Sharkey shows his teeth
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Quite clearly Commander Ward is annoying quite a few members of this forum and it is only right and proper that folks have their right of reply, but I feel it does no one any credit by getting personal and hurling insults.
This man is not someone who is ever going to sit quietly in a corner and keep quiet. He would NEVER have made flag rank and I guess he was never the first name on any dinner invitations an admiral would send out to a task force. This officer did however have much to offer and was no doubt promoted because of the skills and abilities that were there for all to see and appreciate?
I guess his flaw was just like any number of fast jet pilots namely, he had the ego that is all too apparent among this highly trained select group. He was at the peak of his game and not afraid to speak out whenever he saw the need. Was this arrogance?? I do not like the word and apologise for being unable to think of a better suited option (I blame the morphine) I guess we could use self-importance or overconfidence, but I’m struggling to get that right wording.
Just look at how Sir Douglas Bader conducted himself regarding the ‘Big wing’ issue. Imagine if he were faced with an issue he passionately disagreed with, would he sit in a corner and keep quiet? Or would he have behaved in a manner that would probably have instantly upset any number of senior officers and maybe even some of his fellow pilots?
My thoughts are that Commander Ward was an extremely self-opinionated officer that had a knowledge second to none regarding the Sea Harrier and only a fool would ignore these skills that were to prove invaluable during that famous deployment. Sadly he was no Henry Kissinger when asked for an opinion.
Some of our Brylcreem boys are of the opinion this man only had a poor opinion of every member of the Junior Service but in truth did he ever utter a single bad word against Flt Lt Ian Mortimer? I believe this pilot was the Air Warfare instructor for his squadron, he was a pilot held in very high regard by every member of 801 squadron. If what is being suggested were true then Flt Lt Mortimer’s position aboard HMS Invincible would have been untenable.
The RAF have quite clearly received an unfair and probably unwarranted degree of flak from this officer but they are not alone in his less than diplomatic observations. His fellow Fleet Air Arm pilots in 800 squadron aboard HMS Hermes also took the full force of his blunt choice of words. I will tactfully suggest that in his opinion this second squadron were not getting the most out of their aircraft unlike his squadron which was being continually trained by all those that had something to offer especially the seconded RAF pilot…. Flt Lt Mortimer.
Respect to this officer and clearly his skills were reflected by those pilots he served alongside during those terrible few weeks.
I cannot begin to imagine the tremendous pressure\stress that Lt. Commander Ward (retired as Commander) was having to endure during that confrontation and although I have read countless posts on this forum suggesting that his book on the Falklands Conflict was all ‘Me, me, me’. I cannot recall him complaining about the pressures I suggest he had to endure. Yes the book was clearly about his exploits during that campaign, so yes it would be about this pilot (me, me, me) but I cannot recall any adverse comments about his high work load when out of the aircraft?? Yes he mentioned quite vocally how there were not enough pilots qualified for night operations or pilots not getting the best out of their aircraft, but night flying aboard a warship is no walk in the park and yes he was quite vocal about other squadrons. However I cannot recall any moans or groans regarding his squadron or his own work load when out of the cockpit.
I feel I must point out that during this conflict during the hours of darkness I would expect all ships to be ‘dark.’ There would NO LIGHTING!! No nice landing lights, no ships running, or navigation lights, nothing apart from the natural illumination offered by the night skies. To shine any sort of light during the hours of darkness is to offer the ship up as an easy target for any submarines that are looking for a nice juicy target.
Deck landings at night, at sea without any type of deck lighting is not for the faint hearted and those that were qualified would be carrying out the workload for the entire squadron, then after carrying out these challenging missions and in between his flying duties as a squadron commander this officer would have the day to day responsibilities of running the squadron, liaising with no doubt Commander Air and the C/O of HMS Invincible plus because of his expertise I would suggest he would also sometimes be required to talk with the senior officers on HMS Hermes.
Whilst aboard ship and before grabbing his much needed sleep he would have to fulfil all the above duties BUT…… whilst doing this whether it were daylight or night, if any of the escorting ships detected, or suspected any type of enemy threat, then the carrier would be closed up at action stations.
