What's Jock Stirrup's Pay? - guess before you read
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To which I add: Refer to post 19 above. It has nothing to do with the size of the organisation, its staff numbers, estate and equipment. What profit does Sir Jock post at the end of each year? What dividend has he paid? Has he grown the company? Opened new premises? Has he increased market share? Engineered a take over of a competitor? How much has he added to the value of the shares?
That is what it is all about in the private sector. You cannot compare serving one's country with business and commerce. That is what you turn your back on (for a few years, anyway) when you take the Queen's shilling.
Sir Jock hit the nail on the head:
Few of us here would disagree with that. It is what I felt myself when I was still serving. Serving personnel of all ranks are at the whim of politicians and politicians are a reflection of the population at large. The population at large is stunningly ignorant of, and not in tune with, the standards and ethos of HM Forces. It is only political pressure which will change things for The Forces at all levels. For that to happen The Forces will need to convert and convince large numbers of the population at large.
As an aside, speaking as one who spent 18 years wearing RAF uniform, the people who make outstanding military leaders do not necessarily cut it in business and commerce. Indeed, the opposite is true more often that not.
Don't take it too seriously, folks. It's all a game and, who knows, the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury may yet have the last laugh! Where would Sir Terry Leahy and his ilk be then?
That is what it is all about in the private sector. You cannot compare serving one's country with business and commerce. That is what you turn your back on (for a few years, anyway) when you take the Queen's shilling.
Sir Jock hit the nail on the head:
It can never be what I believe is their intrinsic worth because frankly I think their intrinsic worth is far more than anyone can pay. You cannot buy with money the worth of the sort of people we are talking about.
As an aside, speaking as one who spent 18 years wearing RAF uniform, the people who make outstanding military leaders do not necessarily cut it in business and commerce. Indeed, the opposite is true more often that not.
Don't take it too seriously, folks. It's all a game and, who knows, the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury may yet have the last laugh! Where would Sir Terry Leahy and his ilk be then?
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No, not with Cathay. I've never heard of pilots being on anything approaching that sort of sum. £300k is about the tops anywhere in the world (Japan) to my (probably limited) knowledge.
Gentleman Aviator
What dividend has he paid?
"It is not the journalist ...." etc etc
You point about making profits etc is well made ....
...... however, I refer again to the BBC DG and particularly Sir Ian Blair .....
..... current uniformed strngth of the Met, about 35 000 I think .... but I'll research .....
Last edited by teeteringhead; 13th Jan 2008 at 11:30.
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Teeteringhead,
I wasn't being scathing at all, just making the point that comparison with business leaders is not appropriate because there is no market to place a value on Admirals/Field Marshalls/Air Marshalls.
The BBC DG is a dodgy one because, although the BBC is funded by the licence fee, it does have some commercial activity. You could argue that a portion of its profits should be returned to the licence-fee payers, who should be regarded as compulsory share-holders, in the form of an annual dividend! BTW I'd like to sell my "shares" in the BBC!
The Met's Blair, on the other hand, is an appropriate comparison. it would be interesting to see what other Chief Constables are paid.
Quote:
What dividend has he paid?
.... dare one suggest ... your ability to make scathing posts about officials......
What dividend has he paid?
.... dare one suggest ... your ability to make scathing posts about officials......
The BBC DG is a dodgy one because, although the BBC is funded by the licence fee, it does have some commercial activity. You could argue that a portion of its profits should be returned to the licence-fee payers, who should be regarded as compulsory share-holders, in the form of an annual dividend! BTW I'd like to sell my "shares" in the BBC!
The Met's Blair, on the other hand, is an appropriate comparison. it would be interesting to see what other Chief Constables are paid.
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I don't think it's sensible to compare CDS's salary with that of the CEO of Tesco, M&S, or other retailers. There will always be a candidate for CDS, because he comes from within the senior ranks of the Armed Forces and they have to be there. Appointing a CDS merely entails finding the right officer for the job.
Appointing a CEO is a good deal more complex. The company's board not only has to find a suitable candidate, it has to attract him. To do that, it has to enter a competitive market by effectively saying how much it values an individual's leadership and business acumen; the only visible way to do this is by salary.
