeployment Pool (under a couple of thousand last time I looked), then no transfer allowances are usually offered, no assistance with second homes is provided, and all job moves are out of the CS's own pocket. If you harbour a realistic hope of a career, then expect to move jobs or locations at least every 2-3 years and expect zero financial assistance with this. This is in very sharp contrast to how Forces personnel are treated.
If I am lucky enough to warrant an allowance as a CS to run a second home on detached duty, then I can attest from personal experience a couple of years ago that the system is nowhere near as generous as you think. I was routinely a couple of hundred a month out of pocket running two homes, for the sake of career. Thats life in a pinstripe suit, and not a whinge - but please don't think that the military are all being shat upon at great height, while CS live lives of luxury in mansions - nothing could be further from the truth.
Nowadays a serviceman can live whereever he or she wants to live in the UK. They have the options of living in messes / quarters /private hirings or family home. Dont' get me wrong - I think it is vital that we provide good quality accommodation to people to enable family life, and support it where possible, but it is not a case that the serviceman has no option but to live in a quarter. There are other options - not always easy, not always convenient, but that is the same for anyone who has to work away from the location that they chose to make their proper home.
I have huge reserves of sympathy for forces families and think it is vital that they are well looked after. But, I am afraid that my sympathy dries up when people try to make out that in the UK they have no choice but to live in MOD accommodation. There are other options, they may not be ideal, but no one is holding a gun to your head and saying 'live here or else'. Of course commuting is a pain, I've heard horror stories of the BZN and Lyenham farce, and I wouldnt wish that on anyone. But long drives, annoying starts and stuff like this is unfortunately what the real world is all about.
I sometimes worry dealing with people coming out of the forces that a lot of them have gotten too used to being on the patch, or close to the office, and that they dont understand that a 45 minute - 1hr drive/train ride to work is considered normal for many people. Its a pain, its not nice, but that is what many of us do day in day out, without having a Mess, or subsidised accommodation as a fallback.
Thanks for sharing those priceless photos, NutLoose!
I wonder what became of that old trolley bus? It looked very well fitted out inside, no doubt your father's own handiwork?
That Keystone Cops moment under the railway bridge (which sounds very much like the A43 bridge under the LMS main line in Kettering - it has a 13ft height limit to this day!) must have been priceless! A good thing that the roads were rather less busy back then!
I wonder what became of that old trolley bus? It looked very well fitted out inside, no doubt your father's own handiwork?
That Keystone Cops moment under the railway bridge (which sounds very much like the A43 bridge under the LMS main line in Kettering - it has a 13ft height limit to this day!) must have been priceless! A good thing that the roads were rather less busy back then!
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I found the site ages ago and it made me smile then, not my site, but was just showing things are never as bad as the seem today, sorry if my post Inferred it was mine 
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New Threat to FSA
That's a morale booster in these difficult times
Married soldiers living in Army accommodation will be forced out of their homes under cost-cutting proposals being considered by the Ministry of Defence.
The move, which would lead to thousands of people from the Armed Forces being driven into the commercial property market, is part of a plan to reduce Services accommodation under a “New Employment Model”.
It indicates a potential shift away from the tradition of encouraging soldiers to move with ease around the country and overseas with their spouses and children.
Subsidised military housing for those with families is a career-long entitlement and has been referred to as a “staunch pillar” of the military covenant that the coalition has pledged to uphold. The MoD is discussing ending the right to a home after eight years of service.
One former head of the Army said that he understood the need to reduce the bill for accommodation, but that additional funds must be made available to buy or rent private property with ease.
If not, the MoD risked creating a system of “weekly boarders”. “It is not the right way to be. We have enough forced separation through deployment and training exercises,” General Lord Dannatt said.
Morale in the Armed Forces is already low after thousands of redundancies.
Married soldiers living in Army accommodation will be forced out of their homes under cost-cutting proposals being considered by the Ministry of Defence.
The move, which would lead to thousands of people from the Armed Forces being driven into the commercial property market, is part of a plan to reduce Services accommodation under a “New Employment Model”.
It indicates a potential shift away from the tradition of encouraging soldiers to move with ease around the country and overseas with their spouses and children.
Subsidised military housing for those with families is a career-long entitlement and has been referred to as a “staunch pillar” of the military covenant that the coalition has pledged to uphold. The MoD is discussing ending the right to a home after eight years of service.
One former head of the Army said that he understood the need to reduce the bill for accommodation, but that additional funds must be made available to buy or rent private property with ease.
If not, the MoD risked creating a system of “weekly boarders”. “It is not the right way to be. We have enough forced separation through deployment and training exercises,” General Lord Dannatt said.
Morale in the Armed Forces is already low after thousands of redundancies.
Last edited by A2QFI; 27th Feb 2012 at 09:45.
Dad's RAF photos from the 1950s
NL - I am frequently astounded by new discoveries on the web. Thank you for sharing that one. It's priceless.
My father served in the RAF and won the war. He was sent to India immediately after his training as a radio/radar mechanic and the Japanese surrendered three days later. However, they left him out there for another two years just to make certain.
My father served in the RAF and won the war. He was sent to India immediately after his training as a radio/radar mechanic and the Japanese surrendered three days later. However, they left him out there for another two years just to make certain.
It was great to follow that link - great images.
I've also had a good laugh at some of the anal-retentive policies that were applied to housing in times gone by. I was shocked, much, much more recently when I visited a friend of mine serving on an ISODET in Germany. There are no quarters locally so properties are rented via the German Authorities ('hirings') and UK standards are then applied - sort of. A fellow officer was moved into a 6 bedroomed house, after many months of waiting. During the Move In ('March In' in old currency), the Housing Officer insisted that the landlord lock off two of the bedrooms! Another officer was moved into a very nice hiring after 13 months in temporary accommodation, and the Housing Officer insisted that the garden pond (which was fenced) was filled in and the sauna was disconnected, even though the occupant had agreed to accept the risks and understood it could cost more to run.
