Chinook - Hit Back Here
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Ben,
thanks for the e-mail address. I'll let you know how I get on, and whether I get a reply.
Regards
Brian
[email protected]
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
thanks for the e-mail address. I'll let you know how I get on, and whether I get a reply.
Regards
Brian
[email protected]
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Guest
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My MP(con) has replied to the effect that it "is imperative that the MoD immediately reopen the inquiry". He also tells me that they are committed to do so when they return to power - sadly not much hope there then.
I will keep up the pressure.
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"If you keep doing what you've always done, you will keep getting what you've always got"
I will keep up the pressure.
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"If you keep doing what you've always done, you will keep getting what you've always got"
Guest
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Have received replies from the Prime Minister's office, the Shadow Secretary of State for Defence and a Cabinet Minister who is an old mate. The most positive letter in terms of this campaign is that from Iain Duncan Smith:
"Our party's position is that there should be an independent enquiry - I do not prejudge the outcome, we believe it is in the Ministry of Defence's interests to clear the air so that future enquiries are not hamstrung by constant reference to this enquiry.
As an ex-serviceman, I think that the announcement of a new enquiry would only enhance the reputation of the Ministry of Defence rather than damage it. As it stands at the moment this constant attack on the RAF weakens morale and makes servicemen feel that they will not get a fair hearing from a military court, and that is a wrong assumption.
Way to go Iain! You know who to write to guys.
"Our party's position is that there should be an independent enquiry - I do not prejudge the outcome, we believe it is in the Ministry of Defence's interests to clear the air so that future enquiries are not hamstrung by constant reference to this enquiry.
As an ex-serviceman, I think that the announcement of a new enquiry would only enhance the reputation of the Ministry of Defence rather than damage it. As it stands at the moment this constant attack on the RAF weakens morale and makes servicemen feel that they will not get a fair hearing from a military court, and that is a wrong assumption.
Way to go Iain! You know who to write to guys.
Guest
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Sunday Telegraph 17 Dec 2000:
Lost note could absolve pilots of Chinook
By Rajeev Syal
A SEARCH has been launched for a letter that could prove the innocence of two RAF Chinook helicopter pilots blamed for causing the deaths of 20 intelligence officers in a crash on the Mull of Kintyre in 1994.
The crew's handwritten and signed note outlining their safety concerns for the aircraft was sent just hours before the disaster, according to Lord Chalfont, the chairman of the House of Lord's defence committee.
The National Audit Office has been asked to conduct the search for the document in RAF archives so that the Ministry of Defence can forestall allegations of a Government cover-up.
The MoD blames Flt Lts Jonathan Trapper and Rick Cook for the disaster. The helicopter crashed while carrying Britain's most senior intelligence officers from Northern Ireland to a meeting in Scotland.
It emerged yesterday that Lord Chalfont was told of the note's existence two weeks ago by a serving senior officer in the RAF who contacted him anonymously. Lord Chalfont said that the Government should reopen its inquiry into the crash.
"I am convinced that this man is telling the truth but, because of the friction over the last inquiry, he does not want to speak on the record and risk his career. The Government must take this seriously. Any new discovery would be of enormous comfort to the pilots' loved ones."
The new witness was told of the note's existence - and was read its contents - just hours before the fatal crash. According to Lord Chalfont, the military record of the witness, who was serving at RAF Aldergrove in Northern Ireland at the time, is "impeccable". It is understood that the note, sent to senior officers, questioned the safety of computer software that controls fuel flow.
Both pilots were believed to be worried by the new technology in the helicopter's Fadec - full authority digital engine control - system. Hours after the note was sent the helicopter crashed.
The anonymous officer contacted Lord Chalfont two weeks ago after reading reports that Tony Blair, the Prime Minister, had rejected calls from a powerful House of Commons committee for a new inquiry. The public accounts select committee had said that the MoD's ruling is unsustainable because pilot error could not be proved beyond doubt.
