Dafur
Aisle seat, please.
Join Date: May 2003
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According to the press in West Africa the French have a number of aircraft in both Chad and Central African Republic. In both cases they are being used against rebels who are staging out of South West Sudan.
If this is true, then the French would seem to be pretty well placed to police any no-fly zone in Darfur. M. Chirac has shown no sign of reluctance to get involved in African conflicts.
If this is true, then the French would seem to be pretty well placed to police any no-fly zone in Darfur. M. Chirac has shown no sign of reluctance to get involved in African conflicts.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Manchester
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Afriend of mine visited Khartoum last year and observed numerous Hind type helicopter movements and several AN12s(bombers ?) operating from the military area with no markings on, ironically every other movement was a UN relief aircraft !
Finally a job for the E3-D fleet after their continuous flying for hours and achieving nothing in a non-operational exercise role environment? Can't wait to hear and see how the pimary Lincolnshire ISTAR Sqns will gloat at thier self-importance and mission critical inputs to locating and vectoring the Typhoon fleet onto some unsuspecting goat-hearder... assuming they are squawking of course.
Sell the lot; buy some more AT for those of us (the majority) that need it to do the operational stuff.
Sell the lot; buy some more AT for those of us (the majority) that need it to do the operational stuff.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Englandshire, mostly.
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That's a little harsh AVTUR,
The E3D fleet act as good COMAO managers & they are excellent for CAS stacking etc.
Although they are an expensive and under used asset, that's not their fault & at the end of the day, I quite like the idea of having ACI talking to me in the background, might come in handy when, sorry if, Bush & Blair decide to push us into Iran with all those F4s etc floating around.
I do agree with your point about the Fighter Controllers loving themselves though, you'd think they fought Allied Force single handed when talking to some of them! Lets not associate those gimps with the WSOps onboard, I don't think they'd take it very well!
The E3D fleet act as good COMAO managers & they are excellent for CAS stacking etc.
Although they are an expensive and under used asset, that's not their fault & at the end of the day, I quite like the idea of having ACI talking to me in the background, might come in handy when, sorry if, Bush & Blair decide to push us into Iran with all those F4s etc floating around.
I do agree with your point about the Fighter Controllers loving themselves though, you'd think they fought Allied Force single handed when talking to some of them! Lets not associate those gimps with the WSOps onboard, I don't think they'd take it very well!
But, what if the Sudanese Government decide to hit back at the West?
Attacking shipping in the Red Sea with aircraft (MiGs etc with sophisticated anti ship weaponry as well as iron bombs, or bombs pushed out the back of a transport) would cause real problems for the West. Sinking an oil tanker here or a container ship there would cause serious political and economic problems for the West, not to mention the threat to NATO/coalition naval forces operating in (or transiting through) the Red Sea? If Sudan is not above butchering their own indigenous black population, then it is not above blackmailing Western governments this way.
In late 2004 I mentioned this type of situation on the Sea Jet thread. Try using the PPRuNe search function to look for "Red Sea Roulette".
Attacking shipping in the Red Sea with aircraft (MiGs etc with sophisticated anti ship weaponry as well as iron bombs, or bombs pushed out the back of a transport) would cause real problems for the West. Sinking an oil tanker here or a container ship there would cause serious political and economic problems for the West, not to mention the threat to NATO/coalition naval forces operating in (or transiting through) the Red Sea? If Sudan is not above butchering their own indigenous black population, then it is not above blackmailing Western governments this way.
In late 2004 I mentioned this type of situation on the Sea Jet thread. Try using the PPRuNe search function to look for "Red Sea Roulette".
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Too far North - hardly a RAF base that isn't these days...
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tyist of hellholes imaginable, in all likelihood.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
But, what if the Sudanese Government decide to hit back at the West?
Attacking shipping in the Red Sea with aircraft (MiGs etc with sophisticated anti ship weaponry as well as iron bombs, or bombs pushed out the back of a transport) would cause real problems for the West.
Attacking shipping in the Red Sea with aircraft (MiGs etc with sophisticated anti ship weaponry as well as iron bombs, or bombs pushed out the back of a transport) would cause real problems for the West.
ooops, sorry, I'll get me 'at
Tonbstone
Harsh; Yes, but with good reason:
"The E3D fleet act as good COMAO managers & they are excellent for CAS stacking etc"
Sounds like good exercise speak to me as not seen it operationally... Apart from defending us from a Viking II attack they are a nil requirement in the current and future ops given that any mushroom role is usually filled by an especially useless NATO or US contingent.
"talking to me in the background" ...this hardly sounds like an operationally efficient asset, but does remind me of their role in in Allied Force.... The one when I was almost taken out by an F16 and JSTARS within 30 mins due to "screen clutter".
I do agree with your ground trade supporting aircrew (ie fighter controller) v WSOp comment though.
Sorry about my negativity, but I struggle to see their relevance given the current op tempo and their non-op chest expanding. Seasons greetings (even to you shrooms).
"The E3D fleet act as good COMAO managers & they are excellent for CAS stacking etc"
Sounds like good exercise speak to me as not seen it operationally... Apart from defending us from a Viking II attack they are a nil requirement in the current and future ops given that any mushroom role is usually filled by an especially useless NATO or US contingent.