Bonkers.
I've also had a good laugh at some of the anal-retentive policies that were applied to housing in times gone by. I was shocked, much, much more recently when I visited a friend of mine serving on an ISODET in Germany. There are no quarters locally so properties are rented via the German Authorities ('hirings') and UK standards are then applied - sort of. A fellow officer was moved into a 6 bedroomed house, after many months of waiting. During the Move In ('March In' in old currency), the Housing Officer insisted that the landlord lock off two of the bedrooms! Another officer was moved into a very nice hiring after 13 months in temporary accommodation, and the Housing Officer insisted that the garden pond (which was fenced) was filled in and the sauna was disconnected, even though the occupant had agreed to accept the risks and understood it could cost more to run.
Bonkers.
A2QFI,
Could not read your full link as I am not a subscriber but I got the jist. It is visibility of stuff like this that led me to get out last year. The MoD is skint. More is to come. I will be interested to see what happens when the SFA contract comes up for renewal. Wait until the MoD sells off your mess and gets the likes of Holiday Inn to provide Single Living accomodation at commercial prices.
It is in their interests to :
1. Force service personnel into their own homes. This is why every attitude survey contains the question 'would you like to own your own home?' This then gives them the ammunition to justify policies that go against providing service accomodation. Well of course I would like to own my own home but, not at any expense!
2. Encourage people to leave of their own volition, thereby avoiding the costs of redundancy etc.
Could not read your full link as I am not a subscriber but I got the jist. It is visibility of stuff like this that led me to get out last year. The MoD is skint. More is to come. I will be interested to see what happens when the SFA contract comes up for renewal. Wait until the MoD sells off your mess and gets the likes of Holiday Inn to provide Single Living accomodation at commercial prices.
It is in their interests to :
1. Force service personnel into their own homes. This is why every attitude survey contains the question 'would you like to own your own home?' This then gives them the ammunition to justify policies that go against providing service accomodation. Well of course I would like to own my own home but, not at any expense!
2. Encourage people to leave of their own volition, thereby avoiding the costs of redundancy etc.
A2, Widger,
I couldn't see it all either, but heard it on the Today Programme this morning. I agree with all you both say and I also go back to what I've been saying for 10 years or more, the whole SFA deal is a disgrace; the tax-payer and service families are all being ripped-off; it's shabby and deceitful. In thruth, this isn't really news, just another episode in a long-running, shameful series of moves that serve to save Government money at the serviceman's expense whilst lining the pocket of Annington Homes!
I couldn't see it all either, but heard it on the Today Programme this morning. I agree with all you both say and I also go back to what I've been saying for 10 years or more, the whole SFA deal is a disgrace; the tax-payer and service families are all being ripped-off; it's shabby and deceitful. In thruth, this isn't really news, just another episode in a long-running, shameful series of moves that serve to save Government money at the serviceman's expense whilst lining the pocket of Annington Homes!
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The idea of making people live in their own accomodation is a nice idea in theory and might actually work if the constant mis-management of MoD didn't lead to continual reorganisation and the resulting moves. How many places have had millions wasted on them only to close shortly afterwards.
I remember many years ago on IOT, my flight did a brief for a design of the RAF from a blank sheet of paper and worked out that locating everyone in one place at an RAF supertown would pay for itself with the money saved on T&S/ Re-location. I also remember being told by the DS what a stupid idea we had.
Roll forward 15 years and here we are. Sadly, change will continue in such a way that the politicians will prevent decent forward planning and the salami slicing will continue.
I feel scared for those that are left and hope the situation improves sometime soon.
I remember many years ago on IOT, my flight did a brief for a design of the RAF from a blank sheet of paper and worked out that locating everyone in one place at an RAF supertown would pay for itself with the money saved on T&S/ Re-location. I also remember being told by the DS what a stupid idea we had.
Roll forward 15 years and here we are. Sadly, change will continue in such a way that the politicians will prevent decent forward planning and the salami slicing will continue.
I feel scared for those that are left and hope the situation improves sometime soon.
A pilot with the Armée de l'Air near here lives on a large house boat which he and his wife run as a B&B. Any time he is posted they just move the boat to the closest suitable river location to his new base and change the details on their booking site.
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Sale of Military Land
One has to wonder what has happened to the money raised by the sale of Bracknell Staff College site, Chelsea Barracks and the, presumably, forthcoming disposal of the St John's Wood Barracks used by a cavalry unit (RHA).
Probably funding IVF for illegal immigrant lesbians, inter alia; safe bet the military budget hasn't seen any of it!
Probably funding IVF for illegal immigrant lesbians, inter alia; safe bet the military budget hasn't seen any of it!
Last edited by A2QFI; 27th Feb 2012 at 12:41.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
A navigator colleague of mine, ex-C130, did just that when at Finingley. I am sure he had the routes and potential moorings sorted out for all his likely moves.
They posted him to St Mawgan OCU and then ISK. He managed to get a posing on to Snoopy. IIRC his next posting was ASI.
The posters have a sense of humour andseem to stuff you at every turn. If you accept then that is another happy customer. If you fight you might win one round.
They posted him to St Mawgan OCU and then ISK. He managed to get a posing on to Snoopy. IIRC his next posting was ASI.
The posters have a sense of humour andseem to stuff you at every turn. If you accept then that is another happy customer. If you fight you might win one round.
