Navigators
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Although I will never admit this in public, some pilots actually benefit from the presence of a Nav. If we were all as good as we think we are then we'd have all gone single seat - I for one am prepared to accept that the presence of a Nav has helped me to do MY job to date.
It does look however as if the old and bold of the E-3D are going to be removed from the flight deck in the not to distant future and I for one am concerned enough about the quality of our new breed of pilots to think that this may be a bad idea. Okay so the Spec Aircrew mate who wets himself, drinks tea, eats biscuits and falls asleep is not up to much but they are in the minority, the rest of them (If I am to be brutally honest) will be missed - and not just 'cos I'll have to carry my own bags!
Go Nav and make life easier for people like me!
It does look however as if the old and bold of the E-3D are going to be removed from the flight deck in the not to distant future and I for one am concerned enough about the quality of our new breed of pilots to think that this may be a bad idea. Okay so the Spec Aircrew mate who wets himself, drinks tea, eats biscuits and falls asleep is not up to much but they are in the minority, the rest of them (If I am to be brutally honest) will be missed - and not just 'cos I'll have to carry my own bags!
Go Nav and make life easier for people like me!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: A Hole
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Carl,
As you may gather from my log in name, I am a Nav, and still serving.
Don't worry about the 'dying breed' banter, these at least 15 years of GR4 back seat jobs to be done (so we are told).
As for jobs afterwards...well!
I am coming to the end of my 20 years (yep, stupid enough to join at 18) and have put out a few feelers. I got a professional company to write a CV for me and have sent it to a few companies around the bazaars, none of which have anything to do with flying. I have had 3 replies (from 6 letters) all of which offer a job, pending interview, and all start on a salary at least 1.5 times that what I will end my service career on.
A lot of civvy companies employ ex RAF because of the general training and attitude to working you have when you serve in the Forces.
Don't take any notice of the shallow banter from people above - it just doesn't happen in the fast jet world (not the mud mover world anyway and who wants to be a fighter pilot - more time in front of a mirror than doing a decent job).
Go for Nav mate - you will not regret it.
T&G
As you may gather from my log in name, I am a Nav, and still serving.
Don't worry about the 'dying breed' banter, these at least 15 years of GR4 back seat jobs to be done (so we are told).
As for jobs afterwards...well!
I am coming to the end of my 20 years (yep, stupid enough to join at 18) and have put out a few feelers. I got a professional company to write a CV for me and have sent it to a few companies around the bazaars, none of which have anything to do with flying. I have had 3 replies (from 6 letters) all of which offer a job, pending interview, and all start on a salary at least 1.5 times that what I will end my service career on.
A lot of civvy companies employ ex RAF because of the general training and attitude to working you have when you serve in the Forces.
Don't take any notice of the shallow banter from people above - it just doesn't happen in the fast jet world (not the mud mover world anyway and who wants to be a fighter pilot - more time in front of a mirror than doing a decent job).
Go for Nav mate - you will not regret it.
T&G
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Too close to Bedford
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Jimmifly, this laughing stock and lots of my mates have the keys to the station gas chamber. Are YOU in date?
Be a shame if the database lost your records every 3 months.
And back to Navs - please!
Be a shame if the database lost your records every 3 months.
And back to Navs - please!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Cardiff, United Kingdom
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Thanks all!
But need to ask something else now as well.
Just got a letter through this morning from the university air squadron saying that I have a final board interview and if I pass that I've got to go for a medical at Cranwell.
The problem is that I failed the eyesight requirement for Pilot when I went for my flying scholarship.
Will they offer me a place at UAS if I don't pass the pilot requirements?
For example, as I wish to join the RAF as a Nav, will they still let me in to the UAS if I pass the interview etc?
Any help on this will be brill!
Cheers all for your help!
But need to ask something else now as well.
Just got a letter through this morning from the university air squadron saying that I have a final board interview and if I pass that I've got to go for a medical at Cranwell.
The problem is that I failed the eyesight requirement for Pilot when I went for my flying scholarship.
Will they offer me a place at UAS if I don't pass the pilot requirements?
For example, as I wish to join the RAF as a Nav, will they still let me in to the UAS if I pass the interview etc?