For those who are not aware, aboard a warship all the ships company including air crew is closed up during ‘Action Stations’ this is a term we use when the ship is under imminent or a probable threat from a perceived enemy, be they in the air on the surface, or under it. This means that if you have just landed after a tiring sortie and the ship goes to action stations, then tough… You close up. This may be for an hour, or as long as the threat is viable. Once stood down then it may well be time to get back up into the air! Then once you land back on terra firma……. You may be back at action stations!!!!! Even God would never forgive any officer or rating that were caught sleeping during action stations, it is just not acceptable. Eating is allowed and I guess going to the toilet is acceptable but that is it……. No having a wash or a quick inspection of the eyelids, you are there as part of the ships company and if the ship sinks, we all sink.
I have found a diary written by a crew member of one of the warships during that campaign and hopefully it will give us some idea of just how often a ship would be closed up at action stations and the stresses the crew has to endure during that period. When not at action stations, during this conflict the ship would probably operate at defence stations namely a six hour on watch, six hours off watch ad-infinitum other than when closed up at action stations. Again sleep would always be at a premium and even when you try to grab those few precious hours of sleep there was always, always the fear of a torpedo or perish the thought and undetected exocet missile trying to gain entry into your nice cosy tin coffin.
Between the last weeks of April and the 17th of June this officer flew approximately sixty sorties and I would guess he would have been very, very lucky to have managed at the very, very most four to six hours of un-interrupted sleep per day. I still maintain that this horrendous pressure has taken its toll on this excellent Sea Harrier pilot, he possibly paid a very, very heavy price and maybe this has had lasting effects on someone I will respectfully describe as a war hero?
My point in saying all this is to highlight the horrendous workload this person had to endure and I will also very, very respectfully point out that two members of his squadron were killed in action. He would no doubt have dealt with this tragic event and shouldered all the responsibilities that this would entail
YES we must all defend the reputation of our Junior Service and yes we must point out the multiple inaccuracies that have allegedly been made by this retired Naval Officer but do we really have to use the language of the gutter when talking about a pilot who played a significant role in that air operation of the Falklands Conflict.
My thoughts are that if the Argentinean Aircraft had not been shot down, by pilots from both the Fleet Air Arm and the RAF then may I respectfully suggest that it would have been highly probable that we would have lost a significant number of ships and I doubt we would have been able to put ‘boots on the ground.’ We would never have recovered those islands.
Suffice it to say that the Sea Harrier downed approximately 21 aircraft and I am NOT posting links as to who was piloting these Harriers... Every pilot that took part has my respect and who really cares if the uniform is light, or dark blue?
Apologies for my very long rambling post and please accept I fully understand why folks feel the need to defend their corner but this man has done more, achieved more, sacrificed more than probably most members of this forum and if we want to disagree with his points of view then that is everyone’s right but surely we are educated enough to be able to use less provocative language?
A final thought regarding the attitude of Commander Ward.
Is it at all possible that Ward requested GR3’s accompany the task force as they prepared to depart and this request was refused? This officer was aware of the capabilities of the aircraft and what could be achieved by it and the excellent pilots who fly it, but the request was turned down.
As a result of this refusal could Commander Ward belief that his squadron could have offered better protection to the task force and possibly prevented the loss of so many ships and sailors and he took their deaths as a failure on his part to prevent the incoming attacks?
I understand the reasons why the GR3's were not deployed with the task force and am simply trying to offer a reason as to why this officer now feels the need to let rip with both barrels… He speaks a few sensible words BUT……. boy does it get lost in the fall –out he creates by his over egging the debate and saying things that are factually inaccurate.
In my opinion long may we have our two Royal’s, namely the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, both services have their place and long may that continue.
Apologies for my ramblings and please accept I understand why folks are reacting to these letters but lets not get OTT with the rebuttals
Yours very sincerely
John
This man is not someone who is ever going to sit quietly in a corner and keep quiet. He would NEVER have made flag rank and I guess he was never the first name on any dinner invitations an admiral would send out to a task force. This officer did however have much to offer and was no doubt promoted because of the skills and abilities that were there for all to see and appreciate?
I guess his flaw was just like any number of fast jet pilots namely, he had the ego that is all too apparent among this highly trained select group. He was at the peak of his game and not afraid to speak out whenever he saw the need. Was this arrogance?? I do not like the word and apologise for being unable to think of a better suited option (I blame the morphine) I guess we could use self-importance or overconfidence, but I’m struggling to get that right wording.
Just look at how Sir Douglas Bader conducted himself regarding the ‘Big wing’ issue. Imagine if he were faced with an issue he passionately disagreed with, would he sit in a corner and keep quiet? Or would he have behaved in a manner that would probably have instantly upset any number of senior officers and maybe even some of his fellow pilots?
