Non flying related job/flying pay

[day1-week1]

I've heard recently of people been stiffed out of their flying pay and going onto to some much redued rate when in a non flying/related job. However the JSP (754) states that in a 'non' post you go onto a 'reserve band' which is 100% of your FP for the first three years and then reduces yearly after that. Has anyone had/know anyone who has had experience of this? It seems to raise its head on voluntary type posts (spec duties etc).

[jim2673]

Fancy that not getting flying pay for NOT flying..........sympathy none, like it or resign and take the chance outside.

[BlindWingy]

Lots of sympathy here day1 especially with todays climate, sorry that I don't have an answer to your question, although may I suggest you buy something sweet for poor jim2673 to wash down the sour grapes?

BW

[Mister-T]

OK in a nutshell

Its simple really, flying related non flying posts include flying pay as otherwise nobody would accept them and non flying related post don't because flyers dont really care about them.

Think an E1 is with flying pay and all else are not so a gradual reduction is the case. All of that aside I think you are correct that the first 3 years are gratis.

[Sloppy Link]

I don't think too many have a problem with the three years bit, what is emerging now is the time spent on SP(R) does not not count towards your flying pay advancement, therefore if you entered your staff post as a second tourist with two years seniority in flying pay terms, you would mark time for the duration of your staff tour and then when back into a SP post would continue advancing towards the varying stages of flying pay. The rate you enter on remains for the first three years then reduces by 25% for the next three years, 25% after that for a further three years and then vanishes. Interestingly or obviously you may say, this does not apply to those on enhanced rates or those on PA/PES(A)/PAS although they can just as easily be posted to a desk (and are).

[Yeller_Gait]

Interestingly or obviously you may say, this does not apply to those on enhanced rates or those on PA/PES(A)/PAS although they can just as easily be posted to a desk (and are).

And therein lies the problem; all those that are on PAS should expect to remain in flying/instructor/standards type roles, and to be fair, most of them that are in those posts are more than happy to continue flying etc. The problem lies with all those that have PAS, or equivalent, that were not in flying posts, never mind the senior posts, but continue to take the money and clog up the promotion system for those that remain, without actually doing any flying duties.

It is not the fault of those individuals; it is the RAF that offered them PAS in the first place when they did not deserve to be offered, as they were not occupying a position to be worth PAS in the first place.

Anyway, good luck to the guys that were offered PAS, and for those of you who are still waiting for the offer, keep on believing.

Y_G

[Doctor Cruces]

I can't see the problem with not building up flying pay seniority if not in a flying post.
That's like me deciding not to put my pay in the bank for a few years but expecting the bank still to credit me with the money.

Aircrew aren't related to bankers, are they?

Doc C

[isaneng]

My (limited) understanding was that FP was payed for a non flying posting if it followed a flying duty. If someone subsequently requested to stay in a non flying position after their original ground tour finished, then FP was abated or removed, as the second ground tour was their own choice. Now all this was of course when we had lots of people and lots of postings choices - are we now saying that if posted into concurrent ground tours, against personal choice, FP will be lost after the first 3 years? And if so, are there actually many personnel forced into these circumstances?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

"Aircrew aren't related to bankers, are they?"

No Doc but I suspect you are, and if the current situation causes you such angst I suspect the proposed changes to aircrew Sqn Ldr's pay will have you absolutely apoplectic

[Wader2]

Doc, well before the current flying pay system, but still illustrative, my second tour was a ground tour. I managed by dint of having my flying suit in my office to get out and get flying. Indeed one Friday chap came in the office "What are you doing Monday?" - I was naive then - nothing.

"Ok, Western Ranger to Offutt." five days - not Monday" Quickly cleared with boss, panic plan and great trip.

Back to the point, why, in comparison to a mate who got a second flying tour should I have been penalised and lose 2-3 year flying pay increments had my job been assessed as non-flying?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Al,

Not sure of all the specifics but if if you are a pilot you may want to speak to your poster. Future PA cap of level 30 for Flt Lt pilots, Sqn Ldrs straight in at level 30 and a bunch of other stuff.

Didn't pay too close attention as I am just an enlisted filth tea boy but as a retention method for Sqn Ldr's it sounded like some folk are about to get a feckin huge bag of money, to which I say bloody good luck to them

[Sloppy Link]

Would that mean that a Lt Cdr/Maj/Sqn Ldr not already on level 30 would jump straight onto it?

Woo-hoo!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Sloppy,

That's sort of what I heard but the poster has the real gen....................and if it happens, and I seriously so hope it does I cannot wait to see how Doc and the other blunties take it, imagine just how far apart the pay scales between wheezy folk and the professionals will be........., true performance pay..........outstanding

[Wrathmonk]

As far as the light blue are concerned you've really got to have screwed up as an aviator if the desk officer posts you to back-to-back non flying related tours! If someone volunteers to do non-flying related jobs (back to back) then, IMHO, it's quite right that questions should be asked as to the need to pay you flying retention pay. When I was "volunteered" into a non-flying related post the desk officer made it very clear (and it may even have been on the draft note) that the 3-year clock was running even though work was in hand to rebrand it flying related (as it was a few months later).

One of the (few?) good things that PMA managed when this flying related question first came up was to annotate as many posts as they could as "flying related" regardless of the how tenuous a link - those that couldn't be directly related to flying duties were generally handed off the ops spt branch! If the clock is reset by conducting an OOA then Manning are always after volunteers!

I can (sort of) understand the AAC viewpoint - in PJHQ we had certain individuals who volunteered for a tour down the hole because it put them in a flying related post and therefore reset the clock ....

[Farfrompuken]

If you're posted into a Flying related ground tour by choice or not, does your flying pay stop advancing toward the next band until you resume flying then?

[Redcarpet]

Farfrom, I believe that is the case. Not worried are you ?