Future Carrier (Including Costs)
It is not just the RN that is confronted with this kind of problem.
The USN also realized it was short of such maintenance capability and assets.
https://news.usni.org/2019/03/21/nav...tenance-report
Perhaps ORAC can report on the current situation.
There might be parallels from that can be made for the RN to consider.
The USN also realized it was short of such maintenance capability and assets.
https://news.usni.org/2019/03/21/nav...tenance-report
Perhaps ORAC can report on the current situation.
There might be parallels from that can be made for the RN to consider.
Thread Starter
I jumped the gun:
HMS Queen Elizabeth has resumed the CSG23 deployment and is participating in NATO operations and deterrence activities.
Here are some related things that might interest some:
1. A RUSI article: The UK Contribution to Security in Northern Europ
The explicit prioritisation of Northern European security is an evolution of UK policy over the past decade. The Arctic, and the High North in particular, have become central to UK strategic thinking, and they are the only regions to receive specific policy documents. UK objectives in the region are a blend of hard and soft security issues, majoring on: the protection of UK and Allied critical national infrastructure (CNI); reinforcing the rules-based international order and enforcing freedom of navigation; and managing climate change (pp. 10, 11). Central to the UK approach has been a similar security policy outlook and working with likeminded Allies and partners, in particular Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) members, on Euro-Atlantic security challenges, the utility of military force and the pervasive Russian threat. Indeed, UK engagement has increased significantly since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine; multilaterally through NATO, and minilaterally through the JEF and the Northern Group of Defence Ministers. These engagements are underpinned by bilateral and trilateral agreements, including most significantly the strong mutual security guarantees offered to both Finland and Sweden during the NATO membership process. The UK is also heavily reliant on the region for energy, with Norway being the UK’s primary gas supplier.
The acute Russian threat in Northern Europe binds Allies together. Despite Russia severely weakening and fixing a large portion of its land forces in Ukraine, the country’s naval capabilities remain largely intact, through its Northern Fleet, including strategic nuclear forces, and its Baltic Fleet – notwithstanding heavy losses (p. 6) for two Russian Arctic brigades. Russia also intends to militarily reinforce the region in response to NATO enlargement. This short-term conventional military weakness is likely to push Russia to rely more heavily on hybrid activity and nuclear signalling to achieve its objectives, which may become a potential source of conflict escalation, and which feature heavily in its 2022 Maritime Doctrine. Furthermore, some European intelligence agencies, such as the Estonian Foreign Intelligence Service, assess that Russia could still exert ‘credible military pressure’ on the Baltic states, and its military capabilities near the Estonian border could be ‘quantitatively reconstituted in up to four years’ (p. 11).
As NATO orientates its new defence posture to defend ‘every inch’ (p. 6) of NATO territory, the UK is galvanising its northern flank into the most secure Alliance region, a region that is continually the target of Russian hybrid aggression and exposed to persistent conventional and nuclear threat. The rationale for the UK’s strategic focus in the region and how this is perceived by the regional actors has been summarised thus:
Given that the United Kingdom shares historical, cultural, and geopolitical ties with the Nordic countries, the UK would benefit from having all Nordic countries within NATO. As relatively small countries, the Nordics would certainly benefit from the UK’s support, especially related to logistics, intelligence sharing, and the security provided by the nuclear umbrella. If combined with the UK’s capabilities and focus, this unified North would outrank any other European force structure and would help secure both the Eastern and Northern Flank of NATO.
The UK is the European power best placed to lead and galvanise NATO’s northern flank and support the full integration of Finland (and Sweden) into the Alliance, both through providing strategic depth and its capabilities (military, non-military and command enablers), and through its significant defence and security engagement in the region...
2. The First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Ben Key RN, has recently spoken at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, as reported by USNI News here:
Key said the United Kingdom’s growing interest in the Indo-Pacific “is a both/and, not an either/or” when it comes to its traditional emphasis on the North Atlantic and Europe. Even if the United States had to commit more naval forces to defend Taiwan, he cited the carrier cooperation agreement among the United Kingdom, France, Italy and Spain that “keeps balance” by deterring Russia’s naval ambitions.
---
Strategically, he said the impact of the Russian blockade of ports has had a major impact on the Ukrainian civilian population and economy. It also is creating a global food crisis. A naval blockade of ports shipping essentials like grain “can have far-reaching impacts on nations far away.”
---
The war, however, has not affected the Russian Navy’s submarine fleet. Likewise, Moscow’s strategic bomber force and nuclear missile force have not been affected by the war. Key also said the Russians have added five naval infantry brigades in recent years...
As has been noted, Carriers are needed for Sea Control (as discussed here) in the NATO theatre, or indeed any other, where you need to protect a force or maritime reinforcements from air and submarine threats. Two major conclusions can be reached:
A. Sea Control (ASW, air defence/AAW, and anti surface warfare) is a major mission for the carrier and the carrier group. It was during the Second World War and the Cold War, and it is again now in a renewed era of peer adversaries and contested seas.