My thoughts are that Commander Ward was an extremely self-opinionated officer that had a knowledge second to none regarding the Sea Harrier and only a fool would ignore these skills that were to prove invaluable during that famous deployment. Sadly he was no Henry Kissinger when asked for an opinion.
Some of our Brylcreem boys are of the opinion this man only had a poor opinion of every member of the Junior Service but in truth did he ever utter a single bad word against Flt Lt Ian Mortimer? I believe this pilot was the Air Warfare instructor for his squadron, he was a pilot held in very high regard by every member of 801 squadron. If what is being suggested were true then Flt Lt Mortimer’s position aboard HMS Invincible would have been untenable.
The RAF have quite clearly received an unfair and probably unwarranted degree of flak from this officer but they are not alone in his less than diplomatic observations. His fellow Fleet Air Arm pilots in 800 squadron aboard HMS Hermes also took the full force of his blunt choice of words. I will tactfully suggest that in his opinion this second squadron were not getting the most out of their aircraft unlike his squadron which was being continually trained by all those that had something to offer especially the seconded RAF pilot…. Flt Lt Mortimer.
Respect to this officer and clearly his skills were reflected by those pilots he served alongside during those terrible few weeks.
I cannot begin to imagine the tremendous pressure\stress that Lt. Commander Ward (retired as Commander) was having to endure during that confrontation and although I have read countless posts on this forum suggesting that his book on the Falklands Conflict was all ‘Me, me, me’. I cannot recall him complaining about the pressures I suggest he had to endure. Yes the book was clearly about his exploits during that campaign, so yes it would be about this pilot (me, me, me) but I cannot recall any adverse comments about his high work load when out of the aircraft?? Yes he mentioned quite vocally how there were not enough pilots qualified for night operations or pilots not getting the best out of their aircraft, but night flying aboard a warship is no walk in the park and yes he was quite vocal about other squadrons. However I cannot recall any moans or groans regarding his squadron or his own work load when out of the cockpit.
I feel I must point out that during this conflict during the hours of darkness I would expect all ships to be ‘dark.’ There would NO LIGHTING!! No nice landing lights, no ships running, or navigation lights, nothing apart from the natural illumination offered by the night skies. To shine any sort of light during the hours of darkness is to offer the ship up as an easy target for any submarines that are looking for a nice juicy target.
Deck landings at night, at sea without any type of deck lighting is not for the faint hearted and those that were qualified would be carrying out the workload for the entire squadron, then after carrying out these challenging missions and in between his flying duties as a squadron commander this officer would have the day to day responsibilities of running the squadron, liaising with no doubt Commander Air and the C/O of HMS Invincible plus because of his expertise I would suggest he would also sometimes be required to talk with the senior officers on HMS Hermes.
Whilst aboard ship and before grabbing his much needed sleep he would have to fulfil all the above duties BUT…… whilst doing this whether it were daylight or night, if any of the escorting ships detected, or suspected any type of enemy threat, then the carrier would be closed up at action stations.
For those who are not aware, aboard a warship all the ships company including air crew is closed up during ‘Action Stations’ this is a term we use when the ship is under imminent or a probable threat from a perceived enemy, be they in the air on the surface, or under it. This means that if you have just landed after a tiring sortie and the ship goes to action stations, then tough… You close up. This may be for an hour, or as long as the threat is viable. Once stood down then it may well be time to get back up into the air! Then once you land back on terra firma……. You may be back at action stations!!!!! Even God would never forgive any officer or rating that were caught sleeping during action stations, it is just not acceptable. Eating is allowed and I guess going to the toilet is acceptable but that is it……. No having a wash or a quick inspection of the eyelids, you are there as part of the ships company and if the ship sinks, we all sink.
I have found a diary written by a crew member of one of the warships during that campaign and hopefully it will give us some idea of just how often a ship would be closed up at action stations and the stresses the crew has to endure during that period. When not at action stations, during this conflict the ship would probably operate at defence stations namely a six hour on watch, six hours off watch ad-infinitum other than when closed up at action stations. Again sleep would always be at a premium and even when you try to grab those few precious hours of sleep there was always, always the fear of a torpedo or perish the thought and undetected exocet missile trying to gain entry into your nice cosy tin coffin.
Between the last weeks of April and the 17th of June this officer flew approximately sixty sorties and I would guess he would have been very, very lucky to have managed at the very, very most four to six hours of un-interrupted sleep per day. I still maintain that this horrendous pressure has taken its toll on this excellent Sea Harrier pilot, he possibly paid a very, very heavy price and maybe this has had lasting effects on someone I will respectfully describe as a war hero?
