RAF pilot training ...... yes or no?
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Scroggs 
As i stated before, i am going to get some information from a careers woman at my college, and take things from there. However i have an appointment for a 24 hour ECG trace, so i will find out how things are in that dept.
As i have said before also, i do appreciate constructive comment, however how many people have heard one thing (from a person who should know), and still had a problem accepting it? Indeed, the majority of you probably have.
Also, correct me if i am wrong, but this forum is indeed for people who seek information? So people who do not have a lot of information on the RAF are welcomed to ask questions? Thought so.
Well, i am not here to be a troll or flame, just for information, i wills ay it yet again, i do appreciate constructive comments. (operative word being contructive)
Thanks again
As i stated before, i am going to get some information from a careers woman at my college, and take things from there. However i have an appointment for a 24 hour ECG trace, so i will find out how things are in that dept.
As i have said before also, i do appreciate constructive comment, however how many people have heard one thing (from a person who should know), and still had a problem accepting it? Indeed, the majority of you probably have.
Also, correct me if i am wrong, but this forum is indeed for people who seek information? So people who do not have a lot of information on the RAF are welcomed to ask questions? Thought so.
Well, i am not here to be a troll or flame, just for information, i wills ay it yet again, i do appreciate constructive comments. (operative word being contructive)
Thanks again
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Also, for the people wanting a handbag fight, I was not slagging off the rotary pilots, i just express a preferance for fixed wing flight - whats wrong with that?
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Danny_manchester
I’m very sorry to read that you have a heart condition that you consider may preclude your making a successful application to join the Royal Air Force as a commissioned officer in the General Duties (Pilot) Branch. Whilst you do not mention specifics of the condition, I make the assumption that it is neither currently debilitating, nor is likely to become so in the future; hence your apparent optimism that it need not affect your chances of successful application to OASC. I have great sympathy for any young person who has a genuine and legitimate aspiration and who may find him or herself thwarted by medical circumstance beyond personal control. Let us hope that this is not the case.
That said and if yours is a genuine aspiration, permit me a few observations.
You may not have had explained to you the difference between self respect and self esteem, the latter of which, you seem to have in abundance. Allow me to elucidate. The self respect felt by an individual, relates to an inner, private and entirely appropriate personal satisfaction, gained, amongst other things, from the individual’s knowledge of plus third party recognition of, genuine achievement following determined effort, perhaps in the face of adversity, philanthropy, academic or sporting prowess and moral steadfastness in difficult circumstances. Moreover, these feelings are never demonstrated, merely covered by an unassuming, modest demeanour. Look carefully at anyone you may consider worthy of real respect (not someone towards whom you may have vicarious feelings of modish celebrity following). Do they not exude this aura?
Self esteem, on the other hand, denotes an entirely unwarranted satisfaction with self, based on the individual’s misconception and self delusion of personal and, perhaps, moral worth, attainment, knowledge, intelligence and aptitude.
I reliably receive continuing guidance on this fine distinction from writer Dr. Theodore Dalrymple, who’s periodic column in the Spectator magazine (of which publication I confess to being an avid reader) draws attention to the ills visited on contemporary society by the surfeit of , by definition, misplaced self regard amongst our population: a self regard, or esteem, generated by the apparent requirement of our education system to see no fault or limitation in the individual pupil and to bolster, on all occasions, a false sense of individual attainment and ability.
May I therefore draw your attention to your apparent surfeit of self esteem (as other, well experienced and knowledgeable contributors on this thread have attempted)?
You appear to have scant knowledge of the requirements to gain entry to the Branch which you indicate you desire. Perhaps a little more study would not go amiss, to fill those gaps which your self esteem will not presently let you recognise? Perhaps you should have already approached an RAF recruiting centre before posting on pprune – you’d certainly then have had the knowledge to make you realise the scale of your proposed undertaking and to eradicate your seemly flip attitude towards something that “looks like a good idea to me at this moment in time”.
Similarly, your displayed attitude towards the requirement for sound English language skills leading to successful selection leaves something of a question mark. You may, indeed, have good skills and aptitude in the subjects of maths, physics and chemistry, but, to achieve success in officer selection, you will require to display an ease, fluency and accuracy of both written and spoken communication; an accomplishment only facilitated by these same good English skills. You will similarly be required to display a potential for great attention to detail. If I may say so, to date, your language skills do not indicate either accomplishment or potential. Whilst not being required to spot a split-infinitive at fifty paces, you are required to display a facility beyond your present poor spelling, punctuation and grammar.
