Chinook - Hit Back Here
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Brian Dixon
I need to get in touch with you regarding the campaign - can you drop me a note of your email address please to [email protected]
Cheers
I need to get in touch with you regarding the campaign - can you drop me a note of your email address please to [email protected]
Cheers
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Has anyone else read Ian Bruce's recent article in The Herald? He is their geopolitical editor (whatever that is) but was their defence correspondent for many years and appears to have some very interesting contacts ...
The gist of the article suggests that the flight plan to Inverness was a deliberate spoof and the real destination was Macrahanish. They were flying low to avoid detection .. This is not impossible and, if you think about the local topography and lack of approach facilities does explain quite a lot, or am I being too naive in believing any press report?
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The gist of the article suggests that the flight plan to Inverness was a deliberate spoof and the real destination was Macrahanish. They were flying low to avoid detection .. This is not impossible and, if you think about the local topography and lack of approach facilities does explain quite a lot, or am I being too naive in believing any press report?
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Chocks,
You can e-mail me on:
[email protected]
Come to think of it, so can anyone else!
Regards all
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
You can e-mail me on:
[email protected]
Come to think of it, so can anyone else!
Regards all
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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I’m sorry if this sounds out of place, but I am looking for the William Wratton report so that I can criticise it for an English argumentative essay I am doing.
I would appreciate any help, as I do this because like most of you I know their has been an grave injustice carried out here.
I would appreciate any help, as I do this because like most of you I know their has been an grave injustice carried out here.
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Spacey,
the link you need is:
<A HREF="http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/06/18/stirevnws02007.html" TARGET="_blank">www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/06/18/stirevnws02007.html</A>
Don't forget John Nichol's reply:
<A HREF="http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/06/25/stirevnws01008.html" TARGET="_blank">www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/06/25/stirevnws01008.html</A>
Good luck with the homework. At least you can tell your teacher that you have done more than Minster Hoon!!
Regards
Brian
[email protected]
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
the link you need is:
<A HREF="http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/06/18/stirevnws02007.html" TARGET="_blank">www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/06/18/stirevnws02007.html</A>
Don't forget John Nichol's reply:
<A HREF="http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/06/25/stirevnws01008.html" TARGET="_blank">www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/06/25/stirevnws01008.html</A>
Good luck with the homework. At least you can tell your teacher that you have done more than Minster Hoon!!
Regards
Brian
[email protected]
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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Re: Mail On Sunday (see Arkroyal's post on 3 Dec).
Has anyone (hopefully, serving around that time) heard about the existence of this "memo" talking about Jon and Rick's fears over UFCMs? I've been involved in this case for 5 years now and have never even heard a rumour about it. Even knowing the MOD and the two senior officers involved, I am having difficulty in comming to terms with the fact that someone has supressed a memo from two dead pilots talking about their fears for their safety. If it's true it will be earth shattering.
Anyone help out?
Has anyone (hopefully, serving around that time) heard about the existence of this "memo" talking about Jon and Rick's fears over UFCMs? I've been involved in this case for 5 years now and have never even heard a rumour about it. Even knowing the MOD and the two senior officers involved, I am having difficulty in comming to terms with the fact that someone has supressed a memo from two dead pilots talking about their fears for their safety. If it's true it will be earth shattering.
Anyone help out?
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I wouldn't be surprised.
I had a little dispute with the Service myself and it was only at ministerial stage that I had my 1369s disclosed. Strangely they didn't match the summary previously disclosed by Innsworth and included documents that I was unaware of. Numbered documents were filed out of order and there were reports that I had never been told about . Another guy I know was preparing a redress and an anonymous letter arrived containing a critical memo that Innsworth were concealing. I could go on since I have helped several people with redresses over the years. Innsworth, and indeed
MoD, policy is to deny the presence of all sorts of things until you can actually prove that they exist.
To the shredder and beyond!!!!!!
