Flying Pay
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I am not one to stir things up between air and ground crew as I used to be a ground tradesman myself, I also believe that both do need each other. Before I mention flying pay etc. I am very aware of the pressures that the ground crew are under these days, in particular due to the leaning process. Things are at an all time low, that includes morale, airframe sevicibility/availability and funding to HM Forces in real terms. Many individuals are eagerly awaiting the results of the Tranche 3 redundances, which affects mainly the aircraft trades. I know of several people who are awaiting these results, either to get the redundancy package or to leave regardless if not selected. Flying pay is an emotive subject, from being one who didn't get it in my previous life to one who now gets it I can see both points of view. Flying pay is there for a reason as were the retention bonuses, that not every one qualified for. I wanted to move on from my ground trade, even though I loved it and the thought of getting paid more was one of the many reasons to jump ship to NCA. We are very short of pilots and WSOps various so rather than complain about it why don't some of you apply for aircrew, after the roughly 3 years of training you too can be getting flying pay. This doesn't resolve the lack of aircraft maintainers and experience levels in that field, seems madness that we're getting rid of the people we should be trying to keep. Lastly, I read with interest that there was a whinge about Wg Cdrs getting flying pay, I can assure some of those doubters, Southside included, that certainly my boss does his fair share (including OOA) in these days of pilot shortages as well as putting in the many extra hours running the Sqn and doing all the admin that comes along with that role. I wish I had a magic wand to fix all the problems, but in these days of buget considerations, overstretch and even more leaning (cutbacks) what can we do. Well maybe one thing is to at least understand each others problems, so that if we are going to bitch we can do it in the appropriate direction and not at each other.
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Turnbull if there are no shortage of WSOps suggest you look at the RAF Careers website and youll see what trades are urgently required, like Gunners, Musicians, ATC, Fighter Controllers and WSOps. Dental and Nursing Officers also required. Can take a while to scroll through.
www.rafcareers.com/jobselector/
In an ideal world there would be retention packages for all.
www.rafcareers.com/jobselector/
In an ideal world there would be retention packages for all.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
The response to the Flying Pay question is the same as it has always been. Show the individual in question the appropriate application form for Flying Pay. Now admittedly, it may not be called the "Flying Pay Application Form" these days, it's probably called something like the "Aircrew Selection Form", but it's all the same. Fill it in, pass the medical, pass the selection, pass the course, pass the operational training, collect the dosh. Simple, and works for any branch of the Services.
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Ah but should that Navigator who sits very near me on the Mighty Hunter get more flying (danger?) pay? Now that I will never understand. True, as an Officer you should get paid more. However if flying pay is some kind of danger money, or incentive to stay then it should be equal for all Aircrew who fly regardless of rank.
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Originally Posted by grousehunter
However if flying pay is some kind of danger money, or incentive to stay then it should be equal for all Aircrew who fly regardless of rank.
Oggin
(see, if I had submitted that post I would have inflamed NCA aircrew, the whole of the RAF and the Army, so its a good job that I didnt!)
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Flying Pay common sense
Well done Hoots for a clear and well argued post.
All 3 Services, and all ranks who fly aircraft, joined the aircrew cadre knowing the full score with regards to flying pay. All those who joined HM Forces who aren't aircrew, knew that they wouldn't get flying pay when they joined, so please stop having a 'chip' on your shoulder on the topic.
I think Formula One drivers get paid too much, but I understood that you have to be one in order to receive the benefits. If you want the cash, then do the job.......
All 3 Services, and all ranks who fly aircraft, joined the aircrew cadre knowing the full score with regards to flying pay. All those who joined HM Forces who aren't aircrew, knew that they wouldn't get flying pay when they joined, so please stop having a 'chip' on your shoulder on the topic.
I think Formula One drivers get paid too much, but I understood that you have to be one in order to receive the benefits. If you want the cash, then do the job.......
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Thought so, all the usual tosh about working harder at school and 'I am all right jack'. Do any other Service professionals get extra pay for doing their primary job? I am given to understand that sub-mariners get extra dosh but what about all the other boat drivers in the RN? Surely driving a destroyer or aicraft carrier is every bit as demanding as flying a plane, so do you get extra? Always assuming you don't crash into the only rock for fifty miles that is.
Why do you Avian Master race types feel you deserve special treatment? If flying the winged equivelent of a formula one car is not enough to keep you interested then sod off and fly pissed up tourists to Benadorm in a winged double decker.
Why do you Avian Master race types feel you deserve special treatment? If flying the winged equivelent of a formula one car is not enough to keep you interested then sod off and fly pissed up tourists to Benadorm in a winged double decker.
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Dogfish
Yes, they do. How about doctors, lawyers etc etc.
The simple fact is, that if you want to do 4 years training and get paid an extra £10 a day after this trg for the first four years, then crack on and join us.
If you think aircrew would hang around without this pay, when you could earn substantially more outside the Forces, then think again. By the way the FRI has been canned in the RAF - but not the Navy I understand! Some GR-7 pilots being paid more than others?? Feel free to correct me if I'm talking b@llox.
Yes, they do. How about doctors, lawyers etc etc.
The simple fact is, that if you want to do 4 years training and get paid an extra £10 a day after this trg for the first four years, then crack on and join us.
