Watchkeeper
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Watchkeeper
Ares: Watchkeeper Due in Afghanistan This Year
The U.K. Ministry of Defense expects to deploy the Watchkeeper unmanned aircraft to Afghanistan already this year, according to Peter Luff, the defense minister for equipment.
That effectively means that the unmanned aircraft -- an upgraded version of the Elbit Hermes 450 in development through a joint venture of Thales and Elbit -- will deploy almost immediately after being first fielded. The handover to users is not expected itself until around the end of the year.
Watchkeeper is still in development and, after its first flight last year, continues to undergo trials at the UAV test range at Parc Aberporth in Wales.
Industry officials say that after some start-up problems that slowed development and have forced a schedule adjustment, those issues have been overcome and the program is tracking to its new schedule. The program was recently called before the MOD's newly created Projects Review Board, where big programs are being examined and can be put on notice to improve performance.
Luff puts the program cost at "just under £1 billion" -- it has been previously given as under £800 million for the planned purchase of 54 UAVs.
The U.K. Ministry of Defense expects to deploy the Watchkeeper unmanned aircraft to Afghanistan already this year, according to Peter Luff, the defense minister for equipment.
That effectively means that the unmanned aircraft -- an upgraded version of the Elbit Hermes 450 in development through a joint venture of Thales and Elbit -- will deploy almost immediately after being first fielded. The handover to users is not expected itself until around the end of the year.
Watchkeeper is still in development and, after its first flight last year, continues to undergo trials at the UAV test range at Parc Aberporth in Wales.
Industry officials say that after some start-up problems that slowed development and have forced a schedule adjustment, those issues have been overcome and the program is tracking to its new schedule. The program was recently called before the MOD's newly created Projects Review Board, where big programs are being examined and can be put on notice to improve performance.
Luff puts the program cost at "just under £1 billion" -- it has been previously given as under £800 million for the planned purchase of 54 UAVs.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Can it be weaponized?
By ANDREW CHUTER • PARIS — The British Ministry of Defence is considering proposals to fit missiles to the new Watchkeeper unmanned air system purchased for the British Army.
The Thales UK developed Watchkeeper is scheduled to be ready for operational fielding as a tactical ISTAR platform in Afghanistan at the end of the year but the MoD is already looking at where they go next with the platform.
Maj. Matt Moore, the Royal Artillery officer leading the effort to field the system, told reporters at a Le Bourget briefing that the MoD were looking at proposals to hang a high precision, low collateral damage missile of the platform. Moore said the proposal is not yet an official program, but is part of a wider look at the army’s air- and ground-based weaponization requirements on the battlefield of the future.
One of the options being looked at to arm the Watchkeeper is the new Thales lightweight multi-role missile, LMM, said company officials. The British Army recently became the launch customer for the missile in a land-based role. Some work on employing the weapon on Watchkeeper has already been done by Thales.
The British already use weapons on the General Atomic Reaper UAS employed over Afghanistan. The platform carries Hellfire missiles and precision guided bombs.
But while the MoD considers whether Watchkeeper might at some stage join Reaper as an armed ISTAR platform, the work getting the tactical platform to the frontlines is moving to a conclusion. The vehicle, based on the Elbit Systems Hermes 450, has now done more than 320 hours of flight test and over 250 flights in the UK and Israel.
Operational fielding trials are scheduled to get underway in October with the aim of having the first UAS and ground station available to deploy to Afghanistan at the end of the year. That’s later than planned but Moore said the program had been held up by software integration issues, the need to adapt the vehicle to harsh environmental conditions in Afghanistan and to dovetail with urgent operational requirement changes to related systems like communications and imagery handling.
Moore said the current schedule was to have six platforms in theatre by October next year to allow the Thales/Elbit team that has been providing ISTAR to the British under a fly-by-the-hour scheme using Hermes 450s to be stood down.
