It doesn't get much better than this
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Widger
Yes, I do have a commissioning scroll. Yes, I have read it. QR's are there to be blindly obeyed, are they? Or is the "especial trust and confidence" HM reposes in us partly to do with our intelligent application of such regulations? I believe the scroll states that we are to "carefully and diligently" carry out our duties, not blindly and robotically.
I still fail to see why the wearing of uniform makes you any safer when inside a base which is "subject to regular mortar fire, in danger of attack 24/7, inside a country where there is effectively a low scale WAR going on". The uniform isn't fire retardant or bulletproof, and doesn't have it's own mortar shelter, so please tell me what the fuss is? So long as you have your ECBA and helmet then you have all the protection you possibly can carry with you. If the powers that be think the threat is higher then they can raise the alert state, double patrols or whatever it is they wish to do. Wearing uniform makes NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER when in base and relaxing.
It is you who should get a grip of yourself and stop worrying about what other people are wearing and doing. They have no effect on you, so what is the problem? It's the whole authoritarian (as opposed to disciplined) side of the military, the "that's the way it's always been done therefore that's the way we'll do it now" ethos which hold us back and prevents us from learning from the 1000 years of mistakes which you so rightly brought up. Perhaps a change of perspective from the blindly following rules and regulations is what you need.
Personally I couldn't care less what they are saying on ARRSE. So long as I provide an effective SH service to them I doubt they give a sh!t what my stance on uniform when off duty is. I am a part of that modern force, I do deploy (VERY regularly) and I do fight and win. What the hell has that got to do with my wearing civvies when I'm not flying?
I do know exactly what your problem is here, Widger. You love Bullsh!t. Bullsh!t baffles Brains and all that crap. Well it's true - Bullsh!t does baffle Brains, beause Brains can't work out what the hell it is Bullsh!t is trying to achieve, and Brains suspects that Bullsh!t doesn't know either. All Brains does know is that Bullsh!t's efforts are doing nothing to achieve the stated aim of defeating the enemy.
That authoritarian is coming out in you there Widger.
Yes, I do have a commissioning scroll. Yes, I have read it. QR's are there to be blindly obeyed, are they? Or is the "especial trust and confidence" HM reposes in us partly to do with our intelligent application of such regulations? I believe the scroll states that we are to "carefully and diligently" carry out our duties, not blindly and robotically.
I still fail to see why the wearing of uniform makes you any safer when inside a base which is "subject to regular mortar fire, in danger of attack 24/7, inside a country where there is effectively a low scale WAR going on". The uniform isn't fire retardant or bulletproof, and doesn't have it's own mortar shelter, so please tell me what the fuss is? So long as you have your ECBA and helmet then you have all the protection you possibly can carry with you. If the powers that be think the threat is higher then they can raise the alert state, double patrols or whatever it is they wish to do. Wearing uniform makes NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER when in base and relaxing.
It is you who should get a grip of yourself and stop worrying about what other people are wearing and doing. They have no effect on you, so what is the problem? It's the whole authoritarian (as opposed to disciplined) side of the military, the "that's the way it's always been done therefore that's the way we'll do it now" ethos which hold us back and prevents us from learning from the 1000 years of mistakes which you so rightly brought up. Perhaps a change of perspective from the blindly following rules and regulations is what you need.
Personally I couldn't care less what they are saying on ARRSE. So long as I provide an effective SH service to them I doubt they give a sh!t what my stance on uniform when off duty is. I am a part of that modern force, I do deploy (VERY regularly) and I do fight and win. What the hell has that got to do with my wearing civvies when I'm not flying?
I do know exactly what your problem is here, Widger. You love Bullsh!t. Bullsh!t baffles Brains and all that crap. Well it's true - Bullsh!t does baffle Brains, beause Brains can't work out what the hell it is Bullsh!t is trying to achieve, and Brains suspects that Bullsh!t doesn't know either. All Brains does know is that Bullsh!t's efforts are doing nothing to achieve the stated aim of defeating the enemy.
Just do as you are flamin told and obey the lawful order!