If you think aircrew would hang around without this pay, when you could earn substantially more outside the Forces, then think again. By the way the FRI has been canned in the RAF - but not the Navy I understand! Some GR-7 pilots being paid more than others?? Feel free to correct me if I'm talking b@llox.
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Dogfish,
Extra Pay for doing their jobs?
Well, how about Naval clearance divers or Bomb Disposal in any of the Services?
As for you; well you have been specially selected to train as a Forward Air Controller to operate with deep penetration SAS Teams. You will be required to undergo a "Short Course" on "High Altitude Low Opening" (HALO) Parachute Techniques. In view of your objections parachute pay will not be granted; nor will hazardous duty pay or refund of any increase in your life insurance premiums.
You are recommended to seek a Solicitors advice regarding a will.
Extra Pay for doing their jobs?
Well, how about Naval clearance divers or Bomb Disposal in any of the Services?
As for you; well you have been specially selected to train as a Forward Air Controller to operate with deep penetration SAS Teams. You will be required to undergo a "Short Course" on "High Altitude Low Opening" (HALO) Parachute Techniques. In view of your objections parachute pay will not be granted; nor will hazardous duty pay or refund of any increase in your life insurance premiums.
You are recommended to seek a Solicitors advice regarding a will.
Last edited by cazatou; 27th Mar 2006 at 18:05.
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Dogfish.
If I wasn't paid a lot more than you, I wouldn't be able to support my lavish lifestyle.
It's easy for you stupid ugly people, you have no idea of the pressures us important attractive people are under. I mean, my porsche is getting old now (practically last century!), and I havn't blown £1000 on champagne in one piss up for some months now. People are starting to talk! Take away my Junior Officers Unnecessary Purchase money(known as Flying Pay) and I would be rightly flung from my yacht club for resembling an oik like you.
I hope that clears things up......
........oh before you go, kindly clean my hire car and drop it off at MT....there's a good chap, chop chop.
If I wasn't paid a lot more than you, I wouldn't be able to support my lavish lifestyle.
It's easy for you stupid ugly people, you have no idea of the pressures us important attractive people are under. I mean, my porsche is getting old now (practically last century!), and I havn't blown £1000 on champagne in one piss up for some months now. People are starting to talk! Take away my Junior Officers Unnecessary Purchase money(known as Flying Pay) and I would be rightly flung from my yacht club for resembling an oik like you.
I hope that clears things up......
........oh before you go, kindly clean my hire car and drop it off at MT....there's a good chap, chop chop.
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Yes thanks Dogfish. Jack is quite alright thank you very much...doing the job for the rate of pay published when he/she decided to become aircrew.
Why should aircrew have to justify it. They receive it, now get over it....
Why should aircrew have to justify it. They receive it, now get over it....
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The reason that they want to retain aircrew and so are willing to pay flying pay is that they have invested very significant sums of money in their training.
I do not have the exact figures, but consider for example each Chinook hour cost 14,000 pounds and an OCF will give Abo pilots say 100 hours - that equals 1.4 million pounds. Divide by 4 as you will be training 4 people at a time so the cost for the Chinook OCF is 300,000 pounds +. That is for the OCF alone; then add EFT, BFT and subsequently any post grad training and you have a significant investment.
So you want to retain an individual that you have invested so much money in and flying pay is one way of doing this.
You could remove flying pay and there would be an exodus - not just to the airlines so even when the airline industry saturates, there would still be an outflow. The training system could in no way cope with the numbers exiting - it struggles at the moment in many areas.
In short flying pay is a retention tool for personnel who have had a lot of money invested. It is not danger money and it is not a measure of a particular individual's worth in the military. Everyone in the military is there to support UK defence policy - aircrew are just one link in the chain that achieves that.
GB2
I do not have the exact figures, but consider for example each Chinook hour cost 14,000 pounds and an OCF will give Abo pilots say 100 hours - that equals 1.4 million pounds. Divide by 4 as you will be training 4 people at a time so the cost for the Chinook OCF is 300,000 pounds +. That is for the OCF alone; then add EFT, BFT and subsequently any post grad training and you have a significant investment.
So you want to retain an individual that you have invested so much money in and flying pay is one way of doing this.
You could remove flying pay and there would be an exodus - not just to the airlines so even when the airline industry saturates, there would still be an outflow. The training system could in no way cope with the numbers exiting - it struggles at the moment in many areas.
In short flying pay is a retention tool for personnel who have had a lot of money invested. It is not danger money and it is not a measure of a particular individual's worth in the military. Everyone in the military is there to support UK defence policy - aircrew are just one link in the chain that achieves that.
GB2
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Original by Anita Bush
I'd love to be a Wg Cdr FC............... but I couldn't afford the pay cut!
I'd love to be a Wg Cdr FC............... but I couldn't afford the pay cut!
Smiling DentO
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Originally Posted by cazatou
Dogfish,
Extra Pay for doing their jobs?
Well, how about Naval clearance divers or Bomb Disposal in any of the Services?
.
Extra Pay for doing their jobs?
Well, how about Naval clearance divers or Bomb Disposal in any of the Services?
.
may have missed your meaning on this one ... RN Clearance Divers do get extra dosh (loads), no other UK service EOD Operators or assistants do. The US Army get about £85 per month as qualification pay.
Hope this correct a misaprehension.