Its members had examined the findings of an RAF board of inquiry led by two air marshals. David Davis MP, the chairman of the committee, said that it pointed to "a major miscarriage of justice". Concerns have persisted about the safety of the Chinook since the crash. John Cook, the father of Flt Lt Cook, said: "My boy is a scapegoat for the Government. I hope that they find the note. One wonders what else is hidden away."
Mr Cook, a former training captain on Concorde, added that his son had voiced his concerns about the helicopter's safety record. He said: "He took me for a walk in his garden and told me he was worried about the aircraft and asked me to look after his wife and daughter if anything should happen."
An MoD spokesman urged the anonymous RAF officer to come forward. "This person should be reassured that his career will not be in danger. We want to know the truth."
Lost note could absolve pilots of Chinook
By Rajeev Syal
A SEARCH has been launched for a letter that could prove the innocence of two RAF Chinook helicopter pilots blamed for causing the deaths of 20 intelligence officers in a crash on the Mull of Kintyre in 1994.
The crew's handwritten and signed note outlining their safety concerns for the aircraft was sent just hours before the disaster, according to Lord Chalfont, the chairman of the House of Lord's defence committee.
The National Audit Office has been asked to conduct the search for the document in RAF archives so that the Ministry of Defence can forestall allegations of a Government cover-up.
The MoD blames Flt Lts Jonathan Trapper and Rick Cook for the disaster. The helicopter crashed while carrying Britain's most senior intelligence officers from Northern Ireland to a meeting in Scotland.
It emerged yesterday that Lord Chalfont was told of the note's existence two weeks ago by a serving senior officer in the RAF who contacted him anonymously. Lord Chalfont said that the Government should reopen its inquiry into the crash.
"I am convinced that this man is telling the truth but, because of the friction over the last inquiry, he does not want to speak on the record and risk his career. The Government must take this seriously. Any new discovery would be of enormous comfort to the pilots' loved ones."
The new witness was told of the note's existence - and was read its contents - just hours before the fatal crash. According to Lord Chalfont, the military record of the witness, who was serving at RAF Aldergrove in Northern Ireland at the time, is "impeccable". It is understood that the note, sent to senior officers, questioned the safety of computer software that controls fuel flow.
Both pilots were believed to be worried by the new technology in the helicopter's Fadec - full authority digital engine control - system. Hours after the note was sent the helicopter crashed.
The anonymous officer contacted Lord Chalfont two weeks ago after reading reports that Tony Blair, the Prime Minister, had rejected calls from a powerful House of Commons committee for a new inquiry. The public accounts select committee had said that the MoD's ruling is unsustainable because pilot error could not be proved beyond doubt.
Its members had examined the findings of an RAF board of inquiry led by two air marshals. David Davis MP, the chairman of the committee, said that it pointed to "a major miscarriage of justice". Concerns have persisted about the safety of the Chinook since the crash. John Cook, the father of Flt Lt Cook, said: "My boy is a scapegoat for the Government. I hope that they find the note. One wonders what else is hidden away."
Mr Cook, a former training captain on Concorde, added that his son had voiced his concerns about the helicopter's safety record. He said: "He took me for a walk in his garden and told me he was worried about the aircraft and asked me to look after his wife and daughter if anything should happen."
An MoD spokesman urged the anonymous RAF officer to come forward. "This person should be reassured that his career will not be in danger. We want to know the truth."
Guest
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Dear MoD spokesperson,
If you don't know the truth already, how can you uphold the verdict of negligence???
Brian
[email protected]
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
If you don't know the truth already, how can you uphold the verdict of negligence???
Brian
[email protected]
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Guest
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If MoD are that keen, it shouldn't be hard to work out. Wedgie's retired so the possibilities can't range far beyond Mr Blobby, Supermario, OC 230 and SLOps. Hardly a case for Mulder & Scully I would think.
The truth is out there ...
[This message has been edited by misterploppy (edited 17 December 2000).]
The truth is out there ...
[This message has been edited by misterploppy (edited 17 December 2000).]
