To a 'Warrant Officer'...
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To a 'Warrant Officer'...
To the 'gentleman' at the Cadet Site (Sports field) at RIAT who wanted a fellow staff member and myself arrested...
Sir,
In the first instance, my colleague and I answer to our CO and Sqn colleagues, not to a person who did not identify himself, and a person whose aggressive stance led us to believe that alcohol was involved. If not, and if this is your normal demeanour, you should seriously consider your place of responsibility with regards to young people.
Secondly, as First Aiders who had checked in with the 'Control Tent' and the 'Duty Staff', we did not see the need to consult you on our activities.
Thirdly, upon presenting yourself at our Sqn HQ, without introduction or explanation, and the utter contempt with which you treated several members of our Staff was a disgrace to those of your rank as well as your own unit.
I believe that your attitude was not borne out of regard for security (we both displayed our IDs and openly explained our reasons), nor for our purpose, but simply from a unreasonable dislike of our unit and the knowledge that you could not possibly come near the standards we set for the care and instruction of our charges, in that we do not threaten minors, we do not release tirades of abuse when vexed, we do not use the fire alarm to make an announcement, and we also know where our place is - your use of your rank seems simply to serve your own petty purposes.
You sir, are a disgrace.
I Sangster
Civilian Instructor
Air Training Corps
[ 01 August 2001: Message edited by: Mad Pax ]
Sir,
In the first instance, my colleague and I answer to our CO and Sqn colleagues, not to a person who did not identify himself, and a person whose aggressive stance led us to believe that alcohol was involved. If not, and if this is your normal demeanour, you should seriously consider your place of responsibility with regards to young people.
Secondly, as First Aiders who had checked in with the 'Control Tent' and the 'Duty Staff', we did not see the need to consult you on our activities.
Thirdly, upon presenting yourself at our Sqn HQ, without introduction or explanation, and the utter contempt with which you treated several members of our Staff was a disgrace to those of your rank as well as your own unit.
I believe that your attitude was not borne out of regard for security (we both displayed our IDs and openly explained our reasons), nor for our purpose, but simply from a unreasonable dislike of our unit and the knowledge that you could not possibly come near the standards we set for the care and instruction of our charges, in that we do not threaten minors, we do not release tirades of abuse when vexed, we do not use the fire alarm to make an announcement, and we also know where our place is - your use of your rank seems simply to serve your own petty purposes.
You sir, are a disgrace.
I Sangster
Civilian Instructor
Air Training Corps
[ 01 August 2001: Message edited by: Mad Pax ]
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Mad pax has a point i was a civian instructor for an ATC unit for some time and had to endure this type of thing once in a wile from the odd egomaniac ,the RAF seems to have this vocal minority who think that air cadet units are fair game for this type of abuse ,fortunatly this is off set by the vast majority of of RAF personnel of all ranks who will offer help far beond what is required of them.
As for some of the above replys i think that you should ask yourselfs what group you fall into.
[ 02 August 2001: Message edited by: A and C ]
As for some of the above replys i think that you should ask yourselfs what group you fall into.
[ 02 August 2001: Message edited by: A and C ]
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Mad Pax may well have a point but is this the place to air it and are we interested? Get on to RIAT and make a formal complaint if you want to, rather than using this place to publicise some personal problem.
A and C
I doubt many on this forum are even slightly interested in the topic of this thread. This is not the place for open letters of this nature. If you wish to discuss it further please contact Mad Pax directly and you can both sod off elsewhere together.
I doubt many on this forum are even slightly interested in the topic of this thread. This is not the place for open letters of this nature. If you wish to discuss it further please contact Mad Pax directly and you can both sod off elsewhere together.
Whilst the original topic might seem misplaced on the Military Aircrew forum, RIAT is a significant military recruiting event and if those who gave up their free time to work there have been treated badly, constructive suggestion rather than rudeness and abuse would perhaps have been rather more relevant.
I was at RIAT and the number of ATC Cadets etc. helping out obviously made things run smoother than would otherwise have been the case. Thanks for that guys, if you had difficulties with any regular personnel at Cottesmore, I suggest that your unit CO should write a formal letter to OC Cottesmore.
I was at RIAT and the number of ATC Cadets etc. helping out obviously made things run smoother than would otherwise have been the case. Thanks for that guys, if you had difficulties with any regular personnel at Cottesmore, I suggest that your unit CO should write a formal letter to OC Cottesmore.
