SNCO Aircrew
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SNCO Aircrew
At present I’m an RAF technician ( DE, ex marine engineer) and have recently completed selection at Cranwell. This led to an offer of AE/ALM/AeOp however only applied ALM as I’ve been led to believe the job of AeOp could be done from the ground via comms link and I’ve done the throttles (BIG) bit and got bored with all that gauge watching.
What to do?
Sorry to clutter with wannabe not pilot but any help would be appreciated.
What to do?
Sorry to clutter with wannabe not pilot but any help would be appreciated.
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dude, don't listen to that crap about aeops. the job is cool, where else can you find a job that pays as much as it does, takes you around the world and gives you lots of time off.. yes ok yoiu get arsed about but hell if you don't get that now then you're lucky give it a go
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Dude! Don't listen to all that crap about AEOps. Loadie or Crewman is far cooler! Where else could you find a job so diverse and one which, despite what everyone else will tell you, is probably the only SNCO Aircrew which ISN'T in decline or being replaced by ickle black boxes?
We DO get to go all over too and the diversity of our job is unparalled in any other trade. C130/C17 or Tristar Loadie, Chinook Crewman, SAR Winchman, Mobile Air Ops Team, JATE...All these plus more are open to you if you go Loadie.
Finally, rise above any comments about ALMs being the bottom of the food chain. It's been thrashed out SO many times before on this site, but to sum up, as a loadie you need to have a greater or lesser clue about virtually everyone's job (and they know it too).
We DO get to go all over too and the diversity of our job is unparalled in any other trade. C130/C17 or Tristar Loadie, Chinook Crewman, SAR Winchman, Mobile Air Ops Team, JATE...All these plus more are open to you if you go Loadie.
Finally, rise above any comments about ALMs being the bottom of the food chain. It's been thrashed out SO many times before on this site, but to sum up, as a loadie you need to have a greater or lesser clue about virtually everyone's job (and they know it too).
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Dude, be careful of all the above (dare I say it, crap)!
The AEOp world is gonna be using some impressive kit in the near future. With projects like MRA4 and ASTOR hitting the streets within your career, the job will get even better!
As for AEOps working on the ground via comms links, the article in the Daily Sport, dated 29 Feb 2001 was a wind up!
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Dude,
as a Flight Eng you can discount my branch straight away. As good as it is, the future aint orange.
AEOP, banter aside is demanding and rewarding, not to mention a higher pay band than ALM.
That said, If I were to change and it may well become the case if I decide to stay in, I would be leaning towards ALM.
Have some good mates doing a good job in the loadie world, don't listen to everything you hear.
Cheers Frottles.
as a Flight Eng you can discount my branch straight away. As good as it is, the future aint orange.
AEOP, banter aside is demanding and rewarding, not to mention a higher pay band than ALM.
That said, If I were to change and it may well become the case if I decide to stay in, I would be leaning towards ALM.
Have some good mates doing a good job in the loadie world, don't listen to everything you hear.
Cheers Frottles.
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TD
I’m not a fan of comparing one job/trade against another as that can lead to serious mudslinging. What I can do is tell you what I do in the RAF and if it ‘floats your boat’ come on in, if not I’ll have saved you some heartache.
I’m an SAR Winchman (ALM) and to get here I did a lengthy ‘apprenticeship’ on Support Helicopters, learning the skills required to be a crewman. When I came across to SAR, completion of a flying tour was a prerequisite, however rumour control has it that there may be a direct entrant route in the offing. That said, as you get a feel for my role you will realise that anything you can bring to it at the start will help with what can be a frightening learning curve!
