Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)
A really irritating PPRuNer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Just popping my head back up above the parapet
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chinook240,
as you can see, this is a very emotive topic. There are many differing, passionate viewpoints depending upon your own interpretation of the few available facts, and everyone is entitled to hold their viewpoint.
Apologies when, like yours - genuinely offered, go a long way to maintain the dignity that this topic deserves. (I've done it too!)
Respect
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
as you can see, this is a very emotive topic. There are many differing, passionate viewpoints depending upon your own interpretation of the few available facts, and everyone is entitled to hold their viewpoint.
Apologies when, like yours - genuinely offered, go a long way to maintain the dignity that this topic deserves. (I've done it too!)
Respect
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,634
Received 513 Likes
on
273 Posts
Chinook 240,
Apology accepted. (I was also 240 OCU, student in the 1970s, QHI 1980s, refresher student again 1990s and refresher / QHI again later in the 1990s).
I've said it before and I'll say it again: There are those unwilling to convict good men because of a lack of evidence, and those who are.
Regards, ShyT.
Apology accepted. (I was also 240 OCU, student in the 1970s, QHI 1980s, refresher student again 1990s and refresher / QHI again later in the 1990s).
I've said it before and I'll say it again: There are those unwilling to convict good men because of a lack of evidence, and those who are.
Regards, ShyT.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 119K East of SARDOT
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ShyTorque/chinook240 
These are the facts and they are undisputed:
1. On 2 June 1994, at approximately 1800hrs, a Chinook helicopter with 29 people on board crashed on the Mull of Kintyre - there were no survivors.
2. No one knows - with absolute certainty - what caused the accident.
Thirteen plus years later - we are still waiting for the incumbent Secretary of State for Defence to review this case and make a judgement. A number of contributors to this forum have stated that we should sit on our hands and await the outcome of that review. I disagree.
I recall Malcom Rifkind’s submission:
I do not agree it should be a pardon – there is insufficient evidence to prove ‘gross negligence’ against the 2 pilots. If, after this review, the lesser accusation of negligence is levelled at one or both pilots, then this charge can only be coupled with the related corporate systemic failings that occurred prior to the incident. Not to do so, would be true injustice.
Why should we assume that Browne - even with additional facts - is any better qualified to make a judgement? Who will be his advisors during this review?
Does this mindset still exist? Are there still many who wish this whole issue would just go away?
As long as we all stick to the facts (scoped opinions are equally acceptable), I believe the flow of replies to this forum serves to remind us all that this 'issue' will not go away until justice is done.
AA
These are the facts and they are undisputed:
1. On 2 June 1994, at approximately 1800hrs, a Chinook helicopter with 29 people on board crashed on the Mull of Kintyre - there were no survivors.
2. No one knows - with absolute certainty - what caused the accident.
Thirteen plus years later - we are still waiting for the incumbent Secretary of State for Defence to review this case and make a judgement. A number of contributors to this forum have stated that we should sit on our hands and await the outcome of that review. I disagree.
I recall Malcom Rifkind’s submission:
Why the MoD must pardon the Chinook pilots - By Malcolm Rifkind, Secretary Of State for Defence 1992-1995.
These are highly complex and technical matters. A defence secretary has no more specialist knowledge of why an aircraft might have crashed than a health secretary would have on why a heart transplant had gone wrong. One must, to a considerable extent, trust the judgement of one's senior advisers.
But there is a culture of resentment at others seeking to second-guess RAF expertise. To acknowledge a mistake would hurt, and might reopen many policy questions. I am sure there are many who wish this whole issue would just go away.
As long as we all stick to the facts (scoped opinions are equally acceptable), I believe the flow of replies to this forum serves to remind us all that this 'issue' will not go away until justice is done.