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The individual in question is not regular service, but an Air Cadet Adult Staff member. After the occurrance, I was denied the redress, and being aware that there are people from my field who visit this site, I decided to vent my feelings here (as many do - are they all pointless, posting police? or should I just tear into OCB instead?).
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Free speech mateys, if he wants to set up a thread her then so be it. There are some pretty pointless threads around, created by Aircrew Ppruners. Even so I welcome every one on this forum with open arms. How typical of the RAF to put the boot in at the first opportunity. 
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Further to Mach's previous thread, and not wishing to incur the Wrath of Beagle (should be a film), may I humbly suggest in a suitably conciliatory for Mr B, that perhaps the Spaceys should have their own forum?
How 'bout it PpruneBoss?
Every other aviation-related sub-group seems to be catered for on this site. Even Engineers.
Just a thought, there seem to be a hell of a lot of them here.
How about " Military Wannabes". Imaginative I know but that's the creative sort of guy I am.
Gorilla, why 'typical' of the RAF to put the boot in first? Explain Monkeyboy!
How 'bout it PpruneBoss?
Every other aviation-related sub-group seems to be catered for on this site. Even Engineers.
Just a thought, there seem to be a hell of a lot of them here.
How about " Military Wannabes". Imaginative I know but that's the creative sort of guy I am.
Gorilla, why 'typical' of the RAF to put the boot in first? Explain Monkeyboy!
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Mad Pax,
The "Warrant Officer" in question has clearly done exactly what he set out to do - he got to you. If this is what one apparently pi$$ed up Serviceman can do to you, I dread to think how you'd cope with an aircraft full of testosterone-filled squaddies who are about to be imposed on the unsuspecting residents of Ulster, for example.
Save the harsh words for the REALLY serious times and until then lighten up and resort to humour, it always works and remember....YOUR day will come.
The "Warrant Officer" in question has clearly done exactly what he set out to do - he got to you. If this is what one apparently pi$$ed up Serviceman can do to you, I dread to think how you'd cope with an aircraft full of testosterone-filled squaddies who are about to be imposed on the unsuspecting residents of Ulster, for example.
Save the harsh words for the REALLY serious times and until then lighten up and resort to humour, it always works and remember....YOUR day will come.
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Talking Radalt; not having been under the circumstances that you mentioned, I would have to accept your point - but the situation is different, and humour had little place during this incident, particularly as it concerned the safety of young people, not squaddies.
Avoid imitations
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Mad Pax,
My sympathies. Next time try this.
Salute him then, as he responds, formalities over, punch his lights out. If he doesn't outrank you, then omit the salute. Don't be around when he wakes up.
The direct approach is often the best one to take as it cuts out a lot of telephone calls, paperwork and gives personal satisfaction that a good job has been done.
ShyT
My sympathies. Next time try this.
Salute him then, as he responds, formalities over, punch his lights out. If he doesn't outrank you, then omit the salute. Don't be around when he wakes up.
The direct approach is often the best one to take as it cuts out a lot of telephone calls, paperwork and gives personal satisfaction that a good job has been done.
ShyT
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Actually Pax, I'd agree with S'Torque, next time **** him or demonstrate the finer points of an aircraft fire axe.
After all the work you guys did it seems a pity it was spoilt.
After all the work you guys did it seems a pity it was spoilt.
Unfortunately, the world is full of sad acts who need to justify their importance to themselves by making life unpleasant for others. I have to agree with other correspondants....**** 'em and make their life VERY unpleasant.
My sympathy goes out to all those ATC cadets who usually do a fine job of helping out at these major events only to be abused in this way.
Doc C
My sympathy goes out to all those ATC cadets who usually do a fine job of helping out at these major events only to be abused in this way.
Doc C
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KwikPhix
Engineers are an aviation sub-species!
I hate all bullies. No need for it. Never understood how people find it so important to hurt other people. Pity I know so many of this type.
Engineers are an aviation sub-species!
I hate all bullies. No need for it. Never understood how people find it so important to hurt other people. Pity I know so many of this type.
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If it had not been for the intervention of a VR(T) Officer who rapidly diffused the situation with a manner that marked him as one of the few site staff with his head screwed on, a banjo session may have been on the cards; unfortunately, my colleage and I would have then been obliged to treat him...
