General McChrystal - Hero or Villain?
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Maybe there were no reputable news outlets embedded at the time.
Maybe he wanted to time the release of the interview with the monthly meeting in Warshington.
Maybe the other embeds were on a 24 hour news cycle and the only weekly or monthly embed was the one he chose.
He's a chess player and a highly skilled manipulator. He chose his weapon carefully. He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew how to do it.
Maybe he wanted to time the release of the interview with the monthly meeting in Warshington.
Maybe the other embeds were on a 24 hour news cycle and the only weekly or monthly embed was the one he chose.
He's a chess player and a highly skilled manipulator. He chose his weapon carefully. He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew how to do it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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There was an interview on R4 this morning with a US talking head suggesting that as the good General had spent most of his career working on 'the dark side', that he was not as media savvy as other, more green army types would be.
I thought that that sounded like bunkem.
Whilst Occam's Razor would propose that this was an unguarded cock-up - I tend to agree with the comments above about this being a considered action.
I thought that that sounded like bunkem.
Whilst Occam's Razor would propose that this was an unguarded cock-up - I tend to agree with the comments above about this being a considered action.
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All officers study military history during their initial training. The history of military campaigns in Afghanistan makes for sad reading.
If politicians did similar studies we wouldn't all be in this mess & Mac's frustration at bl**** interfering politicians wouldn't have resulted in his being fired.
No Neptunus, he won't stand as a Republican. He'll quietly write his memoirs & publish them during the next Presidential elections to ensure that the useless Obama & his limp wristed left wing buddies doesn't get re-elected.
If politicians did similar studies we wouldn't all be in this mess & Mac's frustration at bl**** interfering politicians wouldn't have resulted in his being fired.
No Neptunus, he won't stand as a Republican. He'll quietly write his memoirs & publish them during the next Presidential elections to ensure that the useless Obama & his limp wristed left wing buddies doesn't get re-elected.
I'm with the McChrystal wanted out crowd.
McChrystal has been pushing the limits of the military top brass since birth, literally (his dad was a 2*). He knew very well he'd get sacked for this. We must ask why he wants out. His COIN strategy is predicated on a credible government of Afghanistan (any COIN strategy is). I don't think he thinks this is possible now. Ergo the war will be lost, and I don't think he wants to be around when it is. It is not McChrystal's job to provide a credible Afghan government, but Washington's. However good his plan, it can't work without this. I think he's lost faith in Washington; I certainly have!
The Rolling Stone bit gets him some cool points
for when he runs as Senator. More importantly, the Rolling Stone reporter was far more likely to print it without asking him the difficult questions he doesn't want to answer.
McChrystal has been pushing the limits of the military top brass since birth, literally (his dad was a 2*). He knew very well he'd get sacked for this. We must ask why he wants out. His COIN strategy is predicated on a credible government of Afghanistan (any COIN strategy is). I don't think he thinks this is possible now. Ergo the war will be lost, and I don't think he wants to be around when it is. It is not McChrystal's job to provide a credible Afghan government, but Washington's. However good his plan, it can't work without this. I think he's lost faith in Washington; I certainly have!
The Rolling Stone bit gets him some cool points
for when he runs as Senator. More importantly, the Rolling Stone reporter was far more likely to print it without asking him the difficult questions he doesn't want to answer.
Evidently the extended time Mr Hastings spent with McChrystal owed less to the latter's Machiavellian plotting and more to the logistical problems created by a certain volcano. As to whether the good General be Hero or Villain, I suspect that depends on who is making that judgement. If it be his own troops I'll go with their verdict, for any commander who loses the trust of those he leads should get out pronto. Perhaps that was his motivation. If it be his own commander, ie President Obama, then I would be less willing to be so compliant. The Rolling Stone article is above all else a searing condemnation of the dysfunctional US higher command, be it in Washington or Kabul, be it civilian or military. Sure it savages General McChrystal, but far more damning is its denouncing of the overblown incompetent bureaucracy of which he was but part. That remains in place and seems to be sleepwalking towards another end of campaign scenario reminiscent of that last shameful day in Saigon. Never mind Obama's reaction to this piece, time for our dear coalition partners to put their thinking caps on and get us out of there before that event. I notice that the article bemoans the paucity of support for the US from its Nato allies, listing them in turn without any mention of the Brits. Strikes me that says a lot about Mr Hastings strategic take, and maybe of a lot more others as well.
