Aircrew rations

[Pontius Navigator]

You've tried the coffee?

Tangential to the free aircrew rations is the question of free food and accommodation when away from base. I don't know the present rules but at one point there was a plan to charge for food and accommodation for more than 24 hrs. This meant that the Nav School, flying to Germany or wherever on long airways flights on Friday afternoon and returning Monday would attract food and accommodation charges.

Now this might have been no great hardship for a one-off 'perceived' jolly with all the 'excitement' of a run ashore in foreign climes. For the staff pilots flying what was essentially a weekly bus trip into Europe it was quite different. They were giving up a weekend with their family on at least a monthly basis and then being expected to pay for the priviledge of working the weekend. I don't think they got proper time off in lieu.

They quiet calmly said if we pay then we don't night stop. This would have meant everyone having to open the airfield late on a Friday to recover the aircraft and also for the groundcrew to do all the pre-flights the following Monday - all extra work.

The charges were scrapped.

[toddbabe]

Oil can it is real! if you eat food why don't you pay for it? it's a very simple question.
Flying is your job, being for eg a dental hygenist is someone elses, why should you be entitled to free food when they aren't?
Swearing and getting lippy doesn't answer the question.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Now then blondebabe what you perceive as playing devils advocate is in fact you painting yourself as rather silly. You have asked for justification and you have had it in abundance but, as I pointed out to Winco logic and women are two things that rarely mix successfully

"Ken you raise some valid points however imagine for a second you are a see in crew at Kinloss and it's your job too see in a Rod at 1145, by the time the crew are ten mins late after a few rollers and a long taxi, followed by servicing, refuelling and finally paperwork and tools check the mess has long shut for lunch! try inputting that on a JPA claim!"

That statement young lady proves just how silly you are being as it has been pointed out on several occasions the lineys at the bases this subject applies to NEVER go short on the food front as there is always plenty left on board or stored in various coffee bars.............I wonder when the last time tea or coffee was actually purchased for said tea bars??

Now stop being a silly little thing and find your self some ironing or what ever it is you young gels find to do on a bank holiday and leave the grown up's to get on with this debate

[The Swinging Monkey]

Just back from a little jaunt to somewhere hot and pretty ****ty really, and amazed to find this still charging on, and toddbabe making a even bigger twit of herself than before.

Madam, no matter what anyone here says, you will argue FOR the loss of aircrew rations no matter what. As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, rations are there for a number of reasons, not least of all flight safety. Thats the end of it for me. You are clearly hell bent on arguing for the sake of it, and all you are achieving is making a complete fool of yourself. I noticed that neither you or Nimrod AGE (the crew chief!) said anything about refusing in flight meals whenever you have gone flying, why is that? Did you refuse them and hand them back to in-flight? No, of course you didn't, why should you?

As SFFP rightly points out, your crew room will have enough tea, coffee, milk, sugar, biscuits and frozen meals to last a lifetime, so stop whinging and grow up. Your hypocracy just pi$$es off aircrew and it isn't necessary.

I kind of hope that the Winco does drop a line to his AOC and asks that everyone should pay for their uniforms, especially you lot. Then you would really have something to gripe about.

TSM

[ZH875]

Originally Posted by The Swinging Monkey

I kind of hope that the Winco does drop a line to his AOC and asks that everyone should pay for their uniforms, especially you lot. Then you would really have something to gripe about.

TSM

And then we can all look forward to you losing your 'Uniform Allowance', but you wouldn't want to mention that you get Uniform allowance as well as free meals, would you?

Maybe if we had to pay for our uniforms, we might actually be able to make them improve the quality of the stuff that we are forcibly issued with.

Your obedient servant
grovel grovel
doffs hat
touches forelock etc

ZH

(just as long as aircrew inflight rations still have the Mars Bars in, makes raiding them worthwhile!)

[OilCan]

toddbabe

Your "easy peasy" solution would have me paying for the privilage of simply being at work - whether I ate the food or not.

Devils advocate my ar*e, more like beacounters advocate.