Guest
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ok, so the Government has now decided that a investigate of matters before the accident. Good, well not only the PTIT(FADEC part fault) needs to be investigated but more importantly the RNS Navi computer fault. In all probablity it was the RNS at fault since if the engines had issues with control etc then it would have been obvious in the flight profile.
The PTIT and RNS faults where all reported to
Eng in NI before the flight.
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The PTIT and RNS faults where all reported to
Eng in NI before the flight.
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Guest
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I have just received a reply from 10 Downing Street to my letter sent some time ago. It is from a minion, who points out that BLiar gets many letters and that because of the subject matter my letter has been passed on to the Ministry of Defence to answer.
This, of course conveniently misses the whole point of me writing to the PM - that he is the only person who can over-rule Buff and his cronies. Doh!
This, of course conveniently misses the whole point of me writing to the PM - that he is the only person who can over-rule Buff and his cronies. Doh!
Guest
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1.3VStall
An MP once told me never to underestimate the value of writing letters to MP's. They feel obliged to reply and it all takes resources which they would rather not have to do. So don't be discouraged and keep writing.
Having said that I have not received any reply from Mr Hoon after three weeks! What does that say about him?
Another action you might like to take is to vote for the "Villian of the Year" through BBC Radio 4 Today. Politicians are exempt but I am sure that you could think of someone else.
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"If you keep doing what you've always done, you will keep getting what you've always got"
An MP once told me never to underestimate the value of writing letters to MP's. They feel obliged to reply and it all takes resources which they would rather not have to do. So don't be discouraged and keep writing.
Having said that I have not received any reply from Mr Hoon after three weeks! What does that say about him?
Another action you might like to take is to vote for the "Villian of the Year" through BBC Radio 4 Today. Politicians are exempt but I am sure that you could think of someone else.
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"If you keep doing what you've always done, you will keep getting what you've always got"
Guest
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Reference the Radio 4 Heroes and villians:
<A HREF="http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/heroes_and_villains/heroes_and_villains.shtml" TARGET="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/heroes_and_villains/heroes_and_villains.shtml</A>
My vote is in!
<A HREF="http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/heroes_and_villains/heroes_and_villains.shtml" TARGET="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/heroes_and_villains/heroes_and_villains.shtml</A>
My vote is in!
Guest
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MacGregor my MP has replied to my letter:
"Dear Mr Stik,
Thank you for your letter of 7 December.
I was very interested to see your comments. You will know that we in oppostion have been pursuing this matter and you may have seen that Sir Malcolm Rifkin the former Conservative Secretary of State for Defence, now believes that the matter should now be subjected to a new Inquiry.
I am quite sure that my good friend and colleague, David Davies, who is the Chairman of the Public Inquiries Committee, will be continuing to pursue this. I have in fact already talked to him about it and will do so again.
Yours sincerely,
JM
I await responses from both Hoon and Blair and will write to them again on 7 Jan asking them to explain the lack of response if they have not reverted before.
sNr
"Dear Mr Stik,
Thank you for your letter of 7 December.
I was very interested to see your comments. You will know that we in oppostion have been pursuing this matter and you may have seen that Sir Malcolm Rifkin the former Conservative Secretary of State for Defence, now believes that the matter should now be subjected to a new Inquiry.
I am quite sure that my good friend and colleague, David Davies, who is the Chairman of the Public Inquiries Committee, will be continuing to pursue this. I have in fact already talked to him about it and will do so again.
Yours sincerely,
JM
I await responses from both Hoon and Blair and will write to them again on 7 Jan asking them to explain the lack of response if they have not reverted before.
sNr
Guest
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My vote's in too. At least he has doubled his vote tally!!
Did you all know that Boards of Inquiry are convened under statutory authority. The rules of procedure provide that the power to convene, or re-open a RAF BoI may be exercised by any two members of the Air Force Board of the Defence Council.