You will also be required to demonstrate a respect for the vocation you seek, coupled with a recognition that, if fortunate enough to be selected, you would definitely be at the bottom of the ladder and would require to work very hard and listen very attentively to superiors of vast experience and attainment. Again, if I may say so, you do not currently convey this willingness but, rather, give the impression of being a remarkably self possessed seventeen year old, equipped with a large measure of breezy self-confidence. Whilst this is by no means a bad thing – in fact it’s necessary – it does need careful self-monitoring and tempering, so as to not give the wrong impression of un-preparedness for work or inability to give due respect to experience. If I might mention, I was fortunate enough, in the mid-1960’s, to be accepted for what you aspire to. Even as a callow youth, I was able to recognise the remarkable privilege that fate had allowed me and, to this date, I have retained the facility to marvel at my good fortune to be part of such a cohesive, professional and, frankly, wonderful organisation (as was then) for an eight years that passed like eight months. You presently do not evidence this facility.
I have taken the trouble to prepare this post, not to censure or discourage you, but to draw your attention now, to what will inevitable be drawn to your attention at OASC. If you wish to succeed, take heed of this and other absolutely honest postings; now is the time to reappraise your attitudes.
Jackonicko is correct – “I think you need to grow up a bit and learn some humility before you're fit to join the RAF in any capacity, let alone as someone holding the Queen's Commission”. However, I wish you well and hope that you can reflect and change.
I’m very sorry to read that you have a heart condition that you consider may preclude your making a successful application to join the Royal Air Force as a commissioned officer in the General Duties (Pilot) Branch. Whilst you do not mention specifics of the condition, I make the assumption that it is neither currently debilitating, nor is likely to become so in the future; hence your apparent optimism that it need not affect your chances of successful application to OASC. I have great sympathy for any young person who has a genuine and legitimate aspiration and who may find him or herself thwarted by medical circumstance beyond personal control. Let us hope that this is not the case.
That said and if yours is a genuine aspiration, permit me a few observations.
You may not have had explained to you the difference between self respect and self esteem, the latter of which, you seem to have in abundance. Allow me to elucidate. The self respect felt by an individual, relates to an inner, private and entirely appropriate personal satisfaction, gained, amongst other things, from the individual’s knowledge of plus third party recognition of, genuine achievement following determined effort, perhaps in the face of adversity, philanthropy, academic or sporting prowess and moral steadfastness in difficult circumstances. Moreover, these feelings are never demonstrated, merely covered by an unassuming, modest demeanour. Look carefully at anyone you may consider worthy of real respect (not someone towards whom you may have vicarious feelings of modish celebrity following). Do they not exude this aura?
Self esteem, on the other hand, denotes an entirely unwarranted satisfaction with self, based on the individual’s misconception and self delusion of personal and, perhaps, moral worth, attainment, knowledge, intelligence and aptitude.
I reliably receive continuing guidance on this fine distinction from writer Dr. Theodore Dalrymple, who’s periodic column in the Spectator magazine (of which publication I confess to being an avid reader) draws attention to the ills visited on contemporary society by the surfeit of , by definition, misplaced self regard amongst our population: a self regard, or esteem, generated by the apparent requirement of our education system to see no fault or limitation in the individual pupil and to bolster, on all occasions, a false sense of individual attainment and ability.
May I therefore draw your attention to your apparent surfeit of self esteem (as other, well experienced and knowledgeable contributors on this thread have attempted)?
You appear to have scant knowledge of the requirements to gain entry to the Branch which you indicate you desire. Perhaps a little more study would not go amiss, to fill those gaps which your self esteem will not presently let you recognise? Perhaps you should have already approached an RAF recruiting centre before posting on pprune – you’d certainly then have had the knowledge to make you realise the scale of your proposed undertaking and to eradicate your seemly flip attitude towards something that “looks like a good idea to me at this moment in time”.
Similarly, your displayed attitude towards the requirement for sound English language skills leading to successful selection leaves something of a question mark. You may, indeed, have good skills and aptitude in the subjects of maths, physics and chemistry, but, to achieve success in officer selection, you will require to display an ease, fluency and accuracy of both written and spoken communication; an accomplishment only facilitated by these same good English skills. You will similarly be required to display a potential for great attention to detail. If I may say so, to date, your language skills do not indicate either accomplishment or potential. Whilst not being required to spot a split-infinitive at fifty paces, you are required to display a facility beyond your present poor spelling, punctuation and grammar.