B. Sea Control is difficult to achieve without carrier aviation. Geography, Mathematics, and Physics show that attacking aircraft are best dealt with using fighters to kill the archers, not the arrows, and that the best chance of stopping anti ship missiles is to engage the launch platform. Similarly constant helicopter ASW operations are best supported by a big deck with multiple helicopters, and Physics shows that modern long range sonars need to work in conjunction with dipping sonar to achieve their potential - and vice versa.
3. Even operations other than war can expose our forces to submarines, missile armed surface craft, and attack aircraft. See the HMS Brilliant documentary series.
At 2200 GMT tonight BBC Four will start showing Chris Terrill's 1995 documentary HMS Brilliant, about the frigate of the same name taking part in NATO operations in the Adriatic as a brutal conflict raged in Bosnia. The first episode was filmed during a period of operating in the high threat area just off the coast, and includes an air defence exercise with Sea Harriers from HMS Invincible. Although the carrier deployments were maiinly in support of forces ashore, they also had a role providing defence for upthreat naval units .
HMS Queen Elizabeth has resumed the CSG23 deployment and is participating in NATO operations and deterrence activities.
Here are some related things that might interest some:
1. A RUSI article: The UK Contribution to Security in Northern Europ
The explicit prioritisation of Northern European security is an evolution of UK policy over the past decade. The Arctic, and the High North in particular, have become central to UK strategic thinking, and they are the only regions to receive specific policy documents. UK objectives in the region are a blend of hard and soft security issues, majoring on: the protection of UK and Allied critical national infrastructure (CNI); reinforcing the rules-based international order and enforcing freedom of navigation; and managing climate change (pp. 10, 11). Central to the UK approach has been a similar security policy outlook and working with likeminded Allies and partners, in particular Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) members, on Euro-Atlantic security challenges, the utility of military force and the pervasive Russian threat. Indeed, UK engagement has increased significantly since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine; multilaterally through NATO, and minilaterally through the JEF and the Northern Group of Defence Ministers. These engagements are underpinned by bilateral and trilateral agreements, including most significantly the strong mutual security guarantees offered to both Finland and Sweden during the NATO membership process. The UK is also heavily reliant on the region for energy, with Norway being the UK’s primary gas supplier.
The acute Russian threat in Northern Europe binds Allies together. Despite Russia severely weakening and fixing a large portion of its land forces in Ukraine, the country’s naval capabilities remain largely intact, through its Northern Fleet, including strategic nuclear forces, and its Baltic Fleet – notwithstanding heavy losses (p. 6) for two Russian Arctic brigades. Russia also intends to militarily reinforce the region in response to NATO enlargement. This short-term conventional military weakness is likely to push Russia to rely more heavily on hybrid activity and nuclear signalling to achieve its objectives, which may become a potential source of conflict escalation, and which feature heavily in its 2022 Maritime Doctrine. Furthermore, some European intelligence agencies, such as the Estonian Foreign Intelligence Service, assess that Russia could still exert ‘credible military pressure’ on the Baltic states, and its military capabilities near the Estonian border could be ‘quantitatively reconstituted in up to four years’ (p. 11).
As NATO orientates its new defence posture to defend ‘every inch’ (p. 6) of NATO territory, the UK is galvanising its northern flank into the most secure Alliance region, a region that is continually the target of Russian hybrid aggression and exposed to persistent conventional and nuclear threat. The rationale for the UK’s strategic focus in the region and how this is perceived by the regional actors has been summarised thus:
Given that the United Kingdom shares historical, cultural, and geopolitical ties with the Nordic countries, the UK would benefit from having all Nordic countries within NATO. As relatively small countries, the Nordics would certainly benefit from the UK’s support, especially related to logistics, intelligence sharing, and the security provided by the nuclear umbrella. If combined with the UK’s capabilities and focus, this unified North would outrank any other European force structure and would help secure both the Eastern and Northern Flank of NATO.
The UK is the European power best placed to lead and galvanise NATO’s northern flank and support the full integration of Finland (and Sweden) into the Alliance, both through providing strategic depth and its capabilities (military, non-military and command enablers), and through its significant defence and security engagement in the region...
2. The First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Ben Key RN, has recently spoken at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, as reported by USNI News here:
Key said the United Kingdom’s growing interest in the Indo-Pacific “is a both/and, not an either/or” when it comes to its traditional emphasis on the North Atlantic and Europe. Even if the United States had to commit more naval forces to defend Taiwan, he cited the carrier cooperation agreement among the United Kingdom, France, Italy and Spain that “keeps balance” by deterring Russia’s naval ambitions.
---
Strategically, he said the impact of the Russian blockade of ports has had a major impact on the Ukrainian civilian population and economy. It also is creating a global food crisis. A naval blockade of ports shipping essentials like grain “can have far-reaching impacts on nations far away.”
