Nimrod crash in Afghanistan Tech/Info/Discussion (NOT condolences)
Give the Media a Little Slack.
If journalists know nothing about RAF aircraft or operations then whose fault is that? Furthermore, in the absence of hard information, journalists will speculate. How many newspapers would you sell if your newspaper was simply blank because you couldn't confirm something?
Perhaps if the RAF were able to provide timely, pertinent and understandable information on its activities to journalists as well as a limited amount of education, the press would produce a more informed product.
There is another reason the MoD may have been somewhat slow and reticent about this crash. Saturday was the first day of "Operation Medusa" (reported in the press here today) which is going on as we speak.
I can well imagine that the location, cause and other details were, and still are, sensitive operational information.
To put it another way, what happens if some clown in the midlands sees and hears a whole lot on TV (or Pprune for that matter) and then picks up a satellite phone and calls his mate in Afghanistan?
Perhaps if the RAF were able to provide timely, pertinent and understandable information on its activities to journalists as well as a limited amount of education, the press would produce a more informed product.
There is another reason the MoD may have been somewhat slow and reticent about this crash. Saturday was the first day of "Operation Medusa" (reported in the press here today) which is going on as we speak.
I can well imagine that the location, cause and other details were, and still are, sensitive operational information.
To put it another way, what happens if some clown in the midlands sees and hears a whole lot on TV (or Pprune for that matter) and then picks up a satellite phone and calls his mate in Afghanistan?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
RAF Tech 101 please see PM, which I wrote before seeing Sunfish's comment.
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If journalists know nothing about RAF aircraft or operations then whose fault is that? Furthermore, in the absence of hard information, journalists will speculate. How many newspapers would you sell if your newspaper was simply blank because you couldn't confirm something?
Perhaps if the RAF were able to provide timely, pertinent and understandable information on its activities to journalists as well as a limited amount of education, the press would produce a more informed product.
Perhaps if the RAF were able to provide timely, pertinent and understandable information on its activities to journalists as well as a limited amount of education, the press would produce a more informed product.
Let the Board of Inquiry do its work and once they are as certain as they can be of what caused this accident, they will report in full. With so much media interest, the public will get to see all but the parts that are ultimately sensitive due to ongoing ops.
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How many crashes/incidents
I can remember 3 other Nimrod crashes and possibly 3 incidents:
Into the woods at Kinloss - 2 killed
Canada - 5 killed?
R1 into Moray Firth - no fatalities
Undercarriage collapse at St Mawgan - no fatalities
Bombay fire - no fatalities
I also seem to have a vague memory of being told that there was another undercarriage collape in Malta in a 203 Sqn Nimrod, must have been early 70s anybody else remember?
Condolences to all the families involved, OC 120 looked absolutely devastated at the News Conference.
Daf
Into the woods at Kinloss - 2 killed
Canada - 5 killed?
R1 into Moray Firth - no fatalities
Undercarriage collapse at St Mawgan - no fatalities
Bombay fire - no fatalities
I also seem to have a vague memory of being told that there was another undercarriage collape in Malta in a 203 Sqn Nimrod, must have been early 70s anybody else remember?
Condolences to all the families involved, OC 120 looked absolutely devastated at the News Conference.
Daf
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Made up, until we hear otherwise. (I work 1st line on Nimrods) There may well be a day or two of "quiet" after the weekends events though.
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It seems a bit harsh to criticise the media for speculation in instances like this when internet forums are awash with people's views and theories - some informed, many not.
These forums are publically accessible just like our television, radio and newspapers and there's every chance an uninformed relative could be browsing the internet as there is them watching TV or listening to the radio.
These forums are publically accessible just like our television, radio and newspapers and there's every chance an uninformed relative could be browsing the internet as there is them watching TV or listening to the radio.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Maybe there will be some flying tomorrow. Maybe technical inspections were carried out over the weekend. Who knows? Me? I would almost bet on flying tomorrow.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
It seems a bit harsh to criticise the media for speculation in instances like this when internet forums are awash with people's views and theories - some informed, many not.
These forums are publically accessible just like our television, radio and newspapers and there's every chance an uninformed relative could be browsing the internet as there is them watching TV or listening to the radio.
These forums are publically accessible just like our television, radio and newspapers and there's every chance an uninformed relative could be browsing the internet as there is them watching TV or listening to the radio.
In the AG the thrust was simply that the MOD should have asked for a complete embargo on type/numbers. Maybe the release of numbers and services was a mistake by the MOD. Maybe that too could be attributed to the news breaking on Saturday?