Armed Forces senior salaries are not competitive salaries because we have no equivalent competitors; retailers have to offer competitive salaries, especially at the very high levels, in order to attract the people they want or need. Now, the question of whether CDS is being paid a fair salary is, I think, quite different. As the professional head of HM Armed Forces, charged with the ultimate military responsibility for the success or failure of every war - and every death that those wars involve - and for the management of a shamefully dwindling supply of money from the Treasury, I think he deserves a better salary. But whatever that salary is, it should be based on his wider responsibilities, not on a shaky comparison between CDS and the CEO of M&S, whose greatest responsibility goes little further than enriching his shareholders.
Appointing a CEO is a good deal more complex. The company's board not only has to find a suitable candidate, it has to attract him. To do that, it has to enter a competitive market by effectively saying how much it values an individual's leadership and business acumen; the only visible way to do this is by salary.
Armed Forces senior salaries are not competitive salaries because we have no equivalent competitors; retailers have to offer competitive salaries, especially at the very high levels, in order to attract the people they want or need. Now, the question of whether CDS is being paid a fair salary is, I think, quite different. As the professional head of HM Armed Forces, charged with the ultimate military responsibility for the success or failure of every war - and every death that those wars involve - and for the management of a shamefully dwindling supply of money from the Treasury, I think he deserves a better salary. But whatever that salary is, it should be based on his wider responsibilities, not on a shaky comparison between CDS and the CEO of M&S, whose greatest responsibility goes little further than enriching his shareholders.
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Wingswinger
apologies for the "scathing" line!
Chief Constables salaries vary an awful lot. Next after the Met comes PSNI (nee RUC) at £179k, following by the mega-forces (West Midlands and Greater Manc) at £168k which is also paid to thefour Assisstant Commissioners at the Met! West Yorkshire gets £156k, then we are into the £140s with the likes of Merseyside, Hampshire and Kent - and City of London who gets £148k - not bad for a square mile!. In the £130s are inter alia Essex, Sussex and South Wales, and you get more rural in the £120s with Norfolk, Suffolk and Gloucs. At the @rse end are small Jockistan forces, with the CCs of Central Scotland or Dumfies & Galloway struggling along with a mere £117k. These are figures wef Sep 07, full details are here.
Blair remains the biggest target, I accept the Met also have Branch and Diplomatic and Royal, but it still seems a lot........
apologies for the "scathing" line!
Chief Constables salaries vary an awful lot. Next after the Met comes PSNI (nee RUC) at £179k, following by the mega-forces (West Midlands and Greater Manc) at £168k which is also paid to thefour Assisstant Commissioners at the Met! West Yorkshire gets £156k, then we are into the £140s with the likes of Merseyside, Hampshire and Kent - and City of London who gets £148k - not bad for a square mile!. In the £130s are inter alia Essex, Sussex and South Wales, and you get more rural in the £120s with Norfolk, Suffolk and Gloucs. At the @rse end are small Jockistan forces, with the CCs of Central Scotland or Dumfies & Galloway struggling along with a mere £117k. These are figures wef Sep 07, full details are here.
Blair remains the biggest target, I accept the Met also have Branch and Diplomatic and Royal, but it still seems a lot........
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An interesting comparison would be the difference between Sir Jocks pay as a 4 star CAS as oposed to a 4 star CDS. 50k pa in the first year and rising with each year in post. Perhaps this could go some way to explaining his lack of protest at the manpower shafting we got during his CAS tour despite his briefings at CASWOs and the Stn Cdrs conference that an Air Force of 41k was too small. Considering that we are fighting on 2 fronts at the moment his visible impact as CDS is non existent. Perhaps he's hoping to join lord West as a goat when he retires. (that's a member of Gordon's Govt Of All the Talents as opposed to a, but then again...)
Just beating the air into submission!
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I would hazard a guess that these venerable leader's of our profession have no problems with the payment of their well earned salary via JPA and if per chance they did they have the means to sort it immediately.
Oh how the other half live.
Oh how the other half live.