The crux of SAR is risk assessment. The assessment pecking order goes aircraft, winchman, survivor. This is fundamental to the reasons for using aircrew in my role and not a medic with some extra training. A (horrid term) paramedic I may be but it’s my aircrew training, and subsequent airmanship, that helps look after the safe operation of the aircraft. The easiest way to explain this is ‘capacity overlap’. Take, for example, finding a parking slot at Tescos. If you’re doing the driving it’s invariably one of the kids who spots the free slot because, as they’re not dodging trolleys with the car, they’ve got the spare capacity. It is pretty much like that in the helicopter. The aircraft captain will generally fly the aircraft to the various positions dictated by the co pilot, whose working like a one armed paper hangar; operating the nav suit, reading a map, looking after the radios and fuel and most importantly monitoring what the captains doing with the aeroplane. The radar operator has got a similar workload keeping us out of trouble (200’ asl IMC) and another smattering of radios. So why’s it done like that? Well, the bloke who ultimately keeps us all alive, and gets the job done to boot, is the captain, or more importantly the decisions made by the captain, and so this crew set up frees up as much of his capacity as possible. So what do I do? Sod all! Cool eh?…. Have you got it yet? The lack of direct task on the crewman means he is the man on board with the spare capacity. If you’ve skimmed down this post you may well of just pegged me as an arrogant sod, but if you read what I’ve said, you will see that it doesn’t take a brain the size of a planet to have LOTS of spare capacity in my role. So what’s my verbose point? Well a crewman is expected to help the captain, obvious, but to do this properly he needs a knowledge base very close to, ideally the same as, that of the captain.
Anyway, that’s my little bit of a ramble about the BASICs of being a helicopter crewman. Perhaps,TD, the most important thing for you to think of is the fact that you’ve been successful in your application to become RAF Aircrew. It doesn’t matter what trade you come to, as you will be joining a group of aviators who, in my experience almost to a man, are self-motivating professionals. The amount of effort you will expend to gain your brevet will be matched by the effort to wear it amongst your peers with pride.
I’m not a fan of comparing one job/trade against another as that can lead to serious mudslinging. What I can do is tell you what I do in the RAF and if it ‘floats your boat’ come on in, if not I’ll have saved you some heartache.
I’m an SAR Winchman (ALM) and to get here I did a lengthy ‘apprenticeship’ on Support Helicopters, learning the skills required to be a crewman. When I came across to SAR, completion of a flying tour was a prerequisite, however rumour control has it that there may be a direct entrant route in the offing. That said, as you get a feel for my role you will realise that anything you can bring to it at the start will help with what can be a frightening learning curve!
The crux of SAR is risk assessment. The assessment pecking order goes aircraft, winchman, survivor. This is fundamental to the reasons for using aircrew in my role and not a medic with some extra training. A (horrid term) paramedic I may be but it’s my aircrew training, and subsequent airmanship, that helps look after the safe operation of the aircraft. The easiest way to explain this is ‘capacity overlap’. Take, for example, finding a parking slot at Tescos. If you’re doing the driving it’s invariably one of the kids who spots the free slot because, as they’re not dodging trolleys with the car, they’ve got the spare capacity. It is pretty much like that in the helicopter. The aircraft captain will generally fly the aircraft to the various positions dictated by the co pilot, whose working like a one armed paper hangar; operating the nav suit, reading a map, looking after the radios and fuel and most importantly monitoring what the captains doing with the aeroplane. The radar operator has got a similar workload keeping us out of trouble (200’ asl IMC) and another smattering of radios. So why’s it done like that? Well, the bloke who ultimately keeps us all alive, and gets the job done to boot, is the captain, or more importantly the decisions made by the captain, and so this crew set up frees up as much of his capacity as possible. So what do I do? Sod all! Cool eh?…. Have you got it yet? The lack of direct task on the crewman means he is the man on board with the spare capacity. If you’ve skimmed down this post you may well of just pegged me as an arrogant sod, but if you read what I’ve said, you will see that it doesn’t take a brain the size of a planet to have LOTS of spare capacity in my role. So what’s my verbose point? Well a crewman is expected to help the captain, obvious, but to do this properly he needs a knowledge base very close to, ideally the same as, that of the captain.
