A different QRA question
Mr B, weren't they white then? 
SAM ex 15 is currently active on the Hormuz thread. Getting close to fisty cuffs there.
Thanks for the link Yellow Sun - appropriate name here! I shall read up. Probably should have done that before I opened my mouth here. Ho hum!
SAM ex 15 is currently active on the Hormuz thread. Getting close to fisty cuffs there.Thanks for the link Yellow Sun - appropriate name here! I shall read up. Probably should have done that before I opened my mouth here. Ho hum!
Those of us who were involved in the nuclear role are still a bit reticent to say much even though the weapon is declassifed nowadays. All that TS stuff, 2-man principle and need-to-know, I guess.
The theory course at a the far end of a bona jet location not far from Stamford was very interesting. Arrive and have a few beers in the OM, then onto the bus the next morning to the training site. Lots of armed coppers and pass showing, then down to business.... However, a bit of a sore head and a Ch Tech trying to explain the Pauli Exclusion principle, mass defect, mach stem effect, fission-fusion-fission reactions...all rather too much at 0830! Still the movies were really rather amusing - and as for the idea of a gold visor....
They had a fascinating museum and the difference in size between earlier weapons and the all-electric bucket of sunshine was quite astonishing!
If you were regarded as being a member of one of the better squadron crews, it was quite common to find that you were the crew who had to accept a 'shape' on exercise - then hand it over to the custodians at endex, extending the embuggerance somewhat.
Worse than the F-4 crew who delivered a centreline tank was the USAF F-4 crew who managed to make some almighty switch pigs on the range, came down the dive and pickled off a SUU 23 gun pod. This was especially unfortunate for a nuclear-assigned crew whose weapons checks had to be 100% perfect....
Courtney, I understand that, after a couple of incidents on the 80-update F-4 when some WIWOGA persuaded the front seater to fiddle with the stiff and rusty switches on the centre pedestal, the word from On High was never to touch anything except the Centre StaSel button - and only when over the sea - because the integrity of the ancient wiring could not be assured?
The theory course at a the far end of a bona jet location not far from Stamford was very interesting. Arrive and have a few beers in the OM, then onto the bus the next morning to the training site. Lots of armed coppers and pass showing, then down to business.... However, a bit of a sore head and a Ch Tech trying to explain the Pauli Exclusion principle, mass defect, mach stem effect, fission-fusion-fission reactions...all rather too much at 0830! Still the movies were really rather amusing - and as for the idea of a gold visor....
They had a fascinating museum and the difference in size between earlier weapons and the all-electric bucket of sunshine was quite astonishing!If you were regarded as being a member of one of the better squadron crews, it was quite common to find that you were the crew who had to accept a 'shape' on exercise - then hand it over to the custodians at endex, extending the embuggerance somewhat.
Worse than the F-4 crew who delivered a centreline tank was the USAF F-4 crew who managed to make some almighty switch pigs on the range, came down the dive and pickled off a SUU 23 gun pod. This was especially unfortunate for a nuclear-assigned crew whose weapons checks had to be 100% perfect....
Courtney, I understand that, after a couple of incidents on the 80-update F-4 when some WIWOGA persuaded the front seater to fiddle with the stiff and rusty switches on the centre pedestal, the word from On High was never to touch anything except the Centre StaSel button - and only when over the sea - because the integrity of the ancient wiring could not be assured?
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Spent many an hour trying to seal leaking fuselage tanks on Jags so they wouldn't drip or leak for the period it was on Q and believe me that wasn't easy and it was bad form to drip on them....
BEags,
Indeed that was th case. AVM On-High (double-barrelled in fact) was quite clear about that. CTR STA SEL to power up the gun and touch nothing else. Diagram below, left rotary switch was the offending article. With that at OFF, none of the other bombing switches did much. It was also wire-locked so that stupid pilots couldn't fiddle with it and accidentally select SPL WPN (whatever that meant). Although, once when I was checking that the wire was intact (
) I did find that the ends of the wires were just stuffed back through the holes. Almost as if someone had been playing with it. Apparently, most of them were like that! Tut! What were those young pilots like?