My point in saying all this is to highlight the horrendous workload this person had to endure and I will also very, very respectfully point out that two members of his squadron were killed in action. He would no doubt have dealt with this tragic event and shouldered all the responsibilities that this would entail
YES we must all defend the reputation of our Junior Service and yes we must point out the multiple inaccuracies that have allegedly been made by this retired Naval Officer but do we really have to use the language of the gutter when talking about a pilot who played a significant role in that air operation of the Falklands Conflict.
My thoughts are that if the Argentinean Aircraft had not been shot down, by pilots from both the Fleet Air Arm and the RAF then may I respectfully suggest that it would have been highly probable that we would have lost a significant number of ships and I doubt we would have been able to put ‘boots on the ground.’ We would never have recovered those islands.
Suffice it to say that the Sea Harrier downed approximately 21 aircraft and I am NOT posting links as to who was piloting these Harriers... Every pilot that took part has my respect and who really cares if the uniform is light, or dark blue?
Apologies for my very long rambling post and please accept I fully understand why folks feel the need to defend their corner but this man has done more, achieved more, sacrificed more than probably most members of this forum and if we want to disagree with his points of view then that is everyone’s right but surely we are educated enough to be able to use less provocative language?
A final thought regarding the attitude of Commander Ward.
Is it at all possible that Ward requested GR3’s accompany the task force as they prepared to depart and this request was refused? This officer was aware of the capabilities of the aircraft and what could be achieved by it and the excellent pilots who fly it, but the request was turned down.
As a result of this refusal could Commander Ward belief that his squadron could have offered better protection to the task force and possibly prevented the loss of so many ships and sailors and he took their deaths as a failure on his part to prevent the incoming attacks?
I understand the reasons why the GR3's were not deployed with the task force and am simply trying to offer a reason as to why this officer now feels the need to let rip with both barrels… He speaks a few sensible words BUT……. boy does it get lost in the fall –out he creates by his over egging the debate and saying things that are factually inaccurate.
In my opinion long may we have our two Royal’s, namely the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, both services have their place and long may that continue.
Apologies for my ramblings and please accept I understand why folks are reacting to these letters but lets not get OTT with the rebuttals
Yours very sincerely
John
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John,
There are plenty of 'self opinionated' people on this website - myself included. I can believe the bit about Ops and the stress it brings. What I can't take on the chin is 'revisionist hoop' about the RAF at sea. Read into his website and you will see him slag off the chinook contribution to the Al Faw in 2003 deployed ashore from Ark Royal.
That is sadly just one of many he is unqualified to comment upon....
There are plenty of 'self opinionated' people on this website - myself included. I can believe the bit about Ops and the stress it brings. What I can't take on the chin is 'revisionist hoop' about the RAF at sea. Read into his website and you will see him slag off the chinook contribution to the Al Faw in 2003 deployed ashore from Ark Royal.
That is sadly just one of many he is unqualified to comment upon....
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Engines
Just get the facts right.
Thus my linking it in with other same [ish] era aircraft that have finally been retired, leaving the VC10 as the sole remaining type of that (golden) age. Along with it's recently imposed pax restrictions as has been touched upon here.
Having spent many, many happy hours re wiring the Harrier fus on the original Jump line, believe me I know my facts. From the inside out.
all the best
GR.
Last edited by glad rag; 5th Jul 2011 at 21:45. Reason: grammar sorry
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I wonder if the same characters being discuseed here will be at Somerset's finest air show this weekend coming?
Wonder if they will publicly criticise the same RAF that is taking part in their airshow and demonstrating it's SH capability amongst other things?
Can't see the GR4 role demo listed though?!
Wonder if they will publicly criticise the same RAF that is taking part in their airshow and demonstrating it's SH capability amongst other things?
Can't see the GR4 role demo listed though?!
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Originally Posted by High spirits
There are plenty of 'self opinionated' people on this website - myself included. I can believe the bit about Ops and the stress it brings. What I can't take on the chin is 'revisionist hoop' about the RAF at sea. Read into his website and you will see him slag off the chinook contribution to the Al Faw in 2003 deployed ashore from Ark Royal.
That is sadly just one of many he is unqualified to comment upon....
That is sadly just one of many he is unqualified to comment upon....