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After the first crash in the woods when the two pilots were killed, the following day all the crews of all the Sqns were "encouraged" to get airborne. Albeit that that crash was the result of multiple bird ingestions in all engines seconds after rotate, there was no fear of a fleetwide problem and the powers that be wanted everyone to get "back on the bike" as soon as poss. I would like to think that the flying programme will continue as normal.
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Nigegilb, Sunfish, fly_high, green_granite and others – thank you for showing understanding and respect, offering a bit of reasoned thought about the media, and not resorting to trashy generalisations and squalid insults.
When it comes to uninformed opinion, shooting mouths off before checking facts, professional disrespect, and outright bullsh!t, some of the people here have outperformed even the worst tabloids, in my view.
I’m not planning on commenting on the Nimrod accident, under this or my usual Prune name. I know nothing about it.
But I will say that, as someone who’s had to work in conflict zones, that in my experience the military has a lot of patience with journalists, and I’ve been lucky to build a good relationship where each side respects the other’s abilities and professionalism. It’s ex-military, ex-RAF guys who’ve helped give us a solid grounding in survival tactics before we’ve been sent anywhere. You fellas know who we are – thanks. I already owe you a couple of beers.
They, and many in the service, know that we’re just trying to do a good job, and are vulnerable to becoming casualties of war in the process (nearly 80 in Iraq alone so far) and give us whatever support they can. I’m one of those who hopes we’re doing our best to return that respect with reporting which is as accurate as it can be, while trying to balance every other consideration alongside.
Those of you who think journalism is about reviewing Corrie in the Sun, I'd invite you to visit http://www.cpj.org/ and learn a little about why it's a profession I'm proud to follow.
One more thing: we have families too. Whenever I leave, the worry in my wife’s eyes is genuine. If I’m as unlucky as one of the dozens of guys – servicemen, journalists, civilians and others – who haven’t made it back, I wonder if any of the posters here will brave enough to ring her up after the funeral and telling her that her husband was just ‘scum’?
When it comes to uninformed opinion, shooting mouths off before checking facts, professional disrespect, and outright bullsh!t, some of the people here have outperformed even the worst tabloids, in my view.
I’m not planning on commenting on the Nimrod accident, under this or my usual Prune name. I know nothing about it.
But I will say that, as someone who’s had to work in conflict zones, that in my experience the military has a lot of patience with journalists, and I’ve been lucky to build a good relationship where each side respects the other’s abilities and professionalism. It’s ex-military, ex-RAF guys who’ve helped give us a solid grounding in survival tactics before we’ve been sent anywhere. You fellas know who we are – thanks. I already owe you a couple of beers.
They, and many in the service, know that we’re just trying to do a good job, and are vulnerable to becoming casualties of war in the process (nearly 80 in Iraq alone so far) and give us whatever support they can. I’m one of those who hopes we’re doing our best to return that respect with reporting which is as accurate as it can be, while trying to balance every other consideration alongside.
Those of you who think journalism is about reviewing Corrie in the Sun, I'd invite you to visit http://www.cpj.org/ and learn a little about why it's a profession I'm proud to follow.
One more thing: we have families too. Whenever I leave, the worry in my wife’s eyes is genuine. If I’m as unlucky as one of the dozens of guys – servicemen, journalists, civilians and others – who haven’t made it back, I wonder if any of the posters here will brave enough to ring her up after the funeral and telling her that her husband was just ‘scum’?
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I hope no one describes any serviceman as 'scum' or 'lowlife' .
The real lowlifes are the folk who sent you there, but that has always been the case and probably always will be.
I hope no one describes any serviceman as 'scum' or 'lowlife' .
The real lowlifes are the folk who sent you there, but that has always been the case and probably always will be.
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Nigegilb, Sunfish, fly_high, green_granite and others – thank you for showing understanding and respect, offering a bit of reasoned thought about the media, and not resorting to trashy generalisations and squalid insults.
When it comes to uninformed opinion, shooting mouths off before checking facts, professional disrespect, and outright bullsh!t, some of the people here have outperformed even the worst tabloids, in my view.
I’m not planning on commenting on the Nimrod accident, under this or my usual Prune name. I know nothing about it.
But I will say that, as someone who’s had to work in conflict zones, that in my experience the military has a lot of patience with journalists, and I’ve been lucky to build a good relationship where each side respects the other’s abilities and professionalism. It’s ex-military, ex-RAF guys who’ve helped give us a solid grounding in survival tactics before we’ve been sent anywhere. You fellas know who we are – thanks.
They, and many in the service, know that we’re just trying to do a good job, and are just as vulnerable to becoming casualties of war in the process (nearly 80 in Iraq alone so far) and give us whatever support they can. I’m one of those who hopes we’re doing our best to return that respect with reporting which is as accurate as it can be, while trying to balance every other consideration alongside.