AA
Last edited by Sand4Gold; 3rd May 2008 at 17:10. Reason: Typo errors etc
AA, as a previous proposer of sitting on hands let me quickly say that I am in complete agreement with the thrust of your post. My call was not to shut down all further discussion, perish the thought, but to appeal to the progenitors of a particularly unprofitable argument that I felt put no body's case in a good light. It seems to me that the MOD has engineered this stand off to further their continual policy of procrastination, and with the anticipated departure of Mr Browne I wouldn't hold my breath for an early outcome. But we surely owe it to the NoK and Brian not to further muddy these murky waters, for any and every excuse will be seized upon to avoid the admission that the MOD has been in error all these years and the cause of an outrageous injustice. There is surely nothing new to be said unless and until the MOD issues a statement. Once that has happened we may react with joy, anger, sadness or resolve as appropriate. One thing is for sure it will not end until the fat lady sings, and she has yet to receive her stage call. Let us all hope that will be soon.
Let Right Be Done!
Let Right Be Done!
Last edited by Chugalug2; 3rd May 2008 at 14:46.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paddyfactor – you wrote:
<<I think the scottish procurator fiscal might have come nearest when he said ' it may have been something beyond our imagination.'>>
I would have put it “… beyond our countenance.”
.
Most of us would be loathe to contemplate the possibility of there having been a thus far undisclosed activity that could have led to this disaster let alone the possibility that some element of one’s own security service may have willfully interfered with any such activity to expedite a political objective.
However, there is plenty of evidence, both direct and circumstantial, of the former while the latter possibility is indeed in the realm of “conspiracy theory” until such time as the former being fully disclosed and investigated.
.
The injustice against the pilots will stand until sufficient time has passed for there to be no chance of sufficient public interest in alternative explanations of the crash when the simplistic assertion of pilot error is (rightly) dropped.
It has always been so ironic that the Mull groups efforts have always been of merit in that the verdict was never nearly fair in the known circumstances and yet the verdict was of necessity the harshest as it implied “absolutely no doubt whatsoever” in the minds of so many politicians (whose background was legal work), journalists, and the broader public – at the time, the loss of the security team may have caused considerable public unrest had there been any possibility of foul play which could have had a negative effect on the peace process – the only way of preventing this was to emphatically blame the crash on pilot error.
.
This leaves a clear choice for the interested parties: either patiently wait for sufficient time to elapse (however long that may be) which has effectively been the strategy so far or look fully into what was going on in the area of the Mull; the former would only be clearing their names as a technicality; the latter may result in proper justice.
.
The analysis I have done to date, summarised briefly here, shows a deliberate turn towards a previously used landing area, with altimeters set for landing at its elevation, and the primary navigation instrument of the handling pilot set for the a/c’s track after that turn such that there must have been bearing data in that direction (see many previous posts) – I have suggested candidate equipment which could explain this and which, if in the wrong location, would have misled them as to their range to go in that direction.
The typical local weather would have had them in clear air at their altitude right up until the last few seconds as the mist was right on the landmass.
However, the mist on the slopes ahead would have obscured visual clues as to their proximity to any useful degree of accuracy to the ground and so they would have been very vulnerable to such a point navaid being out of the expected position – inspection of the site in clear weather shows that accurate judgment of range when approaching it is critical.
The tactical call sign used was appropriate for an exercise using the suggested equipment.
The ball is in your court.
<<I think the scottish procurator fiscal might have come nearest when he said ' it may have been something beyond our imagination.'>>
I would have put it “… beyond our countenance.”
.
Most of us would be loathe to contemplate the possibility of there having been a thus far undisclosed activity that could have led to this disaster let alone the possibility that some element of one’s own security service may have willfully interfered with any such activity to expedite a political objective.
However, there is plenty of evidence, both direct and circumstantial, of the former while the latter possibility is indeed in the realm of “conspiracy theory” until such time as the former being fully disclosed and investigated.
.
The injustice against the pilots will stand until sufficient time has passed for there to be no chance of sufficient public interest in alternative explanations of the crash when the simplistic assertion of pilot error is (rightly) dropped.
It has always been so ironic that the Mull groups efforts have always been of merit in that the verdict was never nearly fair in the known circumstances and yet the verdict was of necessity the harshest as it implied “absolutely no doubt whatsoever” in the minds of so many politicians (whose background was legal work), journalists, and the broader public – at the time, the loss of the security team may have caused considerable public unrest had there been any possibility of foul play which could have had a negative effect on the peace process – the only way of preventing this was to emphatically blame the crash on pilot error.
.