Any help on this will be brill!
Cheers all for your help!
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Carl,
I was a nav I am an F3 pilot. If I could get my hands on the prats who lied to me at OASC and IOT I would quite happily throttle them. They will and do lie like cheap persian rugs. My advise is:
1. Don't be a nav. I enjoyed myself as a nav, but I was the first nav in 5 years to get a cross over, there have been others since but they will also tell you that the numbers are few and getting fewer. There is however a huge list of navs who are wondering what to do now as the RAF crumbles and they need a job outside. If you have ambition look elsewhere because your exit date creeps up scarely quickly.
2. Tell them you want to be a pilot full stop. If your eyesight is correctable you can do the job. They have only introduced different requirements recently because they can't con people in to being navs.
3. If they offer you anything else tell them to ram it, and that includes the UAS.
Don't anyone get me wrong. I think navs are great and the few moments of clarity I can recall were a hoot, but their future is not bright and a branch change after a tour does squat for you aviation or RAF career.
I was a nav I am an F3 pilot. If I could get my hands on the prats who lied to me at OASC and IOT I would quite happily throttle them. They will and do lie like cheap persian rugs. My advise is:
1. Don't be a nav. I enjoyed myself as a nav, but I was the first nav in 5 years to get a cross over, there have been others since but they will also tell you that the numbers are few and getting fewer. There is however a huge list of navs who are wondering what to do now as the RAF crumbles and they need a job outside. If you have ambition look elsewhere because your exit date creeps up scarely quickly.
2. Tell them you want to be a pilot full stop. If your eyesight is correctable you can do the job. They have only introduced different requirements recently because they can't con people in to being navs.
3. If they offer you anything else tell them to ram it, and that includes the UAS.
Don't anyone get me wrong. I think navs are great and the few moments of clarity I can recall were a hoot, but their future is not bright and a branch change after a tour does squat for you aviation or RAF career.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: World
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Man Cub
Your timing is immaculate. I am imminently due to have the painters in and you have caught me at my very best
I am at home now and cannot for the life of me remember my log in code for this BB. My computer at work comes up with it automatically. My husband will, therefore, have to forgive me for login on with his user ID. He's out anyway.
Me venomous? You're directing your comment at the wrong Pruner. I don't have to justify myself or my comments to you or anyone else. If you are truly interested then you can e-mail me at [email protected].
I note, with interest, that your e-mail is inaccessible. Why am I not surprised?
If you are just out to sh*t stir then why don't you keep your gob shut if you don't know what you are talking about. Just a suggestion.
If you don't want to communicate with me then I am sure BEagle will fill you in.
Some people need to get a life and stay out of mine. They have obviously not done anything remotely interesting in the last 7 or so years or they wouldn't feel the need to keep kicking me and my daughter (who reads this forum) for something someone else did. Right?
Tron Trellis this means you ...
and Clear Astern, oh and Smooth Approach. Stoppers has been a bit dodgy at times. Let's see, oh yes Richard, you really ARE the pitts ... oh and the guy in the green car who drives along Ashfield - you really are very sad.
Is that enough? Don't mess with women with splitting migranes OK? They tend to bite your arse!
If anyone wants a flame war, bring it on.
[ 05 October 2001: Message edited by: Nil nos tremefacit ]
Your timing is immaculate. I am imminently due to have the painters in and you have caught me at my very best
I am at home now and cannot for the life of me remember my log in code for this BB. My computer at work comes up with it automatically. My husband will, therefore, have to forgive me for login on with his user ID. He's out anyway.
Me venomous? You're directing your comment at the wrong Pruner. I don't have to justify myself or my comments to you or anyone else. If you are truly interested then you can e-mail me at [email protected].
I note, with interest, that your e-mail is inaccessible. Why am I not surprised?
If you are just out to sh*t stir then why don't you keep your gob shut if you don't know what you are talking about. Just a suggestion.
If you don't want to communicate with me then I am sure BEagle will fill you in.
Some people need to get a life and stay out of mine. They have obviously not done anything remotely interesting in the last 7 or so years or they wouldn't feel the need to keep kicking me and my daughter (who reads this forum) for something someone else did. Right?