---
The war, however, has not affected the Russian Navy’s submarine fleet. Likewise, Moscow’s strategic bomber force and nuclear missile force have not been affected by the war. Key also said the Russians have added five naval infantry brigades in recent years...
As has been noted, Carriers are needed for Sea Control (as discussed here) in the NATO theatre, or indeed any other, where you need to protect a force or maritime reinforcements from air and submarine threats. Two major conclusions can be reached:
A. Sea Control (ASW, air defence/AAW, and anti surface warfare) is a major mission for the carrier and the carrier group. It was during the Second World War and the Cold War, and it is again now in a renewed era of peer adversaries and contested seas.
B. Sea Control is difficult to achieve without carrier aviation. Geography, Mathematics, and Physics show that attacking aircraft are best dealt with using fighters to kill the archers, not the arrows, and that the best chance of stopping anti ship missiles is to engage the launch platform. Similarly constant helicopter ASW operations are best supported by a big deck with multiple helicopters, and Physics shows that modern long range sonars need to work in conjunction with dipping sonar to achieve their potential - and vice versa.
3. Even operations other than war can expose our forces to submarines, missile armed surface craft, and attack aircraft. See the HMS Brilliant documentary series.
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 10th Nov 2023 at 19:40.
so we're concentrating on our Northern Flank and the Indo Pacific. That didn't work out very well in WW2 when we had a lot bigger navy than we have now IIRC 
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Perhaps ORAC can report on the current situation.
Newport News is scheduled to begin its Engineering Overhaul in 2024…..
She lost her dive certification in 2017. She can't submerge.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
“809 NAS stand up in December; FOC will be declared after "we come back from the Carrier Strike Group deployment in 2025", in the words of Air Chief Marshal Sir Richard Knighton.….
9th December at 0930 I’m told…”
9th December at 0930 I’m told…”
Update on the USS Boise and the latest propaganda by NAVSEA re overhaul and maintenance delays.
NAVSEA has been a troubled command for decades.
https://www.republicworld.com/defenc...apability.news
NAVSEA has been a troubled command for decades.
https://www.republicworld.com/defenc...apability.news
Thread Starter
U.S. Navy Considers Extending All Its Nimitz-Class Carriers - Aviation Week
Demand for carriers will not likely abate soon, as evidenced by the Ford and Eisenhower operating together in the Mediterranean. The Navy has been stressed in fulfilling its post-Cold War plan for a permanent 1.0 carrier presence on station in three hubs—the Western Pacific, the wider Middle East and Europe. To keep up this presence, the service needs 15 carriers—a 3:1 ratio because of maintenance and deployment process requirements. This plan was outlined in the 1993 Bottom-Up Review under then-Defense Secretary Les Aspin, but the service has been unable to meet it since, says Steven Wills, a navalist with the Center for Maritime Strategy at the Navy League.
"whilst keeping an eye on the Indo Pacific where we will be involved with alliances. "
so what will we send in the event of trouble?
so what will we send in the event of trouble?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The WESTMINSTER dilemma. The fate of HMS Westminster remains unclear without a final answer about whether her refit is going ahead or not.
Her material state was found very poor once taken into basin for refit preparations and in July initial estimate for her refit was 100 million…..
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...395229173.html
Her material state was found very poor once taken into basin for refit preparations and in July initial estimate for her refit was 100 million…..
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...395229173.html
On the good news front the crew are now back onboard HMS St Albans as she nears completion of her LIFEX refit - Sea Ceptor, Artisan 997 air search radar , 2150 Bow Sonar, 4 new diesel power generators as part of PGMU, and one magazine adapted for Martlet.
As a dedicated ASW ship I am hoping she gets her Merlin flight back so the Saint and Sinner will be reunited.
As a dedicated ASW ship I am hoping she gets her Merlin flight back so the Saint and Sinner will be reunited.
HMS Prince of Wales aircraft carrier: tales from the flight deck
Long article in The Times today.
On a cloudy morning a grey, broad-winged aircraft raced across the deck of the HMS Prince of Wales, lifted into the sky and set off over the ocean off the eastern seaboard of the United States.
The pilot, however, remained on the aircraft carrier. “Although he was physically in that little shed, we were talking to him by radio,” said Martin Russell, who commands air operations aboard Britain’s newest and largest aircraft carrier, pointing towards a building on the deck. “We were treating him as if he was on the aircraft.”
The plane, code-named Mojave, is larger than some fighter jets, with a 56ft wingspan. But it is a drone. It was the largest unmanned aircraft ever to lift off from a European carrier, and did so as one of a series of experimental flights conducted with American air crews to establish how the carrier can work with American aircraft. For several days, F-35 fighter jets dropped onto the carrier’s 900ft deck. “We had it coming in sideways,” said Richard Hewitt, the ship’s captain. “We had it landing with full fuel.” He pointed from the window of his cabin. “You can see the scorch marks on the spot where it’s been landing.”