One more thing: we have families too. Whenever I leave, the worry in my wife’s eyes is genuine. If I’m as unlucky as one of the dozens of guys – servicemen, journalists, civilians and others – who haven’t made it back, I wonder if any of the brave, anonymous contributors here will feel like ringing her up and telling her that her husband was just ‘lowlife’ and ‘scum’?
When it comes to uninformed opinion, shooting mouths off before checking facts, professional disrespect, and outright bullsh!t, some of the people here have outperformed even the worst tabloids, in my view.
I’m not planning on commenting on the Nimrod accident, under this or my usual Prune name. I know nothing about it.
But I will say that, as someone who’s had to work in conflict zones, that in my experience the military has a lot of patience with journalists, and I’ve been lucky to build a good relationship where each side respects the other’s abilities and professionalism. It’s ex-military, ex-RAF guys who’ve helped give us a solid grounding in survival tactics before we’ve been sent anywhere. You fellas know who we are – thanks.
They, and many in the service, know that we’re just trying to do a good job, and are just as vulnerable to becoming casualties of war in the process (nearly 80 in Iraq alone so far) and give us whatever support they can. I’m one of those who hopes we’re doing our best to return that respect with reporting which is as accurate as it can be, while trying to balance every other consideration alongside.
One more thing: we have families too. Whenever I leave, the worry in my wife’s eyes is genuine. If I’m as unlucky as one of the dozens of guys – servicemen, journalists, civilians and others – who haven’t made it back, I wonder if any of the brave, anonymous contributors here will feel like ringing her up and telling her that her husband was just ‘lowlife’ and ‘scum’?
Please continue to do your most worthwhile and informative work, information we ALL rely upon, but ask your editors to pause and catch a breath before jumping into making comments that has many families panic and go through purgatory awaiting the news that thier loved ones are ok.
Please please, please either don't seek 'specialist' comment or seek it from those who have succeded in their military careers and are not either famous for crashing jets or have just escaped from the Queens building at Heathrow with a cv of mere tail-numbers (yes, yes...I was there too)
Finally, when's the Falcon bar open guys?
Endurance.............OMG
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Just back and catching up on the news.
BBC News 24. It's enough to make you weep! Good vid of a Hercules landing on a sand strip - the commentary - A Nimrod, like this one, which crashed yesterday.
BBC News 24. It's enough to make you weep! Good vid of a Hercules landing on a sand strip - the commentary - A Nimrod, like this one, which crashed yesterday.
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My condolences also to the families.
My first thought was Chinook, didn't even consider Nimrod, based on operational reliability etc, though RAF casualties sould have been a clue.
Let the ill-informed conjecture and hope the facts are swiftly made public
My first thought was Chinook, didn't even consider Nimrod, based on operational reliability etc, though RAF casualties sould have been a clue.
Let the ill-informed conjecture and hope the facts are swiftly made public
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So sad hearing this news.
I was never interested in MOD work and would skip past it in the newspapers until we started doing work for you guys, mainly flying you out to asi and mpn.
I'll never forget one flight I did to Qatar seeing all the guys going out there, some of them looked scared to death, they all looked so young. News like this always makes me think of that flight and all those guys and their families.
I've met some great guys in asi and mpn and stayed intouch with a few. I know one guy is out in afghan at the moment and news like this makes you want to get intouch. I tried to text earlier but mobile number isnt recognised... I dont know how the families at home cope when news like this comes up, especially when it takes so long to get the story right.
Anyway, just wanted to say I have so much more respect for you guys now.
Thoughts are with family and friends of the 14 guys and also with you guys working out there putting your own lives at risk. XXX
I was never interested in MOD work and would skip past it in the newspapers until we started doing work for you guys, mainly flying you out to asi and mpn.
I'll never forget one flight I did to Qatar seeing all the guys going out there, some of them looked scared to death, they all looked so young. News like this always makes me think of that flight and all those guys and their families.
I've met some great guys in asi and mpn and stayed intouch with a few. I know one guy is out in afghan at the moment and news like this makes you want to get intouch. I tried to text earlier but mobile number isnt recognised... I dont know how the families at home cope when news like this comes up, especially when it takes so long to get the story right.
Anyway, just wanted to say I have so much more respect for you guys now.
Thoughts are with family and friends of the 14 guys and also with you guys working out there putting your own lives at risk. XXX
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My heart sank when I heard the news on the radio. Fearing we had lost another herc and memories of XV179 going down. I know lots of guys at Kinloss and my thoughts go out to all of them and their families. Another sad sad day for the military.
Rest in peace guys.
Rest in peace guys.