You will also be required to demonstrate a respect for the vocation you seek, coupled with a recognition that, if fortunate enough to be selected, you would definitely be at the bottom of the ladder and would require to work very hard and listen very attentively to superiors of vast experience and attainment. Again, if I may say so, you do not currently convey this willingness but, rather, give the impression of being a remarkably self possessed seventeen year old, equipped with a large measure of breezy self-confidence. Whilst this is by no means a bad thing – in fact it’s necessary – it does need careful self-monitoring and tempering, so as to not give the wrong impression of un-preparedness for work or inability to give due respect to experience. If I might mention, I was fortunate enough, in the mid-1960’s, to be accepted for what you aspire to. Even as a callow youth, I was able to recognise the remarkable privilege that fate had allowed me and, to this date, I have retained the facility to marvel at my good fortune to be part of such a cohesive, professional and, frankly, wonderful organisation (as was then) for an eight years that passed like eight months. You presently do not evidence this facility.
I have taken the trouble to prepare this post, not to censure or discourage you, but to draw your attention now, to what will inevitable be drawn to your attention at OASC. If you wish to succeed, take heed of this and other absolutely honest postings; now is the time to reappraise your attitudes.
Jackonicko is correct – “I think you need to grow up a bit and learn some humility before you're fit to join the RAF in any capacity, let alone as someone holding the Queen's Commission”. However, I wish you well and hope that you can reflect and change.
pilot requirements
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***You appear to have scant knowledge of the requirements to gain entry to the Branch which you indicate you desire. Perhaps a little more study would not go amiss***
Hands up in the air, but that is the whole idea of having a forum, so that one can ask questions.
Hands up in the air, but that is the whole idea of having a forum, so that one can ask questions.
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sorry to say you wont get to fly with a heart condition as ALL persons who apply for OASC as GD(P) are assessed and assumed to go to FJ ops.
Now that is a post which is written as a fact, Now unless you are a medical officer, you cannot make that assumption. I am happy to listen to constructive comment, however people can make an opinion on what happens, however only a qualified doctor could tell me the facts.
Now that is a post which is written as a fact, Now unless you are a medical officer, you cannot make that assumption. I am happy to listen to constructive comment, however people can make an opinion on what happens, however only a qualified doctor could tell me the facts.
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You say that they are assessed? which will be true, i would imagine ALL potential pilots will be assessed on their individual case, and not simply, "Heart condition? - no way" as you seem to think.
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Danny,
granted you were fishing for info at first, but go back an have a good hard look at what you wrote in your subsequent posts. If you were only fishing for info rather than the self adoration posts, do you really think this thread would have generated so much interest?
Do you honestly think someone like highcirrus would spend so much time writing a mammoth post if it were not for you arrogant attitude?
Hang on...
can you hear that?
can you?
listen...
that’s the sound of three pages worth of professional aviators and officers trying to push round that crank to wind your neck in.
granted you were fishing for info at first, but go back an have a good hard look at what you wrote in your subsequent posts. If you were only fishing for info rather than the self adoration posts, do you really think this thread would have generated so much interest?
Do you honestly think someone like highcirrus would spend so much time writing a mammoth post if it were not for you arrogant attitude?
Hang on...
can you hear that?
can you?
listen...
that’s the sound of three pages worth of professional aviators and officers trying to push round that crank to wind your neck in.
Danny,
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Apply and see how you get on. What do you have to lose? Sadly, I'm pretty sure that a heart condition, unless very minor in nature, would rule you out, but who knows?
If being a FJ pilot is what you want, try for it. But don't forget to take on board some of the good advice in the thread.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Apply and see how you get on. What do you have to lose? Sadly, I'm pretty sure that a heart condition, unless very minor in nature, would rule you out, but who knows?
If being a FJ pilot is what you want, try for it. But don't forget to take on board some of the good advice in the thread.
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Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Apply and see how you get on. What do you have to lose? Sadly, I'm pretty sure that a heart condition, unless very minor in nature, would rule you out, but who knows.
Absolutly correct, thank you.
Absolutly correct, thank you.
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Danny, the only way you are going to get the absolutely authoritative answer is by going to the medical at OASC. In the opinion of a lot of people here who know a lot about military aviation - prepare yourself for a disappointment but go and find out anyway. You are not going to get an authoritative 'yes you're fine' from this forum.
Asking questions on this forum is also fine, with the following provisos: do a bit of homework yourself first, listen to the answers and don't bite the hand that feeds you if those answers don't match your own opinions.
Having a fixed wing preference is OK, too. You may however, like I had until the end of IOT, have a fixed wing preference because you do not know anything much about RW ops. Do not discount it in ignorance. If having learnt about RW, you still have a fixed wing preference, find a better, more diplomatic, way of communicating that at your interview. You have already seen the reaction you will get from RAF Officers if you simply say 'I want to be an RAF pilot but I don't want to be a rotary pilot'.