Out on the deck, Lieutenant Commander Neil Pitt oversaw take-offs and landings on ever-smaller segments of the deck, bouncing on his toes as the jet rose into the sky from the ramp at the end of the runway. “The jet blast was intense,” he said. “It was blasting me down the deck.” A young woman photographing the trial was knocked backwards, he said.
“The F-35s were incredible,” said James Holton, the ship’s second navigator, standing on the bridge. “Everyone was humming the Top Gun theme tune,” he said. A young crew were lined up beside him. Olivia Ryder-Maddocks, 22, the quartermaster, was steering the 65,000 tonne ship, her hands on a small steering wheel as it bore northwards at 16 knots. Several lookouts were posted at either side of the bridge. “Osprey landing in five spot!” one of them bellowed, heralding another trial involving the MV-22 Osprey, a tilt-rotor aircraft.
It was Thursday afternoon and the carrier was off the coast of North Carolina. Lieutenant Commander Chris Poulson, the ship’s navigator, informed its thousand-strong crew over the loudspeaker that it was a “cracking day for flying”. They were also close to Roanoke Island, he added, “the place where the first English settlement of the new world was attempted in 1585. Sir Walter Raleigh landed the first one hundred people.” Five years later another ship arrived to find they had vanished. “No one was ever seen again,” Poulson said. “Enjoy the rest of your day.”
Another American asset had been posted for the afternoon in a large room where sailors were learning flag signals: a yellow labrador named Ike, lent to the aircraft carrier from the USS Wasp. Ike is a lieutenant commander, according to a letter of appointment issued by the US navy, which Melanie Hennis, his handler, carries on her person. His task was “to reduce operational stress”, she said. “He goes into meetings anywhere on the ship.” He descends the ship’s steep stairs by following her, with his muzzle pressed into the back of her leg, to stop him toppling forward, she said. His appointment letter also announced that he wore a microchip. Hennis shrugged. “He’s like, an $80,000 asset,” she said.
In another cavernous room near by, a weapons officer was raising munitions from the arsenal. “It’s done on a computer. You choose what you want, a little bit like an Amazon warehouse,” he said. “This yellow pallet with all the bombs on,” he said, pointing to one he had raised earlier, could then be moved to a weapons preparation station, to be given a nose and fins and stabilisers, ready to be attached beneath the wing of an F-35.
The flight test on the deck that afternoon involved one of two Ospreys on the ship taking off and landing in a strong wind. “The Osprey at the moment is a bit restricted as to how it operates with the wind,” said Pitt, as the tilt-rotor aircraft lifted from the deck and began a wide circle of the carrier. “We are trying to improve on that so we have a bigger envelope.”
The sun was dipping and a chain of small clouds was turning blue and violet when the Osprey approached the ship again and slid, sideways, over its stern, hovering and swaying about 15ft off the ground until one of Pitt’s crew brought two hands down to signal that it should land.
The Osprey test had been a success, but one more distinctly American trial still awaited. It involved putting it in the garage. “Ospreys have landed on (Royal Navy) platforms as far back as HMS Illustrious and Ark Royal,” Hewitt said. “This will be the first time that we embarked one physically, and parked it in the hangar.”
From his sea cabin, at the ship’s bow, he pointed down at one of the aircraft on the deck. “They have effectively this morning been driving it around to see where it fits and where it can go,” he said.
It was not quite as glamorous as the experimental flights. No one thought of humming the Top Gun theme. But it was discussed with solemnity, as another proud first.
The wings would be folded and aligned with the body of the aircraft, “so it will fit in the lift and go down into the hangar”, Hewitt said.
In the hangar, Commander Richard Welsh was preparing for its arrival. “All the exciting stuff happens up there,” he said, pointing up towards the roof of the hangar, to the deck. “But for me it’s a real point of pride that we are able to bring it down here,” he said. “Just making sure that it fits.”
The pilot, however, remained on the aircraft carrier. “Although he was physically in that little shed, we were talking to him by radio,” said Martin Russell, who commands air operations aboard Britain’s newest and largest aircraft carrier, pointing towards a building on the deck. “We were treating him as if he was on the aircraft.”
The plane, code-named Mojave, is larger than some fighter jets, with a 56ft wingspan. But it is a drone. It was the largest unmanned aircraft ever to lift off from a European carrier, and did so as one of a series of experimental flights conducted with American air crews to establish how the carrier can work with American aircraft. For several days, F-35 fighter jets dropped onto the carrier’s 900ft deck. “We had it coming in sideways,” said Richard Hewitt, the ship’s captain. “We had it landing with full fuel.” He pointed from the window of his cabin. “You can see the scorch marks on the spot where it’s been landing.”