Anyway, that’s my little bit of a ramble about the BASICs of being a helicopter crewman. Perhaps,TD, the most important thing for you to think of is the fact that you’ve been successful in your application to become RAF Aircrew. It doesn’t matter what trade you come to, as you will be joining a group of aviators who, in my experience almost to a man, are self-motivating professionals. The amount of effort you will expend to gain your brevet will be matched by the effort to wear it amongst your peers with pride.
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Like I said CS, we need a little insight in to everyone's job and I think you summed it up admirably.
I wouldn't argue for one second that aircrew trades shouldn't be compared, my point is that for sheer variety you can't beat ALM.
I have some very good friends who are AEOps, and I envy them all their trips to Florida, the Far East etc.
I just sit there and moan about moving 105s around Salisbury Plain in the rain, at night on NVG, the night before I'm due to fly through the London heli-lanes enroute to help out flood victims in the North West before heading off to Northern Ireland for a few days Ops there and then getting on a VC10 to go to Cyprus to task there, getting back to discover I'm on stand by to go to Mozambique, assuming we're not on HMS Ocean (!) by then, oh and in between could we just pop over to Brize to trial some new kit?
And what do all my AEOp mates say?
"Bluddy hell! That sounds so much more interesting that what WE do"
In short, the grass is always greener...
I wouldn't argue for one second that aircrew trades shouldn't be compared, my point is that for sheer variety you can't beat ALM.
I have some very good friends who are AEOps, and I envy them all their trips to Florida, the Far East etc.
I just sit there and moan about moving 105s around Salisbury Plain in the rain, at night on NVG, the night before I'm due to fly through the London heli-lanes enroute to help out flood victims in the North West before heading off to Northern Ireland for a few days Ops there and then getting on a VC10 to go to Cyprus to task there, getting back to discover I'm on stand by to go to Mozambique, assuming we're not on HMS Ocean (!) by then, oh and in between could we just pop over to Brize to trial some new kit?
And what do all my AEOp mates say?
"Bluddy hell! That sounds so much more interesting that what WE do"
In short, the grass is always greener...
Guest
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Don't Go for Air Eng, it's a dead end Job with no career prospects and a commissioned cadre who leave much to be desired.
Aeop is ok if u wanna spend most of your life at Kinloss, and most Aeops, to be fair, spend a large part of their lives trying to get away.
ALM is, I would suggest the way ahead. A career I would lean to my self if I weren't so fond of Banana's and gauge watching! Why not go flying with all 3 jobs and see which u fancy??
Good luck anyways..
Aeop is ok if u wanna spend most of your life at Kinloss, and most Aeops, to be fair, spend a large part of their lives trying to get away.
ALM is, I would suggest the way ahead. A career I would lean to my self if I weren't so fond of Banana's and gauge watching! Why not go flying with all 3 jobs and see which u fancy??
Good luck anyways..
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Dude
Go on a little trip courtesy of Her maj
Visit the school at cranners and then go and spend a day or so at each flying sqn that you may be interested in.
You will make your own decision based on what u see. I know that in times of man shortages time may be a factor but talk to your OC or OC p1 and explain your dilemma.
It is a career move that may affect you until your at least 55 years old, tread carefully warrior only fools and career officers rush in.
Charlie sends
Go on a little trip courtesy of Her maj
Visit the school at cranners and then go and spend a day or so at each flying sqn that you may be interested in.
You will make your own decision based on what u see. I know that in times of man shortages time may be a factor but talk to your OC or OC p1 and explain your dilemma.
It is a career move that may affect you until your at least 55 years old, tread carefully warrior only fools and career officers rush in.
Charlie sends
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Ref. AEOp v ALM
When I was in the RAF I had the chance to do both..qualified as an AEOp, did a tour on 42, then went across to SH, flying on both Wessex and Chinook (failing SARTU en-route!!).