Remember above all else that getting into the RAF as aircrew is now, more than ever, a buyers' market and you are trying to sell yourself. At this point in time there are better deals out there than you. You need to address that fact, primarily by improving your knowledge and attitude.
Read Highcirrus' magnificent post, (the very epitome of officer chappism) and other posts again. At the moment the first impression you give out will get you chopped before you get to OASC - but, you can change that. With a bit of personal development you may make the grade, but you certainly won't by arguing against people who tell you the facts. Work on it buddy.
Asking questions on this forum is also fine, with the following provisos: do a bit of homework yourself first, listen to the answers and don't bite the hand that feeds you if those answers don't match your own opinions.
Having a fixed wing preference is OK, too. You may however, like I had until the end of IOT, have a fixed wing preference because you do not know anything much about RW ops. Do not discount it in ignorance. If having learnt about RW, you still have a fixed wing preference, find a better, more diplomatic, way of communicating that at your interview. You have already seen the reaction you will get from RAF Officers if you simply say 'I want to be an RAF pilot but I don't want to be a rotary pilot'.
Remember above all else that getting into the RAF as aircrew is now, more than ever, a buyers' market and you are trying to sell yourself. At this point in time there are better deals out there than you. You need to address that fact, primarily by improving your knowledge and attitude.
Read Highcirrus' magnificent post, (the very epitome of officer chappism) and other posts again. At the moment the first impression you give out will get you chopped before you get to OASC - but, you can change that. With a bit of personal development you may make the grade, but you certainly won't by arguing against people who tell you the facts. Work on it buddy.
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Danny,
As much as I would like to offer some precious advice, I'm afraid I can not, as I consider you to be the most annoying person on the planet. I understand that this is an ambition of yours, and that any criticism is hard to take, but these are the hard facts of life which you must consider.
I myself wanted to be an RAF Pilot, and spent all of my teenage years trying to attain this goal by joining the ATC and University Air Squadrons, gaining flying scholarships and even going through the RAF medical process. Yet in my second year on the UAS i was declared PMU due to a possible migrane when i was 7 years old. I even got the consultant from that time to write to the President of the Medical Board to state that it was in fact not migrane, but unfortunately, the RAF decided that the fact that it was possible at the time meant that i was unfit Aircrew and Aircraft Controlling duties. I can't be sure whether the same will happen to you, but chances are it will, as I was declared PMU off a possibility, not an atual problem like yours.
All I can advice is to make any decisions regarding University etc with an open mind. All my choices were made with pilot in mind, and now i'm having to do extra A levels whilst completing my degree, in order for me to go back to uni when i have finished to train for a job that i will also enjoy.
I hope to god that you take any advice given, and learn from others experiences.
As much as I would like to offer some precious advice, I'm afraid I can not, as I consider you to be the most annoying person on the planet. I understand that this is an ambition of yours, and that any criticism is hard to take, but these are the hard facts of life which you must consider.
I myself wanted to be an RAF Pilot, and spent all of my teenage years trying to attain this goal by joining the ATC and University Air Squadrons, gaining flying scholarships and even going through the RAF medical process. Yet in my second year on the UAS i was declared PMU due to a possible migrane when i was 7 years old. I even got the consultant from that time to write to the President of the Medical Board to state that it was in fact not migrane, but unfortunately, the RAF decided that the fact that it was possible at the time meant that i was unfit Aircrew and Aircraft Controlling duties. I can't be sure whether the same will happen to you, but chances are it will, as I was declared PMU off a possibility, not an atual problem like yours.
All I can advice is to make any decisions regarding University etc with an open mind. All my choices were made with pilot in mind, and now i'm having to do extra A levels whilst completing my degree, in order for me to go back to uni when i have finished to train for a job that i will also enjoy.
I hope to god that you take any advice given, and learn from others experiences.
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p.s THELONELYCAS is quite right, everyone is assumed to go fast jet at first. I knew someone who failed RAF medical because he was too tall to fit in a FJ aircraft, though he could fit into rotary. It is only the RN who do not assume applicants to go fast jet.
What was/is your condition?
Basically, if its anything more than a completely benign murmur (MVP, that kind of thing) then you can try but I would also start to think about other options...
Basically, if its anything more than a completely benign murmur (MVP, that kind of thing) then you can try but I would also start to think about other options...