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Cmdr Nigel D. MacCartan-Ward
Still a prat, no matter what he calls himself!
Foldie
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Glad Rag - starting with the Kestrel; which incidentally was the name given to the airman's Naffi at RAF Wyton
Ps the NAAFI at Wyton was the Skyways club again a nice establishment but spoilt by being too close to the bright lights of Huntingdon. I prefered the Blue Lion Club at Binbrook myself. Right back on topic, something to do with teeth and gold plated dic*ks???
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So he went to war, flew a lot of missions, lost a load of sleep and was worried about bring bombarded when back at base ( in this case a ship).
So what ? Aviators have been going through these exact fears for the same span of time as the entire falklands conflict, every year for the last 7 years in Basra or Kandahar or Bastion.
I don't see these guys and girls writing cry-baby letters to the press slagging off and lying about the navy every week.
The man is a chimp........
Except less intelligent.......
And interesting.
So what ? Aviators have been going through these exact fears for the same span of time as the entire falklands conflict, every year for the last 7 years in Basra or Kandahar or Bastion.
I don't see these guys and girls writing cry-baby letters to the press slagging off and lying about the navy every week.
The man is a chimp........
Except less intelligent.......
And interesting.
Last edited by Unchecked; 6th Jul 2011 at 11:10.
Originally Posted by Unchecked
So he went to war, flew a lot of missions, lost a load of sleep and was worried about bring bombarded when back at base ( in this case a ship).
So what ? Aviators have been going through these exact fears for the same span of time as the entire falklands conflict, every year for the last 7 years in Basra or Kandahar or Bastion.
I don't see these guys and girls writing cry-baby letters to the press slagging off and lying about the navy every week.
The man is a chimp........
Except less intelligent.......
And interesting.
So what ? Aviators have been going through these exact fears for the same span of time as the entire falklands conflict, every year for the last 7 years in Basra or Kandahar or Bastion.
I don't see these guys and girls writing cry-baby letters to the press slagging off and lying about the navy every week.
The man is a chimp........
Except less intelligent.......
And interesting.
Out of interest, how does your professional/combat record stack up against that of this "chimp"?
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Really? So how does a rag-tag militia equipped with AK-47s, RPGs, IEDs and donkeys pose anywhere near the same threat as Mirages, Super Etendards, Skyhawks, Roland SAMs, AAA, etc?
Clue: The result can be exactly the same
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The Wizard hits the nail on the head. For some aviators, perhaps not those that snot around at over 500' at 400kts, then a single 5.56mm round, or even a well launched rocked, can have the same effect as an AIM-9. An improvised rocket launched from a gurney 15km away, landing on a tent in Basra can have the same effect as an advanced Exocet landing in a ship. Trust me, I've seen the horrifying results.
Time for you to stop using the falklands as the yardstick for battle, and get with the present.
Time for you to stop using the falklands as the yardstick for battle, and get with the present.
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Originally Posted by unchecked
So he went to war, flew a lot of missions, lost a load of sleep and was worried about bring bombarded when back at base ( in this case a ship).
So what ? Aviators have been going through these exact fears for the same span of time as the entire falklands conflict, every year for the last 7 years in Basra or Kandahar or Bastion.
I don't see these guys and girls writing cry-baby letters to the press slagging off and lying about the navy every week.
The man is a chimp.
So what ? Aviators have been going through these exact fears for the same span of time as the entire falklands conflict, every year for the last 7 years in Basra or Kandahar or Bastion.
I don't see these guys and girls writing cry-baby letters to the press slagging off and lying about the navy every week.
The man is a chimp.
I guess you are entitled to your opinions but your response does you no credit.
I am NOT taking sides regarding the Royal Navy or the Royal Air Force as in my opinion both services are a credit to our country and are both manned by highly professional, highly trained personnel.
Your comments however need a response and to compare one conflict with others is in my opinion out of order.
Falklands Conflict in just a six week period
Aircraft losses (Harriers)
Royal Air Force
In excess of 30%
Fleet Air Arm
Harrier losses over 20%
7 helicopters
Royal Marines
2 helicopters
Army
1 helicopter
Ships sunk
HMS Antelope
HMS Ardent
HMS Coventry
HMS Sheffield
RFA Sir Galahad
Merchant Vessel Atlantic Conveyor
Large Landing Craft from HMS Fearless hit by bomb and sunk
Damaged ships
HMS Alacrity hit by bomb
HMS Antrim hit by bomb
HMS Argonaut hit by bomb, cannon fire and rockets
HMS Arrow hit by cannon fire
HMS Brilliant hit by cannon fire
BP Tanker British Wye hit by bomb
HMS Broadsword hit by cannon fire
HMS Glamorgan bomb damage by very near miss, weeks later hit by Exocet
HMS Glasgow hit by bomb
HMS Plymouth hit by bomb
RFA Sir Lancelot hit by bomb
RFA Bedivere hit by bomb
All this happened within just a six week window and I am guessing we all have imaginations and where would you place the risk of being aboard a ship that got hit by at least a 500Ib bomb? When would you sleep? Remember at action stations there is no sleeping?