TAC Int Bloke
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Once again we are faced with that old cr@p about 'looking military' & Following regs to the letter = professional = important
The key to airpower is flexibility!
I've mentioned this several times but the more anally retentive amongst us still miss the point
During GW1 there was a series of photos in the RAF News from one of the sandy airfields of assorted plumbers, sooties and all going about the business of preparing jets to unleash hot-death on an unprepared enemy. They generally looked 'unconventional' in their dress, but they were working round the clock to get the job done in the finest traditions of the service
Shortly after a SWO from some remote station in the UK wrote in to complain about their 'piratical look' and how if they were on 'his' station they'd be up on charges bla bla importance of discipline bla bla. He obviously hadn’t noticed the difference between real ops and tacevals
A few weeks later an old boy who had been SENGO with the Desert Air Force back in 1943 tore into the SWO saying in his day he didn't give a toss what his boys looked like as long as they were comfortable, had adequate sun protection and were doing their job. He went on to say that what the guys in the field needed was support and leadership rather than pointless military bulls*it from those who had lost sight of why they were there in the first place
Anyone remember the morale crusher that was 'Normalisation' in the Falklands? Brought in for Army types and those seniors and officers that couldn't cope out of their comfort zone (and it was a small but vocal minority - my boss preferred to be greeted with a tea, a slice of toast and a 'morning boss' rather than a nice salute and a 'SIR')
The key to airpower is flexibility!
I've mentioned this several times but the more anally retentive amongst us still miss the point
During GW1 there was a series of photos in the RAF News from one of the sandy airfields of assorted plumbers, sooties and all going about the business of preparing jets to unleash hot-death on an unprepared enemy. They generally looked 'unconventional' in their dress, but they were working round the clock to get the job done in the finest traditions of the service
Shortly after a SWO from some remote station in the UK wrote in to complain about their 'piratical look' and how if they were on 'his' station they'd be up on charges bla bla importance of discipline bla bla. He obviously hadn’t noticed the difference between real ops and tacevals
A few weeks later an old boy who had been SENGO with the Desert Air Force back in 1943 tore into the SWO saying in his day he didn't give a toss what his boys looked like as long as they were comfortable, had adequate sun protection and were doing their job. He went on to say that what the guys in the field needed was support and leadership rather than pointless military bulls*it from those who had lost sight of why they were there in the first place
Anyone remember the morale crusher that was 'Normalisation' in the Falklands? Brought in for Army types and those seniors and officers that couldn't cope out of their comfort zone (and it was a small but vocal minority - my boss preferred to be greeted with a tea, a slice of toast and a 'morning boss' rather than a nice salute and a 'SIR')
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Anyone remember the morale crusher that was 'Normalisation' in the Falklands? Brought in for Army types and those seniors and officers that couldn't cope out of their comfort zone (and it was a small but vocal minority - my boss preferred to be greeted with a tea, a slice of toast and a 'morning boss' rather than a nice salute and a 'SIR')
Ah yes, that was the word. In Ascension a hats rule was introduced. Only senior officers all all 3 services ever wore them. The best of the rest wore KD slouch sun hats.
I heard after I left that they were planning to install a Regt Officer, DPMs and have ground defence exercises. Yeah, nice one.
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I'm surprised with the levels of Desert kitting that I experienced that anyone has actually got enough to be able to wear it all the time!
(Unless the BAS laundry is now offering a 1 hour service!)
(Unless the BAS laundry is now offering a 1 hour service!)
Last edited by SID East; 5th Jul 2007 at 13:36.
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I should like to add, rather lately I admit, that the reason we had to all go round in uniform all the time was because we were at a heightened NBC state. Obviously, you can't be in correct full IPE in 3 minutes if you're wearing a short-sleeved t-shirt and flip-flops at the time of the raid/alarm.
I assume that the current NBC threat level is sufficiently low that you don't need to carry your suit/rezzy round with you all day? (PS - I admit, I don't have current ops experience from this statement!)