I had a little dispute with the Service myself and it was only at ministerial stage that I had my 1369s disclosed. Strangely they didn't match the summary previously disclosed by Innsworth and included documents that I was unaware of. Numbered documents were filed out of order and there were reports that I had never been told about . Another guy I know was preparing a redress and an anonymous letter arrived containing a critical memo that Innsworth were concealing. I could go on since I have helped several people with redresses over the years. Innsworth, and indeed
MoD, policy is to deny the presence of all sorts of things until you can actually prove that they exist.
To the shredder and beyond!!!!!!
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Mr Ploppy:
"Of course, he 'stormed off the pitch' at the RAeS when he couldn't take the flak there over this issue:"
Please explain.
Everyone, this speculation that Pilgarlick is Wratten, and that dear Johnny Wrotten himself is a transvestite, or that he can't be cos transvestites tend to be straight, or references to 'deep dark secrets' and to his singularly 'appropriate' 'screaming' E-address may be in danger of getting libellous. Most amusing, but.....
It's a shame that this is the case, because even today, any revelation as to his sexuality would tend to undermine his credibility.
"Of course, he 'stormed off the pitch' at the RAeS when he couldn't take the flak there over this issue:"
Please explain.
Everyone, this speculation that Pilgarlick is Wratten, and that dear Johnny Wrotten himself is a transvestite, or that he can't be cos transvestites tend to be straight, or references to 'deep dark secrets' and to his singularly 'appropriate' 'screaming' E-address may be in danger of getting libellous. Most amusing, but.....
It's a shame that this is the case, because even today, any revelation as to his sexuality would tend to undermine his credibility.
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Titan locked
Yup it worked fine and saved me a walk and cost of the rag!
John (Farley) Thanks for your support. Yes, I think we cautiously scent victory. Your voice will speak louder than most of ours, so may I respectfully ask you to join us and use it in the right places?
John (Nichol) Agree with that. Bombshell indeed. I do remember from one of the Channel 4 progs one of the Pilots' fathers mentioning that they had put in writing their concerns. Did you note from the article:
"Asked if the memo existed, an MoD spokesman replied: ‘Nobody is aware of the existence of any memo that you described. There is a lot of information that has been flying back and forth. We would have no reason to hide a memo like that. We have been as open as we can be.’"
Standard woolly MOD denial that can be gone back on if necessary.
Yup it worked fine and saved me a walk and cost of the rag!
John (Farley) Thanks for your support. Yes, I think we cautiously scent victory. Your voice will speak louder than most of ours, so may I respectfully ask you to join us and use it in the right places?
John (Nichol) Agree with that. Bombshell indeed. I do remember from one of the Channel 4 progs one of the Pilots' fathers mentioning that they had put in writing their concerns. Did you note from the article:
"Asked if the memo existed, an MoD spokesman replied: ‘Nobody is aware of the existence of any memo that you described. There is a lot of information that has been flying back and forth. We would have no reason to hide a memo like that. We have been as open as we can be.’"
Standard woolly MOD denial that can be gone back on if necessary.
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Jacko,
Good comments about Wratten. Please be aware everyone, the last thing the campaign needs is to be accused of libel.
Re the RAeS. Three senior members (fellows I think) came up with a v. critical report on the Day/Wratten conclusions. Wratten threatened to resign if the RAeS continued to allow criticism of his actions to be aired. A pretty mature stance to take, I think we would all agree!. They did, so he walked. And a sad loss it was to the world of aviation.
Good comments about Wratten. Please be aware everyone, the last thing the campaign needs is to be accused of libel.
Re the RAeS. Three senior members (fellows I think) came up with a v. critical report on the Day/Wratten conclusions. Wratten threatened to resign if the RAeS continued to allow criticism of his actions to be aired. A pretty mature stance to take, I think we would all agree!. They did, so he walked. And a sad loss it was to the world of aviation.
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Brian, JN etc
If you haven't seen it already there is a live "Ask The Prime Minister" show on ITV on 12 Dec (1900hrs) [I'm assuming something like this must be national, not just the southern region]. Questions can be logged in advance by calling 0870 242 5666 (charged at national rate) or by e-mail at [email protected].