This leaves a clear choice for the interested parties: either patiently wait for sufficient time to elapse (however long that may be) which has effectively been the strategy so far or look fully into what was going on in the area of the Mull; the former would only be clearing their names as a technicality; the latter may result in proper justice.
.
The analysis I have done to date, summarised briefly here, shows a deliberate turn towards a previously used landing area, with altimeters set for landing at its elevation, and the primary navigation instrument of the handling pilot set for the a/c’s track after that turn such that there must have been bearing data in that direction (see many previous posts) – I have suggested candidate equipment which could explain this and which, if in the wrong location, would have misled them as to their range to go in that direction.
The typical local weather would have had them in clear air at their altitude right up until the last few seconds as the mist was right on the landmass.
However, the mist on the slopes ahead would have obscured visual clues as to their proximity to any useful degree of accuracy to the ground and so they would have been very vulnerable to such a point navaid being out of the expected position – inspection of the site in clear weather shows that accurate judgment of range when approaching it is critical.
The tactical call sign used was appropriate for an exercise using the suggested equipment.
The ball is in your court.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Demonstratethe new gear?
Some on board would have had an interest.
First Chinook that could run it, ideal demo conditions.
Easy to sell the idea?
I dunno - the use of such fits all that is known about the crash.
Some on board would have had an interest.
First Chinook that could run it, ideal demo conditions.
Easy to sell the idea?
I dunno - the use of such fits all that is known about the crash.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cazatou re your post #3217:
As there was no paperwork raised for their work and the reason it was requested made no sense, just what is it you think the techs were doing?
You should ask such techs what was involved in fitting said equipment in HC2 Chinooks in the following year – I believe the task was as straightforward to such techs as, say, fitting a GPS to your car would be to you – plug it into the cigarette lighter and stick it on your windscreen?
The system was just about self contained and designed to be an easy fit/ as a simple service mod to an a/c like an HC2 that had a suitable bus.
It was intrinsically accurate in range (no calibration required as part of fit) but the simple UHF antenna fit only gave an accuracy of +/- 4 deg in bearing – which was all that was required anyway in its roles.
I refer you to some of Tecumse’s recent posts regarding whether equipment is always fitted according to the book and how willing the authorities are to being open about it.
.
The “poor” weather you refer to has been described by myself in some detail in previous posts – I would have thought that a geographically fixed piece of such weather that could have been depended upon at that time of year on a familiar site not much off route would have been an ideal place to demo such equipment – think about its use.
.
Irrespective of whether such specific equipment was fitted or not, the analysis shows that deliberate turn to the right on a bearing reflected in the course selector setting of the handling pilots HSI which, along with the other factors mentioned in previous posts, indicates an activity which one would have thought deserved some attention.
.
PKPF68-77
You seem like the ideal person to take a camera with you on a boat just off the Mull lighthouse this summer on an evening when the usual prevailing wind is blowing – do you like fishing?
As there was no paperwork raised for their work and the reason it was requested made no sense, just what is it you think the techs were doing?
You should ask such techs what was involved in fitting said equipment in HC2 Chinooks in the following year – I believe the task was as straightforward to such techs as, say, fitting a GPS to your car would be to you – plug it into the cigarette lighter and stick it on your windscreen?
The system was just about self contained and designed to be an easy fit/ as a simple service mod to an a/c like an HC2 that had a suitable bus.
It was intrinsically accurate in range (no calibration required as part of fit) but the simple UHF antenna fit only gave an accuracy of +/- 4 deg in bearing – which was all that was required anyway in its roles.
I refer you to some of Tecumse’s recent posts regarding whether equipment is always fitted according to the book and how willing the authorities are to being open about it.
.
The “poor” weather you refer to has been described by myself in some detail in previous posts – I would have thought that a geographically fixed piece of such weather that could have been depended upon at that time of year on a familiar site not much off route would have been an ideal place to demo such equipment – think about its use.
.
Irrespective of whether such specific equipment was fitted or not, the analysis shows that deliberate turn to the right on a bearing reflected in the course selector setting of the handling pilots HSI which, along with the other factors mentioned in previous posts, indicates an activity which one would have thought deserved some attention.
.
PKPF68-77
You seem like the ideal person to take a camera with you on a boat just off the Mull lighthouse this summer on an evening when the usual prevailing wind is blowing – do you like fishing?