In the meantime is that a band playing "Nearer my God to thee"?
In the meantime is that a band playing "Nearer my God to thee"?
Reports in the past weeks show bitterness and frustration among the troops due to McC's tight RoE, which he is aware are politically required. I don't see the soldiers idolizing him. I don't see him running for Congress, as I doubt he wants to, and he has no "victory" to use for laurel resting.
I share the criticism of his example in leading the staff, and not ensuring that his Chief of Staff ride herd on the loose lips of mouthy staff officers (been around a few ... ). Maybe he forgot the basics. "If you have time to bitch about the VP, you had time to actually try to solve problems instead. Get your focus on, gentlemen!"
Intrigued by the idea, Fox3, that he saw this turd as not worthy of polishing, and so used media as avenue to force his own relief. I don't think that's what he's made of, but it is plausible. He's a SOF guy ... they do strange things frequently.
Patreaus will probably forward LT GEN Allen's name soon to Congress as actual replacement, so he can go back to being CENTCOM, which is his billet.
Meanwhile, Pres Karzai is pissed because he seemed to have found that he could work with General McC.
Pres Obama was facing a lose-lose situation, so he did what he had to do. Fire the General. Had to show he was tough for domestic political reasons.
I share the criticism of his example in leading the staff, and not ensuring that his Chief of Staff ride herd on the loose lips of mouthy staff officers (been around a few ... ). Maybe he forgot the basics. "If you have time to bitch about the VP, you had time to actually try to solve problems instead. Get your focus on, gentlemen!"
Intrigued by the idea, Fox3, that he saw this turd as not worthy of polishing, and so used media as avenue to force his own relief. I don't think that's what he's made of, but it is plausible. He's a SOF guy ... they do strange things frequently.
Patreaus will probably forward LT GEN Allen's name soon to Congress as actual replacement, so he can go back to being CENTCOM, which is his billet.
Meanwhile, Pres Karzai is pissed because he seemed to have found that he could work with General McC.
Pres Obama was facing a lose-lose situation, so he did what he had to do. Fire the General. Had to show he was tough for domestic political reasons.
Thanks for the view from the States, Lonewolf.
He's had interviews without coffee with Obama over Afghanistan before, and he's politically astute enough to know the President would have to sack him. I think that his sacking was a given, so why?
He knows Karzai (or at least Karzai thinks he does), so would he know that Karzai isn't credible?
He knows he has to apply those ROE, so maybe he thinks these are too big of a handicap? Did he think he could cope with these restrictions on GI Joe as long as his SF dudes could do all the dirty work at night when 'no-one's looking'?
I don't buy his believing that his own COIN strategy is wrong.
I think he thinks no laurels are to be had. I think Petraeus thinks this too, which is another possible reason why he'll hand this one off sharpish.
He's had interviews without coffee with Obama over Afghanistan before, and he's politically astute enough to know the President would have to sack him. I think that his sacking was a given, so why?
He knows Karzai (or at least Karzai thinks he does), so would he know that Karzai isn't credible?
He knows he has to apply those ROE, so maybe he thinks these are too big of a handicap? Did he think he could cope with these restrictions on GI Joe as long as his SF dudes could do all the dirty work at night when 'no-one's looking'?
I don't buy his believing that his own COIN strategy is wrong.
I think he thinks no laurels are to be had. I think Petraeus thinks this too, which is another possible reason why he'll hand this one off sharpish.
Silly me. I dreamt last night that the President had the General on the carpet this morning, listened carefully to what he had to say, asked many very sharp questions, then fired all the people in his Administration of whom the General was critical and sent him back to Afghanistan on the afternoon plane.
Silly me.
Silly me.
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Sorry but I disagree with Obamas firing of this General.
Being retired USAF and flying cargo into this area, Baghram, Kandahar etc in the civilian world now.
This General called a Duck a Duck.
Yes he was wrong to do so in public.
But as an American I can say this Obama welfare man is the biggest idiot we have ever elected to office.
I think that if memory serves me correctly the General under the Clinton administration called the President a dope smoking, draft dodging womanizing idiot.
He hit the nail on the head and had to resign also.
But we were not at war then.
Sorry if the Truth hurts.
Ones that voted for Obama are already backtracking.
One thing for sure come 2012 Obama and bite me are history.
Just as the midterm elections are showing now with the congressman in every state.
Many are losing positions as we speak.
Being retired USAF and flying cargo into this area, Baghram, Kandahar etc in the civilian world now.