Some of the questions will be put to the PM live, including by members of the studio audience.
In your own time, carry on . . .
If you haven't seen it already there is a live "Ask The Prime Minister" show on ITV on 12 Dec (1900hrs) [I'm assuming something like this must be national, not just the southern region]. Questions can be logged in advance by calling 0870 242 5666 (charged at national rate) or by e-mail at [email protected].
Some of the questions will be put to the PM live, including by members of the studio audience.
In your own time, carry on . . .
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Jackonicko and John Nichol,
Re the RAeS, Wratten did indeed resign his Fellowship. It was certainly over direct criticism of his finding. However, if my memory serves me correctly his petulant little gesture was over some correspondence in the in-house magazine "Aerospace", or it may have been an article.
Either way, researching back copies of the mag will reveal what made Wratten leave that august body. As you say, some loss eh?
Re the RAeS, Wratten did indeed resign his Fellowship. It was certainly over direct criticism of his finding. However, if my memory serves me correctly his petulant little gesture was over some correspondence in the in-house magazine "Aerospace", or it may have been an article.
Either way, researching back copies of the mag will reveal what made Wratten leave that august body. As you say, some loss eh?
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For a 'Definition of Libel' - see Aircrew Notices:
<A HREF="http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum41/HTML/001258-2.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum41/HTML/001258-2.html</A>
Incidentally, had Rick or John survived and ACM Wratten come to the same conclusion without any real evidence, it is probable that they could have sued for libel. You can't, however, libel the dead.
Thus far I doubt whether anyone has transgressed.
You should, however, be careful.
If you were to say 'W****** is gay', without any proof, then that could be construed as libel.
If you were to say, 'In my opinion W****** behaves as if he were gay', then that is less likely to be taken as libel unless you were malicious. You must still have a reasonable basis for your opinion.
The fact that many individuals are challenging Wratten's performance as a senior officer could be libellous, if it were not for the fact that you could use the defence of fair comment, with the Public Accounts Committee as your witnesses.
If you quote from the PAC you commit no libel if all you are doing is reporting the proceedings of Parliament, which are, as we all know, absolutely privileged!
If you want to say nasty things about anybody, become an MP and indulge yourself until the Speaker throws you out for a couple of days.
[This message has been edited by Paul Wesson (edited 05 December 2000).]
<A HREF="http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum41/HTML/001258-2.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum41/HTML/001258-2.html</A>
Incidentally, had Rick or John survived and ACM Wratten come to the same conclusion without any real evidence, it is probable that they could have sued for libel. You can't, however, libel the dead.
Thus far I doubt whether anyone has transgressed.
You should, however, be careful.
If you were to say 'W****** is gay', without any proof, then that could be construed as libel.
If you were to say, 'In my opinion W****** behaves as if he were gay', then that is less likely to be taken as libel unless you were malicious. You must still have a reasonable basis for your opinion.
The fact that many individuals are challenging Wratten's performance as a senior officer could be libellous, if it were not for the fact that you could use the defence of fair comment, with the Public Accounts Committee as your witnesses.
If you quote from the PAC you commit no libel if all you are doing is reporting the proceedings of Parliament, which are, as we all know, absolutely privileged!
If you want to say nasty things about anybody, become an MP and indulge yourself until the Speaker throws you out for a couple of days.
[This message has been edited by Paul Wesson (edited 05 December 2000).]
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Am I missing something?
Pilots found guilty of gross negligence without any proof!
Surely this is slander and defamation? Why can't Wratten and Day be taken to a civil court over their unfound statements?
Is there nothing that the families of the deceased pilots can sue for?
Pilots found guilty of gross negligence without any proof!
Surely this is slander and defamation? Why can't Wratten and Day be taken to a civil court over their unfound statements?
Is there nothing that the families of the deceased pilots can sue for?