Here's the list of members:
Rt Hon Geoffrey Hoon MP
Secretary of State for Defence
Mr John Spellar MP
Minister of State for the Armed Forces
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
Minister of State for Defence Procurement
Dr Lewis Moonie MP
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Defence
Air Chief Marshal Sir Peter Squire
Chief of the Air Staff
Mr R T Jackling
Second Permanent Under Secretary
Air Chief Marshal Sir Anthony Bagnall
Commander-in-Chief Strike Command
Air Marshal Sir John Day
Air Member for Personnel
Commander-in Chief Personnel and Training Command
Air Marshal Sir Peter Norris
Controller Aircraft
Air Vice Marshal G E Stirrup
Assistant Chief of the Air Staff
Air Vice Marshall P W Henderson
Director General of Equipment Support (Air)
Just thought you may like to know.
Well done to all those who have had replies to their letters. Keep up the pressure!! Don't forget to send them stacks of questions as they love to find the answers for you.
Regards
Brian
[email protected]
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Did you all know that Boards of Inquiry are convened under statutory authority. The rules of procedure provide that the power to convene, or re-open a RAF BoI may be exercised by any two members of the Air Force Board of the Defence Council.
Here's the list of members:
Rt Hon Geoffrey Hoon MP
Secretary of State for Defence
Mr John Spellar MP
Minister of State for the Armed Forces
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
Minister of State for Defence Procurement
Dr Lewis Moonie MP
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Defence
Air Chief Marshal Sir Peter Squire
Chief of the Air Staff
Mr R T Jackling
Second Permanent Under Secretary
Air Chief Marshal Sir Anthony Bagnall
Commander-in-Chief Strike Command
Air Marshal Sir John Day
Air Member for Personnel
Commander-in Chief Personnel and Training Command
Air Marshal Sir Peter Norris
Controller Aircraft
Air Vice Marshal G E Stirrup
Assistant Chief of the Air Staff
Air Vice Marshall P W Henderson
Director General of Equipment Support (Air)
Just thought you may like to know.
Well done to all those who have had replies to their letters. Keep up the pressure!! Don't forget to send them stacks of questions as they love to find the answers for you.
Regards
Brian
[email protected]
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Guest
Posts: n/a
I voted too; anything to raise the profile.
I am just an ordinary PPL, but the ramifications of this case are awful. If sensible accident reporting, and learning from the accidents can not happen in the RAF then where can it happen?
And it makes me angry that two innocent men have been villified in this way. What <u>are</> the RAF or the MoD trying to hide. Bad decision making in accepting the Chinook's FADEC etc? Something more "secret" and affecting our National Security? I thought this government was one that believed in Freedom of Information :-(
I am just an ordinary PPL, but the ramifications of this case are awful. If sensible accident reporting, and learning from the accidents can not happen in the RAF then where can it happen?
And it makes me angry that two innocent men have been villified in this way. What <u>are</> the RAF or the MoD trying to hide. Bad decision making in accepting the Chinook's FADEC etc? Something more "secret" and affecting our National Security? I thought this government was one that believed in Freedom of Information :-(
Guest
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Voted on R4 as well - keep it up.
Can I sound a note of caution about re-opening BOI? This may not be the best option to pursue - a BOI would be under the control of the RAF and may not be the best thing to clear the guys' names. When you are writing to MPs etc keep the points general - there has been an obvious miscariage of justice on the existing evidence alone; no new evidence is needed.
Get your MP or whoever to support the Mull Of Kintyre Group; Lord Chalfont is pressing for a select committee to re-examine the case. This is by far the best means to bring Wratten & Day to account.
Seasons greetings to all.
Can I sound a note of caution about re-opening BOI? This may not be the best option to pursue - a BOI would be under the control of the RAF and may not be the best thing to clear the guys' names. When you are writing to MPs etc keep the points general - there has been an obvious miscariage of justice on the existing evidence alone; no new evidence is needed.
Get your MP or whoever to support the Mull Of Kintyre Group; Lord Chalfont is pressing for a select committee to re-examine the case. This is by far the best means to bring Wratten & Day to account.
Seasons greetings to all.