Based on this experience, I can honestly say that I would point anyone down the road to ALM, rather than AEOp. The sheer variety of the tasks undertaken by an SH crewman, coupled with the degree of responsibility and involvement with the mission, make it an excellent job. To be perfectly honest, I found the AEOp thing a bit boring after a while (and of course, being constantly airsick the whole time didn't help!!)
I've been out for several years now, but would go back tomorrow if I could, as I miss it (and the good mates you make) a hell of a lot.
Good luck!!
When I was in the RAF I had the chance to do both..qualified as an AEOp, did a tour on 42, then went across to SH, flying on both Wessex and Chinook (failing SARTU en-route!!).
Based on this experience, I can honestly say that I would point anyone down the road to ALM, rather than AEOp. The sheer variety of the tasks undertaken by an SH crewman, coupled with the degree of responsibility and involvement with the mission, make it an excellent job. To be perfectly honest, I found the AEOp thing a bit boring after a while (and of course, being constantly airsick the whole time didn't help!!)
I've been out for several years now, but would go back tomorrow if I could, as I miss it (and the good mates you make) a hell of a lot.
Good luck!!
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Dude,
Why don't you find out for yourself? It's far too important a decision to take based on the comments on this forum (valid tho' they may be). These days you can visit units and talk to people at the coalface, so to speak - go to Odiham, Kinloss, Waddo, a SAR base (Lossie?), Lyn, Brize, etc and talk to the guys in the crewroom. I know it will take time and effort, but you will get a first hand view of the whole 'ish'. Just a thort...
Why don't you find out for yourself? It's far too important a decision to take based on the comments on this forum (valid tho' they may be). These days you can visit units and talk to people at the coalface, so to speak - go to Odiham, Kinloss, Waddo, a SAR base (Lossie?), Lyn, Brize, etc and talk to the guys in the crewroom. I know it will take time and effort, but you will get a first hand view of the whole 'ish'. Just a thort...
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Do not listen to anyone who says the AEOps job could be done from the ground, he knows not what he talks about. Get up to Kinloss and have a good look, I won't go into detail on what they do I would need a couple of pages and half of it cannot be talked about anyway. Suffice to say you could do a lot worse!!!
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Having done loadie (bit of a clue in username) for a few years now I still enjoy the job lots. Done a bit of both (fixed and rotary). As lots have said already, get time off on duty (so that you can legally fly with a sqn). Have a look at as many of the jobs that your current section will give you the time off for. All you got to do is phone each sqn ops for a point of contact, most of the sqns are already geared up for this type of visit. I am obviously biased toward my job but it's horses for courses. We've got retreads from all sorts in our line, PTIs, PJIs, Suppliers, Air stewards, RAFP, Techies, MT, Ex ARMY,Ex Navy and god save us even ex Air Movements, to name but a few. As far as AEOp......Take off fly for 10-12 hours see the sea land at the same place.......I don't think so. Good Luck.
[This message has been edited by Onlyaloadie (edited 03 March 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Onlyaloadie (edited 03 March 2001).]
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Thanks.
It’s good of you all to take some time to help me out.
FJJP You are absolutely right. I’ve spoken to/seen lots of diamond guys/girls doing their bit, but I’ve always sensed a reluctance to ‘blow the trumpet’. Hence the post.
Sorry for the potential to cause a blood bath, copious amounts of restraint seem to have been applied, ta.
CS & TR You are stealing the show, giving an insight into the nitty gritty of life in your trade, thanks.
It’s good of you all to take some time to help me out.
FJJP You are absolutely right. I’ve spoken to/seen lots of diamond guys/girls doing their bit, but I’ve always sensed a reluctance to ‘blow the trumpet’. Hence the post.
Sorry for the potential to cause a blood bath, copious amounts of restraint seem to have been applied, ta.
CS & TR You are stealing the show, giving an insight into the nitty gritty of life in your trade, thanks.