To compare the above to current campaigns is perhaps being unfair but PLEASE do not for one second think I am belittling today's magnificent efforts being regularly displayed by our Armed Services. Their bravery, professionalism and skills are beyond criticism.
Commander Ward along with the other squadron was tasked with protecting the task force and the success or failure of this invasion rested squarely on the shoulders of these two squadrons.. The pressures that you so easily dismiss must surely weigh heavily on the shoulders of anyone that takes a pride in their job. Each successful attack on these ships could be viewed as a failure on his part and no amount of support can stop some folks from possibly blaming themselves.
The stress of command is not something everyone can cope with but whatever the cost the flag of Great Britain flies once more. To belittle those that might have paid a high price for doing does not do anyone any credit.
Let him rant, let him rave and then maybe just look at what he and his squadron did for those Falkland Islanders.
None of us will prevent this person from voicing his opinion,
Finally
I AM NOT CONDONING THE PRESENT DAY CONDUCT OF THIS RETIRED OFFICER
Yes folks are facing the threat of terrorist attack but to suggest the threat level was comparable to that of the Falklands Conflict is perhaps doing a 'Sharkey!' but most of us know better.
Commander Ward might have an excuse for his rambling but do we have any excuse for insulting these folks?
I am NOT a medical person, I have NO idea if Commander Ward is ill but I have suffered from post traumatic stress disorder (Thanks to an understanding wife and medical officer I am now firing on all two cylinders)
I repeat that I am NOT COMPARING past with present, I am just letting folks compare
Originally Posted by The Wizard
I am guessing you have never experienced either of those scenarios otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question..........
Clue: The result can be exactly the same
Clue: The result can be exactly the same
(Someone else who opts to play the man instead of the ball, I see.)
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Glojo, i appreciate your well-worded and factual response. Your original post did come across as a bit of a falklands vs everyone else argument though.
Im not belittling what he or anyone else did in the falklands, just reminding you, him, and anyone else that needs reminding that there are men and women doing this kind of thing right now, and have been for years. He is special, but no more than anyone else who flies in a theatre of war.
Also, ref: your last few paragraphs, please try telling those based at Basra in 2007, that it was a better place to be than on a ship in the atlantic. These people all feared for their lives, whilst sleep deprived and still had to continue with their jobs. I'm pretty sure the thoughts and feelings will have been no different.
Im not belittling what he or anyone else did in the falklands, just reminding you, him, and anyone else that needs reminding that there are men and women doing this kind of thing right now, and have been for years. He is special, but no more than anyone else who flies in a theatre of war.
Also, ref: your last few paragraphs, please try telling those based at Basra in 2007, that it was a better place to be than on a ship in the atlantic. These people all feared for their lives, whilst sleep deprived and still had to continue with their jobs. I'm pretty sure the thoughts and feelings will have been no different.
Last edited by Unchecked; 6th Jul 2011 at 13:41.
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I am saddened to see how this thread is sliding downhill and I guess this sums it up
Were the likes of Commander Ward any braver than Major Mick Mannock, Sir Douglas Bader or Flt Lt Ian Fortune?
No, of course not and each generation will make its own history..
I am simply attempting to show a little compassion and perhaps tolerance for someone whose flying skills are beyond reproach.
His communication skills
Originally Posted by downthehill
My dads braver than your dad.......
No, of course not and each generation will make its own history..
I am simply attempting to show a little compassion and perhaps tolerance for someone whose flying skills are beyond reproach.
His communication skills
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ie The final result can be the same whether you are sat in a fast jet, helicopter or AFV in the South Atlantic, Afghanistan or the Mediterranean or in a tent, mud hut or portacabin on ops.
Making comparisons does no one any favours, least of all those that have been on the receiving end.
(There we are, ball back in play.)
Last edited by TheWizard; 6th Jul 2011 at 13:50.