If you don't want someone to mess with something, the worst thing you can do is tell them not to mess with it!
Indeed that was th case. AVM On-High (double-barrelled in fact) was quite clear about that. CTR STA SEL to power up the gun and touch nothing else. Diagram below, left rotary switch was the offending article. With that at OFF, none of the other bombing switches did much. It was also wire-locked so that stupid pilots couldn't fiddle with it and accidentally select SPL WPN (whatever that meant). Although, once when I was checking that the wire was intact (
) I did find that the ends of the wires were just stuffed back through the holes. Almost as if someone had been playing with it. Apparently, most of them were like that! Tut! What were those young pilots like?If you don't want someone to mess with something, the worst thing you can do is tell them not to mess with it!
'SPL WPN' is huggy-fluffy spam-speak for 'Special Weapon', a.k.a. 'Hydrogen Bomb'....
Moving some of those switches could, I understand, create steering cues on the HSI, ADI and even the LCOSS. Nasty mud-moving stuff, not the sort of thing with which any self-respecting air defence mate would wish to become involved.
Moving some of those switches could, I understand, create steering cues on the HSI, ADI and even the LCOSS. Nasty mud-moving stuff, not the sort of thing with which any self-respecting air defence mate would wish to become involved.
BEags,
No! It can't be. I always thought it was for fireworks or some display stuff. Hydrogen bombs were OK in for Peter Sellers, but not me.
As for the LCOSS and stearing information, I just left it all in PRIM/TCN so that all the dials made sense to a simple air defender. Anything else made it all go crazy. No one ever knew what all the other stuff did. It was just a MacAir sales ploy!
No! It can't be. I always thought it was for fireworks or some display stuff. Hydrogen bombs were OK in for Peter Sellers, but not me.
As for the LCOSS and stearing information, I just left it all in PRIM/TCN so that all the dials made sense to a simple air defender. Anything else made it all go crazy. No one ever knew what all the other stuff did. It was just a MacAir sales ploy!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The original colours were Green for the trial 505 rounds which were essentially instrumented packages to test the weapon in a live environment, White for the operational round and a very pleasant dark blue for the drill round.
I suspect the change of colour from White to Green for the operational round occurred at the same time as they were carried externally. The original white was to reduce heat effects should the weapon be exposed to a friendly burst after release.
I suspect the change of colour from White to Green for the operational round occurred at the same time as they were carried externally. The original white was to reduce heat effects should the weapon be exposed to a friendly burst after release.
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Buttons not for pushing and QRA.....
Never used on the Shackleton was the facility to put the APS-20 radar into sector scan - apparently it weakened the bearings in the scanner and spares were hard to come by.
Come a QRA sortie and the crew were having difficulty picking up the contacts (nothing new there) until the TACO has the bright idea of putting the radar into sector scan - after all, it was an "operational sortie" so the FOB did not apply. Imagine the poor Russian ESM operator sitting in his Bear D. He will have spent years listening to 300 PRF at 6 RPM going through his headset - suddenly it changes to sector scan. The radios suddenly light up as a long conversation goes out to the other Bear. Shack crew realises what has happened and back to 360 degree scan after a minute or so.
I just thought that I'd mention this excitement in our QRA missions. Nothing like passing your latest off task as an hour or so into the future with QRA and Tansor well on the way home, us with a 3 hour transit back to Lossie and asking the Master Controller at Buchan for a SITREP: "Nothing West of 30 East". "Roger, my PLE is in nnn minutes and request instructions". "Remain on station" - they never could get to grips that by the time any more Q came around the corner then we would already be off station for fuel! The amount of extra high octane petrol that was burnt for no reason while looking into empty airspace!
Never used on the Shackleton was the facility to put the APS-20 radar into sector scan - apparently it weakened the bearings in the scanner and spares were hard to come by.
Come a QRA sortie and the crew were having difficulty picking up the contacts (nothing new there) until the TACO has the bright idea of putting the radar into sector scan - after all, it was an "operational sortie" so the FOB did not apply. Imagine the poor Russian ESM operator sitting in his Bear D. He will have spent years listening to 300 PRF at 6 RPM going through his headset - suddenly it changes to sector scan. The radios suddenly light up as a long conversation goes out to the other Bear. Shack crew realises what has happened and back to 360 degree scan after a minute or so.