This General called a Duck a Duck.
Yes he was wrong to do so in public.
But as an American I can say this Obama welfare man is the biggest idiot we have ever elected to office.
I think that if memory serves me correctly the General under the Clinton administration called the President a dope smoking, draft dodging womanizing idiot.
He hit the nail on the head and had to resign also.
But we were not at war then.
Sorry if the Truth hurts.
Ones that voted for Obama are already backtracking.
One thing for sure come 2012 Obama and bite me are history.
Just as the midterm elections are showing now with the congressman in every state.
Many are losing positions as we speak.
Earl, we've no doubt you believe that Obama and Biden are a big enough pair of t1ts to get a job at Hooter's, but do you really think:
a) McChrystal didn't know what he was doing with the reporter (he was with him for a month)?
b) Any President would have been able to let any general off for being so publically critical?
What's the real story here? Why did McChrystal want out?
a) McChrystal didn't know what he was doing with the reporter (he was with him for a month)?
b) Any President would have been able to let any general off for being so publically critical?
What's the real story here? Why did McChrystal want out?
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I agree with those who think he knew exactly what he was doing and wanted out because he could see the writing on the wall with political support from home drying up - or not lasting long enough to win.
The shame is, no one in navel-gazing Washington will choose to read it that way and we'll see a repeat of Vietnam. The 'Vietnamisation/(= Afghanisation)" phase, the declaration of succes, the face-saving pull out of coalition troops... and then 1975 and the "T54 through the palace gates moment" (or its equivalent) all over again.
As the Taliban leadership (and, I suspect, the Pakistani Government as well) knew it would go from Day 1.
The big question is: how many full scale military defeats can an empire withstand before it goes the way of all empires?
The shame is, no one in navel-gazing Washington will choose to read it that way and we'll see a repeat of Vietnam. The 'Vietnamisation/(= Afghanisation)" phase, the declaration of succes, the face-saving pull out of coalition troops... and then 1975 and the "T54 through the palace gates moment" (or its equivalent) all over again.
As the Taliban leadership (and, I suspect, the Pakistani Government as well) knew it would go from Day 1.
The big question is: how many full scale military defeats can an empire withstand before it goes the way of all empires?
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McChrystal's War isn't being lost because the Empire is collapsing and the Empire isn't collapsing because it is losing the war.
The war is being lost because the war is unwinnable. That's all.
The Empire is collapsing because no empire in history can survive in a state of negative wealth. The $13Tn debt is massively unaffordable and everyone knows that there is neither willingness nor ability to repay that debt. They've reached a position of terminal decline where they have to borrow more and more simply to service the unaffordable debt. It's like a family household taking out a new credit card to pay the minimum payments on their already maxed out credit cards.
McChrystal merely recognised that his war is already being lost. His idea that he could roll up Helmand through massive firepower didn't work and his idea of sending in the puppet Afghan army to sort out downtown Kandahar for him won't work either.
Quite understandably, he doesn't want to be remembered by History as the man who lost McChrystal's War.
Petraeus doesn't either, which is why he will delegate the job to an underling pdq.
The war is being lost because the war is unwinnable. That's all.
The Empire is collapsing because no empire in history can survive in a state of negative wealth. The $13Tn debt is massively unaffordable and everyone knows that there is neither willingness nor ability to repay that debt. They've reached a position of terminal decline where they have to borrow more and more simply to service the unaffordable debt. It's like a family household taking out a new credit card to pay the minimum payments on their already maxed out credit cards.
McChrystal merely recognised that his war is already being lost. His idea that he could roll up Helmand through massive firepower didn't work and his idea of sending in the puppet Afghan army to sort out downtown Kandahar for him won't work either.
Quite understandably, he doesn't want to be remembered by History as the man who lost McChrystal's War.
Petraeus doesn't either, which is why he will delegate the job to an underling pdq.
His idea that he could roll up Helmand through massive firepower
Other than that, some of your points make sense.
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I disagree with those who suggest that McChrystal did this deliberately in order to get a way out. If he wanted an honorable way out, he could have simply resigned and offered up an excuse -- spend time with his family, health, etc.
McChrystal began believing his own press, and his staff reflected his arrogance. The reporter was around long enough for McChrystal and staff to forget to watch their mouths. Given the long hours and extreme frustrations involved in the war, it is not surprising that they made some impolitic remarks.
