MOD Civil Servants £300M Bonuses Vs Battle of Britain Memorial Flight's £3M.
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There is already a large amount of sponsorship in the BBMF and a great deal of help from industry. Whilst further private funding could be sought it is worth remembering that we have a collective responsibility to remember all those people in this island who made the Battle of Britain our finest hour.
To forget the BBMF motto 'Lest we Forget' is to not only fail to respect all those people but also to forget the lessons of that period. Whilst it was our finest hour it was also a period in history when political failings took us very close to loss of our national identity and cultural heritage. Could we repeat such failures if we forget those lessons - you bet we could and we're not that far from doing so today.
Three million is a very small price to keep those lessons fresh.
To forget the BBMF motto 'Lest we Forget' is to not only fail to respect all those people but also to forget the lessons of that period. Whilst it was our finest hour it was also a period in history when political failings took us very close to loss of our national identity and cultural heritage. Could we repeat such failures if we forget those lessons - you bet we could and we're not that far from doing so today.
Three million is a very small price to keep those lessons fresh.
Whilst it is easy to have a pop at the Civil Servants, without them we would be stuffed and by the way, have a look here at actually how low most of them are paid.
The comments above re- imposition of the pay bonuses are correct and on top of that, many of them have jobs that may well be taken under PACE.
Bernard Gray's recent report emphasised quite clearly that the MOD needs high quality, properly trained individuals in the civil service, particularly in DE&S, unfortunately, over the last few decades we have been paying peanuts....
The comments above re- imposition of the pay bonuses are correct and on top of that, many of them have jobs that may well be taken under PACE.
Bernard Gray's recent report emphasised quite clearly that the MOD needs high quality, properly trained individuals in the civil service, particularly in DE&S, unfortunately, over the last few decades we have been paying peanuts....
Bernard Gray's recent report emphasised quite clearly that the MOD needs high quality, properly trained individuals in the civil service, particularly in DE&S, unfortunately, over the last few decades we have been paying peanuts....
Quite the opposite in fact. Show me a project manager in DE&S who has, say, 100 successful projects under his belt. A rare species indeed, yet 20 years ago such a man would be described as inexperienced if those projects did not include technologies across a raft of disciplines and in every phase of the procurement cycle (Concept to Disposal).
By contrast, many project managers have grossly inexperienced bosses who are little more than professional minutes secretaries, as they are completely devoid of original thought and relevant experience.
In short, the hierarchy is often upsidedown. Not everyone is paid peanuts - £40k is pretty good for writing minutes; but £30k is abysmal for someone holding airworthiness delegation, who does not see a promotion to minutes secretary as very inviting. They must start by placing value on the right skills and competence.
Gray was right, but Haddon-Cave may be the catalyst.
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Flame me, I care not, but here is the deal in my view:
1. The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight exists as a memorial to WW2 air warfare. Without which, we would be speaking German.
2. The costs of the BBMF should be borne from the public purse. The country required the services of those that are commemorated. Ergo, it should pay for their memorial.
3. If the country imposed a mere GBP 1000 charge on those immigrating to the country, such costs as the BBMF etc could be readily offset. Those that thought the charge unreasonable would be welcome to change their minds on their immigration plans.
MOD Civil Service bonuses are not part of the equation. They are our blokes too.
1. The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight exists as a memorial to WW2 air warfare. Without which, we would be speaking German.
2. The costs of the BBMF should be borne from the public purse. The country required the services of those that are commemorated. Ergo, it should pay for their memorial.
3. If the country imposed a mere GBP 1000 charge on those immigrating to the country, such costs as the BBMF etc could be readily offset. Those that thought the charge unreasonable would be welcome to change their minds on their immigration plans.
MOD Civil Service bonuses are not part of the equation. They are our blokes too.
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A debate on the continued, and indeed the source of, £3M required for the BBMF is well worth having.
Pitting that cost against civilian MOD colleagues salaries and pay awards was nothing more than cheap trolling by VIProds who has been remarkably silent since posting his first inflamatory and confontational post. Pathetic really.
Pitting that cost against civilian MOD colleagues salaries and pay awards was nothing more than cheap trolling by VIProds who has been remarkably silent since posting his first inflamatory and confontational post. Pathetic really.
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I am sorry you feel that way CK. I was just quoting what the "Mail" published, the figure of £3M for the BBMF looked insignificant against the MOD's £300M Bonuses. My thanks to AA & PN for pointing out the Bonuses are withheld from the pay pot, which I was not aware of, as I am sure were many others.
The only reason that I have been silent is that last week I have been ferrying my wife around Cancer Care Units & Hospitals. I even had to cancel a talk that I was to give at the North Lincs ACA, sorry Guys.
The only reason that I have been silent is that last week I have been ferrying my wife around Cancer Care Units & Hospitals. I even had to cancel a talk that I was to give at the North Lincs ACA, sorry Guys.
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Show me a project manager in DE&S who has, say, 100 successful projects under his belt. A rare species indeed,yet 20 years ago such a man would be described as inexperienced if those projects did not include technologies across a raft of disciplines and in every phase of the procurement cycle
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Fair enough VIP – the danger of sourcing information from the “Mail” I guess!
Sorry for being a tad brutal, I currently work with some MOD civvies who quietly beaver away doing a first class job on a very modest salary and who feel they have been totally pilloried by the press and certain politicians.
Problem is they are a nice soft all too easy target for the ill informed or those out to create mischief. I certainly feel that those of us in uniform (I presume you are/were - AL1, just spotted your age!) ought really to give them a break and not believe everything we read in the papers.
Sorry for being a tad brutal, I currently work with some MOD civvies who quietly beaver away doing a first class job on a very modest salary and who feel they have been totally pilloried by the press and certain politicians.
Problem is they are a nice soft all too easy target for the ill informed or those out to create mischief. I certainly feel that those of us in uniform (I presume you are/were - AL1, just spotted your age!) ought really to give them a break and not believe everything we read in the papers.
Let's not forget that not all civvies work in offices. I left the RAF after 23 years as a regular and then completed 3 years as FTRS.
I am now a civilian instructor working both in a simulator and the classroom. Moreover, I am heavily involved in Course Design, standardisation and can be employed in everything from basic to advanced instruction.
For all that the RAF get my expertise, experience and continuity for about 40% of the cost of the same individual in uniform. I therefore represent a significant saving (IMHO!).
I am not saying that we cannot be replaced/axed but to do so would deprive the military of a rich source of experience and expertise.
I am now a civilian instructor working both in a simulator and the classroom. Moreover, I am heavily involved in Course Design, standardisation and can be employed in everything from basic to advanced instruction.
For all that the RAF get my expertise, experience and continuity for about 40% of the cost of the same individual in uniform. I therefore represent a significant saving (IMHO!).
I am not saying that we cannot be replaced/axed but to do so would deprive the military of a rich source of experience and expertise.
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Originally Posted by Jimlad1
The bonus system was forced on the MOD by one Mr Gordon Brown several years ago, over very strong complaints by MOD staff.