Tron Trellis this means you ...
and Clear Astern, oh and Smooth Approach. Stoppers has been a bit dodgy at times. Let's see, oh yes Richard, you really ARE the pitts ... oh and the guy in the green car who drives along Ashfield - you really are very sad.
Is that enough? Don't mess with women with splitting migranes OK? They tend to bite your arse!
If anyone wants a flame war, bring it on.
[ 05 October 2001: Message edited by: Nil nos tremefacit ]
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Oooooops
I appear to have stumbled into someone else's war (of which I want no part)....bye bye.
Oh, before I go...Mistress....I really do prefer it if only people that know me call me a ********.
I appear to have stumbled into someone else's war (of which I want no part)....bye bye.
Oh, before I go...Mistress....I really do prefer it if only people that know me call me a ********.
Join Date: May 2000
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Man B
Would you care to point out where, in any of my posts, I called YOU a ********. I was referring to someone else entirely. You must be such a sensitive soul. I would apologise except you've mow interfered in something that was none of your concern. I had to look back through the thread to see what you had said. I thought your post was quite amusing actually.
Would you care to point out where, in any of my posts, I called YOU a ********. I was referring to someone else entirely. You must be such a sensitive soul. I would apologise except you've mow interfered in something that was none of your concern. I had to look back through the thread to see what you had said. I thought your post was quite amusing actually.
Hi TM - good to see the fiery rhetoric back in action!
Carl - how did the medical go? I don't know whether the UAS has the same eyesight requirements as the RAF, but best of luck all the same. If you join UWAS, there are some excellent people there. Perhaps the folk at Cranwell can give you a better idea of the future of the WSO (yuk - hate the new name!) branch; I guess you'll just get the same old 'sooner have the fuel' etc comments on here. But I'm pretty sure that many GR4 pilots are glad of the nav's presence and I think it's fair to say that even the civilians bidding for FSTA are NOT convinced that the AAR role can be satisfactorily accomplished by 2 pilots alone.....much to the chagrin of the bean-counters!
As to what navs do when they leave the RAF? Some with pilot aptitude etc work towards civil qualifications whilst in the service and then get CPL/IRs and try for the airlines (But ALWAYS get a Class 1 medical before you do anything else if you are thinking of that route), whilst others work for major defence companies or as well-paid consultants.
PS, TM - no mention of NilnosT's rail project in the 2011 Local Plan. Is it still being progressed?? It would be an interesting twist of history if an ex-navigator 'built' (as in 'was responsible for the building of', not 'wielded a pickaxe to dig the line himself'!) a railway again, for the original builders of the line were, according to local history, a genial group of 'navvies', a term derived from the canal builders or 'navigators' of the 18th and 19th centuries, but which later became a generic term for any group of artisans! (Explanation for the benefit of our younger readers)
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
....and before anyone accuses me, no I don't remember the 18th or 19th centuries!!
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
Carl - how did the medical go? I don't know whether the UAS has the same eyesight requirements as the RAF, but best of luck all the same. If you join UWAS, there are some excellent people there. Perhaps the folk at Cranwell can give you a better idea of the future of the WSO (yuk - hate the new name!) branch; I guess you'll just get the same old 'sooner have the fuel' etc comments on here. But I'm pretty sure that many GR4 pilots are glad of the nav's presence and I think it's fair to say that even the civilians bidding for FSTA are NOT convinced that the AAR role can be satisfactorily accomplished by 2 pilots alone.....much to the chagrin of the bean-counters!
As to what navs do when they leave the RAF? Some with pilot aptitude etc work towards civil qualifications whilst in the service and then get CPL/IRs and try for the airlines (But ALWAYS get a Class 1 medical before you do anything else if you are thinking of that route), whilst others work for major defence companies or as well-paid consultants.
PS, TM - no mention of NilnosT's rail project in the 2011 Local Plan. Is it still being progressed?? It would be an interesting twist of history if an ex-navigator 'built' (as in 'was responsible for the building of', not 'wielded a pickaxe to dig the line himself'!) a railway again, for the original builders of the line were, according to local history, a genial group of 'navvies', a term derived from the canal builders or 'navigators' of the 18th and 19th centuries, but which later became a generic term for any group of artisans! (Explanation for the benefit of our younger readers)
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
....and before anyone accuses me, no I don't remember the 18th or 19th centuries!!