With NuLabor having been given such a comprehensive kicking in the recent local government and London mayoralty elections, time perhaps to recall the following written words from the next Prime Minister, dated 10 Jul 2006:
Dear (BEagle),
Thank you for your further e-mails about the Chinook accident.
You ask whether I would take early action to reinstate the reputations of the pilots if I form the next Government.
As I mentioned in my previous letter to you, I do believe that the reputations of the two pilots deserve to be reinstated, as the Lords Select Committee recommended, and in the absence of any overwhelming argument presented to me as Prime Minister that is what I would do.
Yours sincerely,
David Cameron
Thank you for your further e-mails about the Chinook accident.
You ask whether I would take early action to reinstate the reputations of the pilots if I form the next Government.
As I mentioned in my previous letter to you, I do believe that the reputations of the two pilots deserve to be reinstated, as the Lords Select Committee recommended, and in the absence of any overwhelming argument presented to me as Prime Minister that is what I would do.
Yours sincerely,
David Cameron
Cool Mod
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: 18nm N of LGW
Posts: 6,186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Y'know BEags, I think often of that letter. More so after the recent disastrous showing of GB and his no hopers. And, I might add, if GB is actually going to dump the SoD (I know, but I like it!). I cringe for Brian that his painstakingly prepared papers still sit on his in tray. We can only hope that he is applying some kind of action.
I know patience is supposed to be a virtue, but I'd rather like to kick the bum of the one who said it! So would Brian I expect.
Let us hope that David Cameron will be able to put into effect his comments sooner rather than later.
I know patience is supposed to be a virtue, but I'd rather like to kick the bum of the one who said it! So would Brian I expect.
Let us hope that David Cameron will be able to put into effect his comments sooner rather than later.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France 46
Age: 77
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WK
Removing a NAV or RADIO box to check the contacts are clean and re-seating the box was a common practice in my time in the Service. The mistake was that no formal paperwork was raised; the Tradesmen concerned reported what they had done in the immediate aftermath of the Crash.
Removing a NAV or RADIO box to check the contacts are clean and re-seating the box was a common practice in my time in the Service. The mistake was that no formal paperwork was raised; the Tradesmen concerned reported what they had done in the immediate aftermath of the Crash.
Last edited by cazatou; 6th May 2008 at 08:48.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: England
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the BBC today:
So ZD576 doesn't count then 
RAF Nimrod's last moments heard
...
The deaths of the servicemen marked the heaviest loss of life to be suffered by British forces in a single incident since the Falklands War.
...
...
The deaths of the servicemen marked the heaviest loss of life to be suffered by British forces in a single incident since the Falklands War.
...
Ex Grunt
Whilst it makes no difference whatsoever to the campaign, and please don't take this the wrong way, but in all fairness according to the Chinook Justice website 13 of those on board were British Forces, the others from the police and (I assume) associated security and intelligence services.
For once it would appear the Beeb were, technically, correct given the normal meaning of British Forces.
Whilst it makes no difference whatsoever to the campaign, and please don't take this the wrong way, but in all fairness according to the Chinook Justice website 13 of those on board were British Forces, the others from the police and (I assume) associated security and intelligence services.
For once it would appear the Beeb were, technically, correct given the normal meaning of British Forces.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cazatou
You wrote <<Removing a NAV or RADIO box to check the contacts are clean and re-seating the box was a common practice in my time in the Service. The mistake was that no formal paperwork was raised; the Tradesmen concerned reported what they had done in the immediate aftermath of the Crash.>>
No offence regarding your age, but surely with the more modern computer type connections, they should not be disturbed without clear reason as in doing so you could induce further connection problems – especially in what was electronically speaking a brand new a/c in the case of ZD576.
The reason for any work on the GPS given by Flt Lt Tapper did not seem to make sense and so surely some testing should have been done prior to and justifying breaking such connections – certainly immediately before a flight and as the nav system was important it would surely not be acceptable to casually break such connections without documenting what was done and what continuity tests were done afterwards.
Bearing in mind such work was done before a fatal flight in which navigation is an issue, I am surprised that it has not been the subject of detailed inquiry – however I could not find anything in regard to what exactly was done in their work before this flight in any of the inquiry transcripts – do you have any reference that I can follow up?