I read elsewhere that, including programme costs, these will cost us around £18m each. That figures does not include the 'sticking plaster' UOR costs of the Hermes 450 that had to be rushed into service in the interim.
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And Reaper costs how much per copy?
Add it all up it would probably be cheaper than Watchkeeper and also the Watchkeeper has the performace of a Grob Tutor whereas Reaper has the performance of a Super Tucano - no contest really.
So for 5 orbits of Reaper we're probably looking at £700M compared to Watchkeeper's £1Bn for the same.
CPL Clott
The good corporal's figures don't seem wide of the mark.
No doubt crew & weapon costs are not in the figure above but the joy of this fielded MOTS product is that we know exactly what we would be getting.
For the complete package, back in 2008:
Additional Reaper would come in handy for Libya too.
We really messed-up with Watchkeeper.
Unit Cost: $53.5 million (includes four aircraft with sensors and GCS) (fiscal 2006 dollars)
For the complete package, back in 2008:
The Government of Italy has requested a possible sale of 4 MQ-9 Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV), 3 Mobile Ground Control Stations, five years of maintenance support, engineering support, test equipment, ground support, operational flight test support, communications equipment, technical assistance, personnel training/equipment, spare and repair parts, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $330 million.
We really messed-up with Watchkeeper.
Last edited by Just This Once...; 9th Jul 2011 at 17:39.
and the biggest point is........neither UAV can fly off a ship..be it CVS, CVF, T45 USS George H Bush so that's great value!
P.S. Major Moore has got some battle ahead if he wants it armed. It has cost enough already and the extra cost for arming will be significant especially when there is another project which has Joint UK/French attention that will be in service 2020 and which will take all the funding.
P.S. Major Moore has got some battle ahead if he wants it armed. It has cost enough already and the extra cost for arming will be significant especially when there is another project which has Joint UK/French attention that will be in service 2020 and which will take all the funding.
Do the pilots get to wear flying suits and receive flying pay?
Reaper - yes, they are rated pilots that fly under IFR clearance (in the US they fly in Natiional Airspace under the permission of the Federal Aviation Authority and the US DoD). They log hours in a RAF Pilot's Logbook and they have to make the same "courageous restraint" combat decisions as FJ and Attack Helo pilots. If they left the service they would be employable as any other service pilot - so yes, they attract flying pay. The Italians fly Predator/Reaper in EuroControl airspace and set up temporal pieces of airspace reservation to fly in amongst normal GAT IFR traffic.
iRaven
iRaven, there are plenty of UAV that already fly off a ship. My point is that the UK has nothing that can. All development has been around whatever is required to support the Afghan operation.
Widger
I couldn't agree more, old chap. The UK's offerings are Watchkeeper (read Hermes 450 on steroids) and Mantis (read twin engined Reaper with a Buccaneer tail). The lack of anything "leading edge" from UK aerospace is very sad, but it stems from years of underachievement.
iRaven
I couldn't agree more, old chap. The UK's offerings are Watchkeeper (read Hermes 450 on steroids) and Mantis (read twin engined Reaper with a Buccaneer tail). The lack of anything "leading edge" from UK aerospace is very sad, but it stems from years of underachievement.
iRaven
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Jesus as simple thread and in come the "can't fly of a boat". I tell you what though it's an idea for WEBF and the outdated SHAR driver to justify the White elephants !
Fire and forget,
I really don't know what to say to that comment without coming across as rude or pompous but you have just demonstrated the limits of informed debate present on Pprune!
I really don't know what to say to that comment without coming across as rude or pompous but you have just demonstrated the limits of informed debate present on Pprune!
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With an endurance >24 hrs why would Reaper need to fly off a boat(?)
Not relevant to compare weapon costs either, unless one does the same for a weaponized Watchkeeper.
We'd have been better off investing in and developing HALE concepts like Zephyr rather than W/K
Not relevant to compare weapon costs either, unless one does the same for a weaponized Watchkeeper.
We'd have been better off investing in and developing HALE concepts like Zephyr rather than W/K