I just thought that I'd mention this excitement in our QRA missions. Nothing like passing your latest off task as an hour or so into the future with QRA and Tansor well on the way home, us with a 3 hour transit back to Lossie and asking the Master Controller at Buchan for a SITREP: "Nothing West of 30 East". "Roger, my PLE is in nnn minutes and request instructions". "Remain on station" - they never could get to grips that by the time any more Q came around the corner then we would already be off station for fuel! The amount of extra high octane petrol that was burnt for no reason while looking into empty airspace!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Something I never knew at the time but there were never enough WE177 to go around.
We always thought it a waste of the Vulcan bomb bay that we carried only one but I have since been told that even one was too many for all.
At Waddo there were 24 aircraft with another 24 at Scampton and 16 in Cyprus - 64 - but there were only ever 53 B models and one of those was withdrawn froms service leaving 52. As one of the Scampton sqns was converted to the MRR role the requirement would have dropped to 56 but even that was more than we had bombs for. I have been told that the shortfall was made up by issuing a few A models to Cyprus.
We always thought it a waste of the Vulcan bomb bay that we carried only one but I have since been told that even one was too many for all.
At Waddo there were 24 aircraft with another 24 at Scampton and 16 in Cyprus - 64 - but there were only ever 53 B models and one of those was withdrawn froms service leaving 52. As one of the Scampton sqns was converted to the MRR role the requirement would have dropped to 56 but even that was more than we had bombs for. I have been told that the shortfall was made up by issuing a few A models to Cyprus.
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Apparently the shortfall was deliberate; the expected rate of transition to nuclear warfare was expected to result in significant aircraft losses before authority to load was given.
Apparently the shortfall was deliberate; the expected rate of transition to nuclear warfare was expected to result in significant aircraft losses before authority to load was given.
YS
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Never had Hessian curtains around the Jaguar like the Tornado, knowing the RAF, it must have utilised a lot of broom handles and bodge tape to produce them.
The button
Wow.
So in the F4 - to `deploy' some instant sunshine - one just selected SPCL WPN on that rotary knob and then what - did you pull a trigger type switch on the stick?
Did both WSO and pilot have to do so at the same time - i.e. two man rule as in silos and submarines - or could either crew member release the payload independently?
Or is this all still Beadwindow material...even now?
So in the F4 - to `deploy' some instant sunshine - one just selected SPCL WPN on that rotary knob and then what - did you pull a trigger type switch on the stick?
Did both WSO and pilot have to do so at the same time - i.e. two man rule as in silos and submarines - or could either crew member release the payload independently?
Or is this all still Beadwindow material...even now?
Very interesting reading here. I started life at Marham when the Valiant still had a QRA function, progressed through Victor/Blue Steel and finishing on Vulcans, Akkers and Scampton.
I was always curious about the Nimrod nuclear role, also, was there a plan B where the Nimrod could have taken over the V force target list should the V force have fallen short.
Anyone care to comment ?
I was always curious about the Nimrod nuclear role, also, was there a plan B where the Nimrod could have taken over the V force target list should the V force have fallen short.
Anyone care to comment ?
I was always curious about the Nimrod nuclear role, also, was there a plan B where the Nimrod could have taken over the V force target list should the V force have fallen short.
The Nimrod nuclear role was totally different in concept from the other RAF strike operations. For one thing there was no QRA element in it; this could cause WST a few conceptual problems! There were no pre-planned targets; for obvious reasons; and the crew had a list of stringent criteria satisfy; beyond the normal switchery; before releasing a weapon. It was all quite different from the relative simplicity of overland strike operations. The Buccaneer maritime role was quite different again.
YS
Last edited by Yellow Sun; 5th Jan 2012 at 08:11.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In a different place I was privvy to the numbers of B57s. I can't comment on numbers except to say that around that time SACEUR had 7,000 weapons at his disposal.