Out on the deck, Lieutenant Commander Neil Pitt oversaw take-offs and landings on ever-smaller segments of the deck, bouncing on his toes as the jet rose into the sky from the ramp at the end of the runway. “The jet blast was intense,” he said. “It was blasting me down the deck.” A young woman photographing the trial was knocked backwards, he said.
“The F-35s were incredible,” said James Holton, the ship’s second navigator, standing on the bridge. “Everyone was humming the Top Gun theme tune,” he said. A young crew were lined up beside him. Olivia Ryder-Maddocks, 22, the quartermaster, was steering the 65,000 tonne ship, her hands on a small steering wheel as it bore northwards at 16 knots. Several lookouts were posted at either side of the bridge. “Osprey landing in five spot!” one of them bellowed, heralding another trial involving the MV-22 Osprey, a tilt-rotor aircraft.
It was Thursday afternoon and the carrier was off the coast of North Carolina. Lieutenant Commander Chris Poulson, the ship’s navigator, informed its thousand-strong crew over the loudspeaker that it was a “cracking day for flying”. They were also close to Roanoke Island, he added, “the place where the first English settlement of the new world was attempted in 1585. Sir Walter Raleigh landed the first one hundred people.” Five years later another ship arrived to find they had vanished. “No one was ever seen again,” Poulson said. “Enjoy the rest of your day.”
Another American asset had been posted for the afternoon in a large room where sailors were learning flag signals: a yellow labrador named Ike, lent to the aircraft carrier from the USS Wasp. Ike is a lieutenant commander, according to a letter of appointment issued by the US navy, which Melanie Hennis, his handler, carries on her person. His task was “to reduce operational stress”, she said. “He goes into meetings anywhere on the ship.” He descends the ship’s steep stairs by following her, with his muzzle pressed into the back of her leg, to stop him toppling forward, she said. His appointment letter also announced that he wore a microchip. Hennis shrugged. “He’s like, an $80,000 asset,” she said.
In another cavernous room near by, a weapons officer was raising munitions from the arsenal. “It’s done on a computer. You choose what you want, a little bit like an Amazon warehouse,” he said. “This yellow pallet with all the bombs on,” he said, pointing to one he had raised earlier, could then be moved to a weapons preparation station, to be given a nose and fins and stabilisers, ready to be attached beneath the wing of an F-35.
The flight test on the deck that afternoon involved one of two Ospreys on the ship taking off and landing in a strong wind. “The Osprey at the moment is a bit restricted as to how it operates with the wind,” said Pitt, as the tilt-rotor aircraft lifted from the deck and began a wide circle of the carrier. “We are trying to improve on that so we have a bigger envelope.”
The sun was dipping and a chain of small clouds was turning blue and violet when the Osprey approached the ship again and slid, sideways, over its stern, hovering and swaying about 15ft off the ground until one of Pitt’s crew brought two hands down to signal that it should land.
The Osprey test had been a success, but one more distinctly American trial still awaited. It involved putting it in the garage. “Ospreys have landed on (Royal Navy) platforms as far back as HMS Illustrious and Ark Royal,” Hewitt said. “This will be the first time that we embarked one physically, and parked it in the hangar.”
From his sea cabin, at the ship’s bow, he pointed down at one of the aircraft on the deck. “They have effectively this morning been driving it around to see where it fits and where it can go,” he said.
It was not quite as glamorous as the experimental flights. No one thought of humming the Top Gun theme. But it was discussed with solemnity, as another proud first.
The wings would be folded and aligned with the body of the aircraft, “so it will fit in the lift and go down into the hangar”, Hewitt said.
In the hangar, Commander Richard Welsh was preparing for its arrival. “All the exciting stuff happens up there,” he said, pointing up towards the roof of the hangar, to the deck. “But for me it’s a real point of pride that we are able to bring it down here,” he said. “Just making sure that it fits.”
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
RN and MOD suddenly becoming very coy about the number of ships they’ll have in future….
Interesting Hansard snippet - the MOD is refusing to tell Parliament how many escort ships it plans to have in service in coming years for 'security reasons'.
This is in contrast to prior years and means the MOD won't tell the public how many ships it plans to have in service.
Interesting Hansard snippet - the MOD is refusing to tell Parliament how many escort ships it plans to have in service in coming years for 'security reasons'.
This is in contrast to prior years and means the MOD won't tell the public how many ships it plans to have in service.
"This is in contrast to prior years and means the MOD won't tell the public how many ships it plans to have in service."
I think we all know what that means............
I think we all know what that means............