"talking to me in the background" ...this hardly sounds like an operationally efficient asset, but does remind me of their role in in Allied Force.... The one when I was almost taken out by an F16 and JSTARS within 30 mins due to "screen clutter".
I do agree with your ground trade supporting aircrew (ie fighter controller) v WSOp comment though.
Sorry about my negativity, but I struggle to see their relevance given the current op tempo and their non-op chest expanding. Seasons greetings (even to you shrooms).
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Yes, I Bit!!
Avtur..
Having over 200 operational missions under my belt (not as a FC though) I wonder how many near misses you would have had without any AWACS cover... Procedural separation is fine until every USN/USAF who arrives in theatre flies without reading spins (happened every time a new USN task group entered the adriatic - F14s off the deck straight up to F200 without looking). The problem is that most JJs are spoiled during small trg exercises - on Ops one cannot give full attention to each and every aircraft on console (usually anything up to 200 on ops not including the passing airliners - I remember a 100 page plus ATO) we don't have enough consoles on board. Especially true during Telic, although we were fairly safe being so far ahead of the F3 back-stop cap. Unfortunately, some-one in NATO has said that E-3s cannot deploy without a DAS, (duty of care and all that) and so until that nice man in the treasury pays for one.... you will get the other sort.
I will admit that ISTAR needs another operation. Having been on constant ops without a break from a few of months after entrering service (1992) to the end of Telic (2003), we need to be back leading where we belong. I miss flying 900 hours a year.
Having over 200 operational missions under my belt (not as a FC though) I wonder how many near misses you would have had without any AWACS cover... Procedural separation is fine until every USN/USAF who arrives in theatre flies without reading spins (happened every time a new USN task group entered the adriatic - F14s off the deck straight up to F200 without looking). The problem is that most JJs are spoiled during small trg exercises - on Ops one cannot give full attention to each and every aircraft on console (usually anything up to 200 on ops not including the passing airliners - I remember a 100 page plus ATO) we don't have enough consoles on board. Especially true during Telic, although we were fairly safe being so far ahead of the F3 back-stop cap. Unfortunately, some-one in NATO has said that E-3s cannot deploy without a DAS, (duty of care and all that) and so until that nice man in the treasury pays for one.... you will get the other sort.
I will admit that ISTAR needs another operation. Having been on constant ops without a break from a few of months after entrering service (1992) to the end of Telic (2003), we need to be back leading where we belong. I miss flying 900 hours a year.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: N Yorkshire, UK
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Excuse the Intrusion, but note my 'nome de plume' PZU = Port Sudan
Was based at Oil Terminal by Port Sudan 2001-2004 just 5K from PZU airfield the new one built by Osama bin Laden c 1998/99 - 25K south of Port Sudan
Sudan Air Force presence was occaisional and limited to 2/3 Shenyang F6's or F7's parked on apron with a tractor and an APU plus lying on the grade what appeared to be half a dozen 'home made' bombs of approx 500kg
The permanent presence at PZU was a battery of 6/8 twin barrelled 'bofors looking' presumably Chinese 37mm AA cannon in a parade gound battery formation plus at the NE corner of the perimeter a long defunct/scorched wreck of a Mig 19/21 type
Just to the North outside the perimeter there was what a Dutch ex SF type described as the remains of a SA2 battery, further North adjacent the oil refinery & power station was another AA battery in similar condition to that at the airfield
Further North again right on the edge of Port Sudan town lies the old PZU airfield now purely military, throughout my time there this was occupied by a DC7C abandoned in '70's/80's by someone involved in Aid flights plus between 3 & 5 piston Trainers Nanchang C6? - during my time only saw them airborne about 10 times and max 2 at once
But since 2003 Sudan has been exporting in excess of 250000 bbls/day and that buys a lot of kit
PZU - Out of Africa
Was based at Oil Terminal by Port Sudan 2001-2004 just 5K from PZU airfield the new one built by Osama bin Laden c 1998/99 - 25K south of Port Sudan
Sudan Air Force presence was occaisional and limited to 2/3 Shenyang F6's or F7's parked on apron with a tractor and an APU plus lying on the grade what appeared to be half a dozen 'home made' bombs of approx 500kg
The permanent presence at PZU was a battery of 6/8 twin barrelled 'bofors looking' presumably Chinese 37mm AA cannon in a parade gound battery formation plus at the NE corner of the perimeter a long defunct/scorched wreck of a Mig 19/21 type
Just to the North outside the perimeter there was what a Dutch ex SF type described as the remains of a SA2 battery, further North adjacent the oil refinery & power station was another AA battery in similar condition to that at the airfield
Further North again right on the edge of Port Sudan town lies the old PZU airfield now purely military, throughout my time there this was occupied by a DC7C abandoned in '70's/80's by someone involved in Aid flights plus between 3 & 5 piston Trainers Nanchang C6? - during my time only saw them airborne about 10 times and max 2 at once
But since 2003 Sudan has been exporting in excess of 250000 bbls/day and that buys a lot of kit
PZU - Out of Africa
Join Date: Dec 2006
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UN no fly zone? thought they never worked?
How bout NATO no fly zone, that should do it!
http://www.ippr.org.uk/pressreleases/?id=2476
How bout NATO no fly zone, that should do it!
http://www.ippr.org.uk/pressreleases/?id=2476