.
What you seem to accept that they were doing – casually disconnecting a nav element for a clean up – to me is more work than, say, attaching a self contained unit to the existing BUS, without interruption to other equipment, whose output to the CDU would have been evidently meaningful or otherwise to the pilot.
But as no one has come forward to give us a description of the service mod for fitting an ARS6 module to an HC2 Chinook it is difficult to be sure of this comparison.
I would have thought that such a description, today, would not be giving away any great secrets and would surely be of academic interest to all who have any interest in Chinooks.
Oh, and if it was a big deal to fit such that it could not have been fitted and removed easily then this would be a more convincing argument against the “conspiracy theory” than bland statements that it simply was not fitted.
And I say again, you do not have to be fixated with the use of this particular equipment – the deliberate right turn should still be explained anyway.
You wrote <<Removing a NAV or RADIO box to check the contacts are clean and re-seating the box was a common practice in my time in the Service. The mistake was that no formal paperwork was raised; the Tradesmen concerned reported what they had done in the immediate aftermath of the Crash.>>
No offence regarding your age, but surely with the more modern computer type connections, they should not be disturbed without clear reason as in doing so you could induce further connection problems – especially in what was electronically speaking a brand new a/c in the case of ZD576.
The reason for any work on the GPS given by Flt Lt Tapper did not seem to make sense and so surely some testing should have been done prior to and justifying breaking such connections – certainly immediately before a flight and as the nav system was important it would surely not be acceptable to casually break such connections without documenting what was done and what continuity tests were done afterwards.
Bearing in mind such work was done before a fatal flight in which navigation is an issue, I am surprised that it has not been the subject of detailed inquiry – however I could not find anything in regard to what exactly was done in their work before this flight in any of the inquiry transcripts – do you have any reference that I can follow up?
.
What you seem to accept that they were doing – casually disconnecting a nav element for a clean up – to me is more work than, say, attaching a self contained unit to the existing BUS, without interruption to other equipment, whose output to the CDU would have been evidently meaningful or otherwise to the pilot.
But as no one has come forward to give us a description of the service mod for fitting an ARS6 module to an HC2 Chinook it is difficult to be sure of this comparison.
I would have thought that such a description, today, would not be giving away any great secrets and would surely be of academic interest to all who have any interest in Chinooks.
Oh, and if it was a big deal to fit such that it could not have been fitted and removed easily then this would be a more convincing argument against the “conspiracy theory” than bland statements that it simply was not fitted.
And I say again, you do not have to be fixated with the use of this particular equipment – the deliberate right turn should still be explained anyway.
A really irritating PPRuNer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Just popping my head back up above the parapet
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Walter,
Jon Tapper asked an engineer to look at the RNS252 because on the previous sortie it was indicating that the GPS was seeing 5 satellites in view and tracking 7. The engineers ran all relevent function checks and no fault was found. At the time of the check, the GPS was seeing 8 satellites and tracking 7.
Flt Lt Tapper did not want to 'snag' the aircraft unless a fault was found or the item replaced.
This information was given to the BoI by one of the engineers responsible for checking the kit.
Also, how do you know the right turn (speculation) was deliberate?
PPRuNe Pop,
Hope you are keeping well. Patience....... Hmmm, I have to admit, I'm strugling a bit at the moment. Nothing significant on the horizon as yet, although I do know that Mr Browne was approached by a couple of MPs and asked when he was going to reach a decision. No definitive answer was forthcoming.
I think the only positive at the moment is that we haven't been given a 'No'. I'm sure we will have an answer as soon as the MoD realise the importance of the evidence presented to them.
Beags,
Thanks for the timely reminder. It may be prudent to keep that letter handy!
Caz,
Walter stated, "No offence regarding your age"... Hahaha. You're on your own with that one! Have you got a zimmer frame with a seat on it? (Joke, Walter, not poking fun at anyone).
Sorry there is nothing substantive to announce just yet, but I promise you all that the MoD are being continually reminded of our existence.
Regards, as always.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Jon Tapper asked an engineer to look at the RNS252 because on the previous sortie it was indicating that the GPS was seeing 5 satellites in view and tracking 7. The engineers ran all relevent function checks and no fault was found. At the time of the check, the GPS was seeing 8 satellites and tracking 7.