1SL sppears to be concerned more about the quantum leap Types 26, 31 and 32 are going to bring getting delivered asap rather than the actual numbers at a particular date. 'the move from an analogue Navy to a digital Navy'
IMO it's worth reaading the whole transcript. https://committees.parliament.uk/ora...ce/13790/html/
Q302 Chair: Given that, as you rightly say, the Committee is of the view that we need a bigger Navy, given the number of tasks that you are faced with anyway, and given the increase in strategic challenges—we know what those are, so we don’t need to rehearse them—would it not be fair to say that we are carrying much more risk now than we were a couple of years ago?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: I couldn’t possibly disagree with that because of the level of uncertainty. If we could specify exactly what was going to happen and when, we could manage against that.
Q303 Chair: It is not just uncertainty, though, because that’s life. We are always in a position where we don’t know what’s coming next, but we know that we have strategic challenges, and the middle east has presented us with another one over the course of the last month.
Admiral Sir Ben Key: There absolutely are, yes. I agree.
Q304 Mr Francois: We will come on to this in more detail later on, First Sea Lord. The job of the Navy is to contribute to deterrence and try to prevent war, but should deterrence fail to win, we have 17 frigates and destroyers on paper. How many of those could fight tonight? How many are operationally available today?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: I am not mandated to have all of those 17 available to fight tonight.
Q305 Mr Francois: We understand that. Of course, some have to be in refit or maintenance—to be fair, we wrote a report on that—but how many could fight tonight?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: We maintain a readiness profile. Some can respond at very short notice and some might require 30 days’ notice, which is perfectly respectable. If they have come back from a long deployment and they are not required for immediate tasking, we can allow some more intrusive maintenance to take place. By the definition “fight tonight”, they would fall short, but they could be quickly brought up to some form of readiness and deployed. In 1982, the fleet that Henry Leach deployed wouldn’t have answered the question that you have asked. The number deployed in a 72-hour period was far higher than anything that the readiness profile would have been, but it became a moment of national endeavour and some sophisticated risk judgments as to what you could get away with. I am currently able to meet all the tasks required of me by the defence plan from the frigate and destroyer force that is in the operational fleet.
Q306 Mr Francois: That is really helpful, but you never gave us a number.
Admiral Sir Ben Key: No.
Q307 Mr Francois: Let’s ask you again: how many?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: Because the—
Q308 Mr Francois: Is it in double figures or single figures?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: A very high readiness is in single figures, but that is because we maintain about 50% of the fleet at high readiness and above. Seventeen divided by two is nine—eight and a half.
Mr Francois: Eight and a half. Thank you.
Q309 Chair: The point here is that you say you have a readiness profile that you measure against, and you are able to fulfil the ask that is made of you by CDS and by Ministers. Shouldn’t we be democratically scrutinising whether the task you are asked to fulfil is adequate?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: If your question is whether you should be democratically scrutinising whether the tasks are adequate, that is not for me to respond to.
Chair: It was whether the planning assumptions are right.
Admiral Sir Ben Key: I don’t own the task allocation; I am merely forced to generate forces against that. The range of tasks would be a question for Ministers. As for whether I have sufficient forces to meet the full range of tasks all the time in the way they would wish, as I said at the beginning, there is always a desire to do more than the fleet is actually capable of doing. What we pride ourselves on is the degree of agility that will allow us to rebalance against what the ministerial priorities are at the time.
We could over-squeeze the particular example of Dauntless, but that was a piece of direction by the Minister for the Armed Forces in response to Foreign Office and Government policy to put a meaningful capability into the Caribbean during the core hurricane season. A number of ships were available that could have been re-tasked to do that, each of which came with a penalty, and the Minister for the Armed Forces determined on HMS Dauntless.
Q310 Chair: Given that our task is to scrutinise what the MoD is doing and whether it is providing sufficient for the tasks you are able to do, should we not be looking at the defence planning assumptions and whether the force that you are able to generate against the assumptions is up to scratch? That would assist the Navy in ensuring that it is ready, would it not?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: Because our defence planning assumptions are kept as a classified document, that would be something we could cover in more detail in a closed session.
Chair: Thank you.
Q311 Derek Twigg: Just quickly to follow on from the Chair’s earlier question, you have already said that you are very stretched and that you can’t predict everything. Of course, we could see something happening in the south-east Pacific, in the South China Sea, and then you would be really stretched. We all seem to agree that there should be a larger Navy, and I am not going to press you by saying, “How many more ships?”, “How many more assets?” or whatever, but what would you really like in addition to what you have now?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: What I would really like, if I could, would be to accelerate the pace of transformation from the ships and submarines that we have on build at the moment to the new Navy. We are going through a tremendously exciting transformation at the moment: the Type 26, which is a world-leading ASW frigate; the Type 31s, which are a really innovative way of thinking differently about a general purpose frigate; and the new submarines that we have on order. All these are just about to arrive, in strategic terms.
For us, that represents one of the single biggest transformations in the history of the Navy—when we genuinely move from an analogue Navy to a digital Navy. It is something almost as powerful as when Jackie Fisher, my predecessor many back, took the Navy from sail and coal into oil, which conceptually drove a different way of thinking and operating. For me, Mr Twigg, the first thing I would really look forward to is the acceleration to these new platforms, which will be more available than the old ones they replace, more capable than the old ones they replace—
Derek Twigg: But not a bigger Navy.