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Cardiff, United Kingdom
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BEagle - I'm going for my final board interview for UAS on Wednesday and then if sucessful I have the medical 4 weeks later. So no news there yet.
Its not the UWAS I'm applying for. Even though my login shows that I'm from Cardiff, I'm at the university of Plymouth, so I'm applying for the Bristol University Air Squadron.
Thanks for the interest, I will post a reply on this board with the results.
Thanks to all that are helping.
Does anyone know how I can organise any work experience with the RAF?
Some of the posts have said that I should visit a front line station and speak to RAF aircrew. But I have no idea whether I can do that, or how I could organise such a trip. I pursume that I would telephone the relevant station and then work my way to speak to one of the squadrons. But if anyone knows an easier way....
Cheers all!
If anyone wants to know why I'm asking about Navs whislt applying for UAS... I'm thinking of leaving university or getting university sponsorship before joining!
Its not the UWAS I'm applying for. Even though my login shows that I'm from Cardiff, I'm at the university of Plymouth, so I'm applying for the Bristol University Air Squadron.
Thanks for the interest, I will post a reply on this board with the results.
Thanks to all that are helping.
Does anyone know how I can organise any work experience with the RAF?
Some of the posts have said that I should visit a front line station and speak to RAF aircrew. But I have no idea whether I can do that, or how I could organise such a trip. I pursume that I would telephone the relevant station and then work my way to speak to one of the squadrons. But if anyone knows an easier way....
Cheers all!
If anyone wants to know why I'm asking about Navs whislt applying for UAS... I'm thinking of leaving university or getting university sponsorship before joining!
Carl - if you're succesful in joining BUAS, then you should be able to get some assistance towards work in the summer vac. But what do you actually mean by 'work experience'? Various UAS chaps and ladies have had short term attachments with RAF squadrons, I don't know whether that's what you mean by 'work experience'?
Probably best to ask again when you've had the outcome of your UAS board. Good luck!
Probably best to ask again when you've had the outcome of your UAS board. Good luck!
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Carl - as a third year sponsored nav on the UAS I can thoroughly recommend the UAS and being a nav.You won't get all the pressure that it seems the pilots get put under and they'll give you enough hours to let you go first solo anyway. As long as you get past the medical for nav the UAS should take you.
Even if you don't get aircrew join the UAS anyway cos whatever anybody says it's still a cracking laugh.
Even if you don't get aircrew join the UAS anyway cos whatever anybody says it's still a cracking laugh.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Carl,
if you want to fly and this is your only chance then don't be a tosser worrying about the future. Join up and spend your youth on an F3, or if your not good enough, a GR1/4 sqn. I joined and spent 8 and a bit years having the best time of my life.
(allright i did pvr and leave but hey i look back with fond thoughts)
Dont in the name of god end up being a truckie nav. If you can't get thru FJ then leave and do whatever it is you wan't. It may be very intersting dropping sonar things in the sea or whatever but its not leading a 16 ship thru the nellis range's mate.
What to do when you leave....worry about it when it's time to go . i am now lucky enough to be an Fo for BA on the 737 (not sure how much longer though).
Get a short service and get stuck in.
Good luck.
Noody.
ps
My jet now has considerably more thrust/booze/birds and leather seats than most of yours.....enjoy
if you want to fly and this is your only chance then don't be a tosser worrying about the future. Join up and spend your youth on an F3, or if your not good enough, a GR1/4 sqn. I joined and spent 8 and a bit years having the best time of my life.
(allright i did pvr and leave but hey i look back with fond thoughts)
Dont in the name of god end up being a truckie nav. If you can't get thru FJ then leave and do whatever it is you wan't. It may be very intersting dropping sonar things in the sea or whatever but its not leading a 16 ship thru the nellis range's mate.
What to do when you leave....worry about it when it's time to go . i am now lucky enough to be an Fo for BA on the 737 (not sure how much longer though).
Get a short service and get stuck in.
Good luck.
Noody.
ps
My jet now has considerably more thrust/booze/birds and leather seats than most of yours.....enjoy