My point/question is not one in support of 'Thou must wear it because you are in Military etc' which is causing so much debate, it is more, "Are the rules there for a reason?" e.g - to allow you to get to the correct NBC protection level quickly?
I assume that the current NBC threat level is sufficiently low that you don't need to carry your suit/rezzy round with you all day? (PS - I admit, I don't have current ops experience from this statement!)
My point/question is not one in support of 'Thou must wear it because you are in Military etc' which is causing so much debate, it is more, "Are the rules there for a reason?" e.g - to allow you to get to the correct NBC protection level quickly?
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Mr AEO
NBC threat at BAS negligible - except when the honey suckers come to empty the Portaloos. The room in your bag is much better used for civvies than for face welly and suits!
Certainly in my time there, it was a relief to get back after a chuffing long day, change out of my sweaty and stinking combats, shower, change into my t-shirt and shorts and pop to the bar for a wind-down drink. I always found that doing it this way rather than going to wind down in my smelly kit much more fulfillng and a much more satisfying way to relax. And surely that's the point? Some may be happy to reest all night, and that's fine. Some like to get changed, and that should be fine too? People should be able to choose. To my mind there is no difference in op effectiveness whether one is mortared in uniform or civvies.
We all have high levels of personal hygiene instilled in us during training and so surely it shows higher levels of personal discipline to make time to clean and freshen up before joining one's peers for some down time? So there you go, changing into civvies is actually more military than hanging around stinking in your combats.
And finally, if the Army get so jealous about the Crabs letting off a bit of steam, it must show better leadership to improve things for one's own troops, rather than crusade to force everyone to the base level. Those on duty, in uniform. Those off duty, wear what you like. Or should everyone be fully uniformed, fully tooled up and hot to trot "just in case" for 4/6 months solid?
NBC threat at BAS negligible - except when the honey suckers come to empty the Portaloos. The room in your bag is much better used for civvies than for face welly and suits!
Certainly in my time there, it was a relief to get back after a chuffing long day, change out of my sweaty and stinking combats, shower, change into my t-shirt and shorts and pop to the bar for a wind-down drink. I always found that doing it this way rather than going to wind down in my smelly kit much more fulfillng and a much more satisfying way to relax. And surely that's the point? Some may be happy to reest all night, and that's fine. Some like to get changed, and that should be fine too? People should be able to choose. To my mind there is no difference in op effectiveness whether one is mortared in uniform or civvies.
We all have high levels of personal hygiene instilled in us during training and so surely it shows higher levels of personal discipline to make time to clean and freshen up before joining one's peers for some down time? So there you go, changing into civvies is actually more military than hanging around stinking in your combats.
And finally, if the Army get so jealous about the Crabs letting off a bit of steam, it must show better leadership to improve things for one's own troops, rather than crusade to force everyone to the base level. Those on duty, in uniform. Those off duty, wear what you like. Or should everyone be fully uniformed, fully tooled up and hot to trot "just in case" for 4/6 months solid?
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Its not rocket science, we all have different opinions, if you wish to change into civvies then why not. What harm does it do? If you want to wear your uniform , crack on, but don't make the rest of us as well!!!
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My vote, which is a slight reversal of my previous opinion (ahem) is that you can wear what you bloody like. There would appear to be no NBC threat (PS said so) and those that like to wear mil uniform all day/night are in the minority according to some. So Don aircrew issue Raybans (TM) or Oakleys and strut
, don't forget your Animal/Quiksilver (TM) T-shirt/shorts and of course your Timberland (TM) slip-ons. After all, we wouldn't want you looking like a chav would we. Hopefully the station warrant will instill the correct 'label of the day'.
And if you are in the Eye Raq or Stan now in your strawberry mivvies... nice one, stay safe, come home soon.
with a nice tan of course
, don't forget your Animal/Quiksilver (TM) T-shirt/shorts and of course your Timberland (TM) slip-ons. After all, we wouldn't want you looking like a chav would we. Hopefully the station warrant will instill the correct 'label of the day'.And if you are in the Eye Raq or Stan now in your strawberry mivvies... nice one, stay safe, come home soon.
with a nice tan of course