Lets make it a level playing field - I'll fly after breakfast, land before lunch, if there are any aeroplanes left I'll fly again in the afternoon and be home for tea. - now that's easy peasy.

[The Swinging Monkey]

ZH875

Do you think that the allowance you talk about even remotely covers the costs of uniforms etc? You need assessment if you do! I'm quite happy to tell you what my allowance is (if I knew it!) but I can tell you that the allowance wouldn't even buy me a new hat! let alone all the other trousers, shirts blah!
The people who stand to lose if we all had to pay for uniforms is everyone (except the officers though!)
Sounds like a good plan to me anyway.

Ken, are you suggesting that when a jet lands at ISK (or anywhere) the groundcrew trot out to it and work on it non-stop until it is 100% fixed, forgoing food, drink and anything else in the meantime? NO? I didn't think you were, but thats what it sounded like.

TSM

[parabellum]

I think a few valid points have been missed here.
The sole purpose of providing in-flight catering is to ensure that crews remain alert and blood sugar levels stay high, this includes the possibility of prolonged holding and an eventual diversion, if everything goes according to plan then it is highly probable that there will be food left over, equally it is possible that if major delays and diversions occur that on board food will be much appreciated in keeping alert levels high and saving the multi-million dollar airframe.

Sadly the Powers That Be have come to the conclusion that if you work on the ground then you are expected to be in attendance for scheduled meals or have an opportunity to self cater, penny pinching at it's worst as ground crews work shift work and not 9 to 5, just shows how little the
PTB know about how things really work, just shows how little your Lords and Masters have bothered to make them aware.

[mojocvh]

Just a short one.....

....to turn on the kenwood again.....It was previously mentioned that the A/crew (quite rightly) need the rations from an aviation medicine viewpoint.....however it should be pointed out that they "are" carrying out a task that they have trained and practiced for until it has become second nature.......now look at your "average" erk on the gate, live armed and green carded to death. He (or she) is not carrying out their daily duties and in fact are in an environment that is alien to then carrying out duties that they are not familiar with (what ever did happen to the RAFP??) and speaking (from very hard won experience) demotivated to an alarming extent (ever watched a cook cock up his unload/load drills at 4:30 AM fit the mag then working parts forward catch off to fire off the action??????? )

Now when all the ground trades were subject to these cuts just how much of a stir did "the other half" make????? Or was it a case of keep our collective heads down screw you jack were alright??

Awaiting the usual friendly banter in reply.

MoJo

[Pontius Navigator]

TSM, the uniform allowance was, the last year or so, £367 free of tax. Therefore if you pay tax at 22% it was worth the grand total of £80.74. Next year, if it is not increased it will fall to £73.40. If you are fortunate enough to pay tax at 40% then the allowance is £146.80.

A few years ago, when the allowance was just over £360 the total value over 5 years was about £400. The cost of working dress, is shoes, socks, shirt, trousers and sweater, over 5 years and based on the life of each was exactly the same £400.

The allowance did not cover No 1s, No 5, dress shirts, SD Hats, Forage Caps, Flasher Mac, Bomber Jacket, Leather jacket etc. If you did buy any of these items then you could claim the income tax back - ie for a £100 cap you could get £22 back.

So what happens? Officers wear their uniforms far longer than airmen. Even the CAS, Sir Michael Graden had holes in his woolly pully when he visited Waddo a few years ago.

[ZH875]

Originally Posted by The Swinging Monkey

I can tell you that the allowance wouldn't even buy me a new hat! let alone all the other blah!

So here we have the REAL reason that aircrew need an operation to remove them from their growbags, they are FREE, so they must be worn as much as possible, even in jobs where flying is as much a possibility as my rocking horse having a .

Keep taking the happy pills (they are free as well)

[Len Ganley]

Toddbabe

.....by the time the crew are ten mins late after a few rollers and a long taxi, followed by servicing, refuelling and finally paperwork and tools check the mess has long shut for lunch

Have you tried 'phoning the mess and booking a late lunch or some butties???????