Admiral Sir Ben Key: And more deployable than the old ones they replace. That is an important first stage in growing the Navy, but we have to get through that transformation from the old to the new first before you then step forward into a bigger Navy.
Q312 Derek Twigg: I accept all that, and what you have just said is perfectly reasonable, but I again put the question to you: if you had a choice, what would you like, in addition to what you have now, that would fit into the fact that we would like a bigger Navy?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: I would look at the most successful, most productive parts of the Navy at the moment, and at broadly doubling up on those. There is fantastic utility coming out of the offshore patrol vessels in terms of delivering United Kingdom presence around the world in a very cost effective manner. High commissioners and ambassadors around the world regularly report diplomatic telegrams about the impact that those ships are having. I look at the journey that our amphibious fleet is going to undertake over the next few years, and recognise the importance of the commando forces. These are really key elements of the future design, and so we should make sure that we are maximising our capacity and capability there. The previous Secretary of State pointed to that programme when he announced the MRSS decision, which will go jointly with the Dutch.
These are the things that give us a chance to do some of the stuff that the Royal Navy is fantastic at, which is thought leadership among other navies. We will never be the biggest—that is not a gift that is going with us, and I do not think that matters—but we want to make a really effective and influential contribution around the world. Those are the sorts of platforms, beyond the plans that are currently in place, that would make a huge difference.
Admiral Sir Ben Key: I couldn’t possibly disagree with that because of the level of uncertainty. If we could specify exactly what was going to happen and when, we could manage against that.
Q303 Chair: It is not just uncertainty, though, because that’s life. We are always in a position where we don’t know what’s coming next, but we know that we have strategic challenges, and the middle east has presented us with another one over the course of the last month.
Admiral Sir Ben Key: There absolutely are, yes. I agree.
Q304 Mr Francois: We will come on to this in more detail later on, First Sea Lord. The job of the Navy is to contribute to deterrence and try to prevent war, but should deterrence fail to win, we have 17 frigates and destroyers on paper. How many of those could fight tonight? How many are operationally available today?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: I am not mandated to have all of those 17 available to fight tonight.
Q305 Mr Francois: We understand that. Of course, some have to be in refit or maintenance—to be fair, we wrote a report on that—but how many could fight tonight?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: We maintain a readiness profile. Some can respond at very short notice and some might require 30 days’ notice, which is perfectly respectable. If they have come back from a long deployment and they are not required for immediate tasking, we can allow some more intrusive maintenance to take place. By the definition “fight tonight”, they would fall short, but they could be quickly brought up to some form of readiness and deployed. In 1982, the fleet that Henry Leach deployed wouldn’t have answered the question that you have asked. The number deployed in a 72-hour period was far higher than anything that the readiness profile would have been, but it became a moment of national endeavour and some sophisticated risk judgments as to what you could get away with. I am currently able to meet all the tasks required of me by the defence plan from the frigate and destroyer force that is in the operational fleet.
Q306 Mr Francois: That is really helpful, but you never gave us a number.
Admiral Sir Ben Key: No.
Q307 Mr Francois: Let’s ask you again: how many?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: Because the—
Q308 Mr Francois: Is it in double figures or single figures?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: A very high readiness is in single figures, but that is because we maintain about 50% of the fleet at high readiness and above. Seventeen divided by two is nine—eight and a half.
Mr Francois: Eight and a half. Thank you.
Q309 Chair: The point here is that you say you have a readiness profile that you measure against, and you are able to fulfil the ask that is made of you by CDS and by Ministers. Shouldn’t we be democratically scrutinising whether the task you are asked to fulfil is adequate?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: If your question is whether you should be democratically scrutinising whether the tasks are adequate, that is not for me to respond to.
Chair: It was whether the planning assumptions are right.
Admiral Sir Ben Key: I don’t own the task allocation; I am merely forced to generate forces against that. The range of tasks would be a question for Ministers. As for whether I have sufficient forces to meet the full range of tasks all the time in the way they would wish, as I said at the beginning, there is always a desire to do more than the fleet is actually capable of doing. What we pride ourselves on is the degree of agility that will allow us to rebalance against what the ministerial priorities are at the time.
We could over-squeeze the particular example of Dauntless, but that was a piece of direction by the Minister for the Armed Forces in response to Foreign Office and Government policy to put a meaningful capability into the Caribbean during the core hurricane season. A number of ships were available that could have been re-tasked to do that, each of which came with a penalty, and the Minister for the Armed Forces determined on HMS Dauntless.