Flt Lt Tapper did not want to 'snag' the aircraft unless a fault was found or the item replaced.
This information was given to the BoI by one of the engineers responsible for checking the kit.
Also, how do you know the right turn (speculation) was deliberate?
PPRuNe Pop,
Hope you are keeping well. Patience....... Hmmm, I have to admit, I'm strugling a bit at the moment. Nothing significant on the horizon as yet, although I do know that Mr Browne was approached by a couple of MPs and asked when he was going to reach a decision. No definitive answer was forthcoming.
I think the only positive at the moment is that we haven't been given a 'No'. I'm sure we will have an answer as soon as the MoD realise the importance of the evidence presented to them.
Beags,
Thanks for the timely reminder. It may be prudent to keep that letter handy!
Caz,
Walter stated, "No offence regarding your age"... Hahaha. You're on your own with that one! Have you got a zimmer frame with a seat on it? (Joke, Walter, not poking fun at anyone).
Sorry there is nothing substantive to announce just yet, but I promise you all that the MoD are being continually reminded of our existence.
Regards, as always.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brian, details of fault appreciated.
Re the right turn - as discussed in detail in previous posts, plotting on charts gives waypoint change posn to crash site as about 035 mag - which was on the handling pilots HSI course selector - anyone in general aviation should recognise this as evidence that pilot was intentionally going on that course.
That it was on this setting by coincidence is hard to believe, especially as up to waypoint change 027 would have been the likely setting as that track was spot on for getting from Aldergrove to that position - this is basic nav with such instruments.
I believe that the course setting is a significant clue.
It also suggests that there was something in that direction to work off - there was no stored waypoint in the SuperTANS to account for it and no known fixed radio aid - hence suspicion of kit I have suggested.
Add to this the factors that it was slowing down (airspeed wise, Boeing analysis), there being a known LZ used by Chinooks at waypoint A, one RADALT alarm on min as per immediate landing, handling pilots baro alt set to give zero at alt of that LZ.
Something extra was going on.
Re the right turn - as discussed in detail in previous posts, plotting on charts gives waypoint change posn to crash site as about 035 mag - which was on the handling pilots HSI course selector - anyone in general aviation should recognise this as evidence that pilot was intentionally going on that course.
That it was on this setting by coincidence is hard to believe, especially as up to waypoint change 027 would have been the likely setting as that track was spot on for getting from Aldergrove to that position - this is basic nav with such instruments.
I believe that the course setting is a significant clue.
It also suggests that there was something in that direction to work off - there was no stored waypoint in the SuperTANS to account for it and no known fixed radio aid - hence suspicion of kit I have suggested.
Add to this the factors that it was slowing down (airspeed wise, Boeing analysis), there being a known LZ used by Chinooks at waypoint A, one RADALT alarm on min as per immediate landing, handling pilots baro alt set to give zero at alt of that LZ.
Something extra was going on.
A really irritating PPRuNer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Just popping my head back up above the parapet
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What about the possibility that there was an emergency of some sort, after the waypoint had been selected, and the aircraft had to turn right to head towards land, in order to land (slowing down in the process). Would that not offer an alternative reason for the suggested course of action?
Suggested purely for discussion purposes.
Kind regards,
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Suggested purely for discussion purposes.
Kind regards,
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,634
Received 513 Likes
on
273 Posts
No offence regarding your age, but surely with the more modern computer type connections, they should not be disturbed without clear reason as in doing so you could induce further connection problems – especially in what was electronically speaking a brand new a/c in the case of ZD576.
If the crew were trying to land shortly after landfall, for whatever reason there is no way on this earth that they would have flown at at such a high speed, even in perfect weather conditions.
Again, it really is time you began your own separate thread on your theories. Posting here does nothing one way or other for or against the campaign.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France 46
Age: 77
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brian,
The most I will confess to is a sit-on lawnmower - our first house out here had an acre of grass. We do have our own gymnasium now though (and only half an acre of grass).
The most I will confess to is a sit-on lawnmower - our first house out here had an acre of grass. We do have our own gymnasium now though (and only half an acre of grass).