[gar170]

should be no excuses anymore with a little help.

http://www.channel4.com/life/microsi...word3_raf.html

[ZH875]

Originally Posted by gar170

should be no excuses anymore with a little help.

http://www.channel4.com/life/microsi...word3_raf.html

"After a supersonic spin in a Harrier Jump Jet"......

[Froobs]

More crap reporting. Didn't realise we had supersonic Harriers.

[cornish-stormrider]

Don't you know anything. Thats the new harrier with the transformers mod which is released in time for the movie.......July this year for those not in the know. Robots in disguise etc. I cannot believe that there is still this level of moaning about in flight rations. As an ex liney we were always hugely grateful for the snax as they were of much better fayre than the mess.

[Pontius Navigator]

ZH875

So here we have the REAL reason that aircrew need an operation to remove them from their growbags, they are FREE, so they must be worn as much as possible, even in jobs where flying is as much a possibility as my rocking horse having a .

Clearly you haven't been near the HQs recently. There is more CS95 in sight than paid for uniforms and not a bit of mud in sight

[Krystal n chips]

Been reading this topic with bemused interest. I can't, for the life of me, see why people think aircrew being fed for free is a "perk"......it's a very simple and salient fact crews have to be fed for all the Flight Safety issues mentioned....nothing more or less. This detail of course has been lost on the beancounter fraternity which is where the real ire should be directed.

Never part of the ME world so I can't comment on the "custom and practice" of the removal of food ( other than one dark and sh$%y night at Valley when a Shack lobbed in...the M/Eng appears with a simple proposition--"Here's the food, here's the oil, there's the engines".)...seemed like a fair deal to us at the time. However, in the civi world, it's pretty much the same on a Line station..there are the written rules and the "unwritten rules".....just like the RAF in fact...about removal of food and other items like tea and coffee....after the flight. I never went hungry and neither does any Line engineer if you play the game properly. Simple as that.

On the subject of Vulcan crew meals however, as I understand it there was a Hot Loc type of tub for in flight hot meals ? I mention this because also at Valley, a Vulcan dropped in on a Mickey Finn and said crew had to be fed...unfortunately, for them, the duty cook ( euphimism here ) was the original SAC Bloggs ....hence on nights we came to the "arrangement" of cooking our own meals when he was on duty....thus ensuring we got fed !.....however, your man excelled himself on this occassion by providing....jam sarnies in lieu of anything more substantial....which must have been an interesting experience for the crew when they came to eat !

[Yeller_Gait]

Guarding?

Mojo...

Now when all the ground trades were subject to these cuts just how much of a stir did "the other half" make????? Or was it a case of keep our collective heads down screw you jack were alright??

I think that you will find that at the ME flying stations, (certainly the ones I have been at) the NCO aircrew do at least their fair share of guarding duties, and probably complain as much as the rest with regard to lack of free meals for guards.

Now perhaps we might look at why half of the blunties (admin) manage to avoid doing guard/commander shifts such that engineers and squadron NCA end up doing more than the average?

Y_G

[toddbabe]

It's not difficult reading is it? read the thread in it's entirety before jumping in with comments about Aircrew needing fed for flight safety reasons and blood sugar levels blah blah, I never said don't feed em just asked why the very important sugar rich food they devour is free!
Now just because the bean counters are looking at your ivory tower don't get all arsey and start whingeing about groundcrew having t bars full of stuff and ring the mess for late lunches etc.
First of all in the JR's mess if you ask for a late lunch you will get zero choice, they will plate up a pile of chips, beans and a pie and zap it in the micro when you pick it up, apart from that even when you do get your late lunch you still have to pay for it!
Secondly you aren't seriously asking the people who make your aircraft airworthy to sustain themselves on whatever you may have left over ( 10 hour old sarnies, the odd chicken korma and a spare tray of doughnuts ) are you ?
There is a lot of avtur fuelled testosterone floating about this thread and some people are getting just a little miffed at my comments, tough!
The question is still there to be answered and it isn't about blood sugar, why do Aircrew get free food when nobody else does?