Q310 Chair: Given that our task is to scrutinise what the MoD is doing and whether it is providing sufficient for the tasks you are able to do, should we not be looking at the defence planning assumptions and whether the force that you are able to generate against the assumptions is up to scratch? That would assist the Navy in ensuring that it is ready, would it not?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: Because our defence planning assumptions are kept as a classified document, that would be something we could cover in more detail in a closed session.
Chair: Thank you.
Q311 Derek Twigg: Just quickly to follow on from the Chair’s earlier question, you have already said that you are very stretched and that you can’t predict everything. Of course, we could see something happening in the south-east Pacific, in the South China Sea, and then you would be really stretched. We all seem to agree that there should be a larger Navy, and I am not going to press you by saying, “How many more ships?”, “How many more assets?” or whatever, but what would you really like in addition to what you have now?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: What I would really like, if I could, would be to accelerate the pace of transformation from the ships and submarines that we have on build at the moment to the new Navy. We are going through a tremendously exciting transformation at the moment: the Type 26, which is a world-leading ASW frigate; the Type 31s, which are a really innovative way of thinking differently about a general purpose frigate; and the new submarines that we have on order. All these are just about to arrive, in strategic terms.
For us, that represents one of the single biggest transformations in the history of the Navy—when we genuinely move from an analogue Navy to a digital Navy. It is something almost as powerful as when Jackie Fisher, my predecessor many back, took the Navy from sail and coal into oil, which conceptually drove a different way of thinking and operating. For me, Mr Twigg, the first thing I would really look forward to is the acceleration to these new platforms, which will be more available than the old ones they replace, more capable than the old ones they replace—
Derek Twigg: But not a bigger Navy.
Admiral Sir Ben Key: And more deployable than the old ones they replace. That is an important first stage in growing the Navy, but we have to get through that transformation from the old to the new first before you then step forward into a bigger Navy.
Q312 Derek Twigg: I accept all that, and what you have just said is perfectly reasonable, but I again put the question to you: if you had a choice, what would you like, in addition to what you have now, that would fit into the fact that we would like a bigger Navy?
Admiral Sir Ben Key: I would look at the most successful, most productive parts of the Navy at the moment, and at broadly doubling up on those. There is fantastic utility coming out of the offshore patrol vessels in terms of delivering United Kingdom presence around the world in a very cost effective manner. High commissioners and ambassadors around the world regularly report diplomatic telegrams about the impact that those ships are having. I look at the journey that our amphibious fleet is going to undertake over the next few years, and recognise the importance of the commando forces. These are really key elements of the future design, and so we should make sure that we are maximising our capacity and capability there. The previous Secretary of State pointed to that programme when he announced the MRSS decision, which will go jointly with the Dutch.
These are the things that give us a chance to do some of the stuff that the Royal Navy is fantastic at, which is thought leadership among other navies. We will never be the biggest—that is not a gift that is going with us, and I do not think that matters—but we want to make a really effective and influential contribution around the world. Those are the sorts of platforms, beyond the plans that are currently in place, that would make a huge difference.
Last edited by SLXOwft; 17th Nov 2023 at 18:28. Reason: missing link
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Mojave drone successfully lands on and takes off from HMS Prince of Wales
Thank goodness for the BIG DECK: UK Royal Navy Tests Mojave Drone Aboard Aircraft Carrier - Naval News
JPG: ga-asi-demostrates-short-takeoff-landing.jpg (1200×630) (navalnews.com)
Thank goodness for the BIG DECK: UK Royal Navy Tests Mojave Drone Aboard Aircraft Carrier - Naval News
JPG: ga-asi-demostrates-short-takeoff-landing.jpg (1200×630) (navalnews.com)
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Nov 2023 at 19:29. Reason: +vid
Video of the Mojave taking off (truncated) and landing and commentary by Commodore Steve Bolton (over the loud music) in which he mentions a multinational delegation observing the trial. The take off run was along the broken line angled across the deck,
www.navylookout.com%2Fmojave-uncrewed-air-system-successfully-flown-from-hms-prince-of-wales%2F&usg=AOvVaw27xWter8OGc1hsH7JxsoLv&opi=89978449
www.navylookout.com%2Fmojave-uncrewed-air-system-successfully-flown-from-hms-prince-of-wales%2F&usg=AOvVaw27xWter8OGc1hsH7JxsoLv&opi=89978449
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Another story + annoying advertisements: Mojave Drone Flies From British Aircraft Carrier | The Drive
GIF: https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/202...4.05.20-PM.png
GIF: https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/202...4.05.20-PM.png
It is the way of the future. The spec sheet in the video says, landing in as little as 335ft. It may need a trap or better brakes on V2.0
"The drone also apparently did not operate with a full load of fuel let alone weapons, sensors, or other stores, which is common for initial tests like this."
PS you don't use an ad blocker? For some sites, I even use noscript
"The drone also apparently did not operate with a full load of fuel let alone weapons, sensors, or other stores, which is common for initial tests like this."
PS you don't use an ad blocker? For some sites, I even use noscript