McChrystal began believing his own press, and his staff reflected his arrogance. The reporter was around long enough for McChrystal and staff to forget to watch their mouths. Given the long hours and extreme frustrations involved in the war, it is not surprising that they made some impolitic remarks.
Sidevalve
Former DSF is Lt Gen Graeme "Mad Dog" Lamb.
Graeme Lamb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Before his got the job with Afg, prob best known within US Military circles for showing his 6-pack to Pres G W Bush and SecState Rice on his last VTC from Iraq....
Graeme Lamb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Before his got the job with Afg, prob best known within US Military circles for showing his 6-pack to Pres G W Bush and SecState Rice on his last VTC from Iraq....
From a wiki article ....
I expect General P will hope to keep him on ...
Lamb has always acknowledged the importance of targeted force in warfare; Lamb has been quoted as describing McChrystal's forces in Iraq as being "absolutely essential to setting the conditions that allowed the Awakening to move forward". Nonetheless, he has also stressed the importance of timing in the final outreach process. Lamb is quoted as suggesting that the timing of his strategic engagement initiative in Iraq was critical, stating that if "we tried to do it in mid-2004, it would have crashed and burned... [b]ecause at the end of the day, people hadn’t exercised their revenge. They hadn’t stood at the edge of the abyss and looked into it." In a similar vein, Lamb has stated that "certain things were possible in 2006 that would not have been possible in 2004 or 2005".
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President Obama has nigh on tripled the firepower on the ground that he inherited. Much of this was at the beckoning of McChrystal. The increase in boots/firepower on the ground has not worked and it will not work. It didn't work in Majan and it won't work in Kandahar. The problem isn't with the the US grunts, either qualitativey or quantitavely.
The problem is the abjectly ****e Afghan "national" puppet army and the shower of crooks dressed up in police uniform. McC's dream that he could send those wallies in to fight his fight was dumb and dumber, in that order.
McCrystal was savvy enough to recognise that, albeit far too late to extricate his career from the current and even worse impending disaster. He didn't want to go down in history as either a quitter or a loser, so he took a sideways exit.
Pres Obama, meanwhile, has played an equally good chess move in appointing Petraeus to replace McC. Very clever move, actually. It has completely stymied any hopes that General P might have had of tilting his lance at the presidency in Nov '12.
The problem is the abjectly ****e Afghan "national" puppet army and the shower of crooks dressed up in police uniform. McC's dream that he could send those wallies in to fight his fight was dumb and dumber, in that order.
McCrystal was savvy enough to recognise that, albeit far too late to extricate his career from the current and even worse impending disaster. He didn't want to go down in history as either a quitter or a loser, so he took a sideways exit.
Pres Obama, meanwhile, has played an equally good chess move in appointing Petraeus to replace McC. Very clever move, actually. It has completely stymied any hopes that General P might have had of tilting his lance at the presidency in Nov '12.
The problem is the abjectly ****e Afghan "national" puppet army and the shower of crooks dressed up in police uniform. McC's dream that he could send those wallies in to fight his fight was dumb and dumber, in that order.
One wonders why he was the only flavor of the month.
Since his first arrival as interim, the American objective has been, politically, to empower and leave in place a government (almost to the point of an anyone but you, Taliban! government) which by structure and definition comes with associated soldiers and cops. That choice is bound by a number of constraints, one of which is the decision that the lines on the map, as drawn, are sacred, regardless of how "unified" the collection of peoples actually is.
The dream you mention did not originate, as far as I can see, with General Stan.
It's part of the American policy continuum since ... well, since the Taliban were tossed out of the driver's seat.
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Lonewolf 50
Overall, as Empire builders, I hope that you will agree, that we Brits made a reasonable job of it. Afterall, we quickly let go of those stroppy Americans!
However, although India has been reasonably successful, we never, ever got a grip on the Muslim people, just as America screwed up in the Far East. Therefore I unfortunately have to conclude that it is extremely unlikely that there will be LONG TERM solution to the Afghan conflict.
The career of Gen Stan M is just one casualty of this unfortunate conflict. Sadly there will be 1000s to follow.
However, although India has been reasonably successful, we never, ever got a grip on the Muslim people, just as America screwed up in the Far East. Therefore I unfortunately have to conclude that it is extremely unlikely that there will be LONG TERM solution to the Afghan conflict.
The career of Gen Stan M is just one casualty of this unfortunate conflict. Sadly there will be 1000s to follow.