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Danny
Stating a preference for FJ is fine but as already advised, don’t let the opportunity to fly RW or multi pass you by. You don’t generally get the opportunity to show real character or even win medals whilst serving your country and fries under the golden arches, which is where you are likely to end up with your attitude.
I have over 2500 hours in rotary in multiple aircraft types including US Seahawk/Blackhawk aircraft whilst on exchange and having met and worked with a fair few FJ pilots in my time, they are the ones who are rushing to get out due to the boredom of flying circles at 30000ft while the RW get to have fun at low level in demanding situations and conditions and with the camaraderie of a crew to (delete as reqd) talk/banter to/back you up/offer advice/save your ass.
I am an RN Observer (for someone who obviously doesn’t do much research, you may need to look it up) who wanted to be a pilot but was offered to opportunity to become something else. Not because I wasn’t good enough but because of the needs of the service. Although initially disappointed, looking back on 16 years of service I don’t regret my decision for a moment.
Life’s an adventure and the military can be pretty adventurous if you fit in. Having spent 5 years during my career teaching aircrew, I can honestly say that with your current attitude, you can be as gifted as you like (and by your own admission you obviously are!) but you will find flying training extremely demanding and you will require help at some point. Unfortunately you may find help from students and instructors alike a little lacking if you continue wearing your current shoulder attachments. I would rather train 10 mediocre aircrew who are willing to learn, develop and take advice than one who is so far up his own a*&
that he can see daylight when he open his mouth. Inappropriate overconfidence and arrogance will get you killed especially when traveling at 450 Kts. Still if you do get past OASC and make it to flight training, I’m sure the instructors will prove me wrong and see your character traits as a virtue and see how we must have been getting it wrong all these years!
If you can get past the medical barriers, I truly do wish you well; you are going to need it!
Stating a preference for FJ is fine but as already advised, don’t let the opportunity to fly RW or multi pass you by. You don’t generally get the opportunity to show real character or even win medals whilst serving your country and fries under the golden arches, which is where you are likely to end up with your attitude.
I have over 2500 hours in rotary in multiple aircraft types including US Seahawk/Blackhawk aircraft whilst on exchange and having met and worked with a fair few FJ pilots in my time, they are the ones who are rushing to get out due to the boredom of flying circles at 30000ft while the RW get to have fun at low level in demanding situations and conditions and with the camaraderie of a crew to (delete as reqd) talk/banter to/back you up/offer advice/save your ass.
I am an RN Observer (for someone who obviously doesn’t do much research, you may need to look it up) who wanted to be a pilot but was offered to opportunity to become something else. Not because I wasn’t good enough but because of the needs of the service. Although initially disappointed, looking back on 16 years of service I don’t regret my decision for a moment.
Life’s an adventure and the military can be pretty adventurous if you fit in. Having spent 5 years during my career teaching aircrew, I can honestly say that with your current attitude, you can be as gifted as you like (and by your own admission you obviously are!) but you will find flying training extremely demanding and you will require help at some point. Unfortunately you may find help from students and instructors alike a little lacking if you continue wearing your current shoulder attachments. I would rather train 10 mediocre aircrew who are willing to learn, develop and take advice than one who is so far up his own a*&
that he can see daylight when he open his mouth. Inappropriate overconfidence and arrogance will get you killed especially when traveling at 450 Kts. Still if you do get past OASC and make it to flight training, I’m sure the instructors will prove me wrong and see your character traits as a virtue and see how we must have been getting it wrong all these years!If you can get past the medical barriers, I truly do wish you well; you are going to need it!
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Originally Posted by Danny_manchester
I know a place in the RAF is not based on academia, thats pretty evident, and i do not believe that i am somehow entitled to a place in the RAF, but i wouldn't say that i should be lucky to get a sniff in at the RAF, as the RAF need people who are strong academics, allbeit coupled with a pilots attributes.
Originally Posted by Danny_manchester
English isn't my particular strong point, however physics math and chemistry are!
a degree in Aero Eng? lol, no offence to Aero Eng grads, i was thinking more pure chemistry/physics
.
Anyway, im not here to flame, got better things to do
,
a degree in Aero Eng? lol, no offence to Aero Eng grads, i was thinking more pure chemistry/physics
.Anyway, im not here to flame, got better things to do
,And I may be prejudging a bit but I'm not going to even comment on the medical issue as I'd be amazed if you got past the interview and I'd be even more surprised if you made far enough that I saw you on a frontline Sqn.
But hey you may prove me wrong, or go straight for the airlines, which I think would be a better option, either way,
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On this couple of lines
Just remind us what degree you have actually achieved Danny.
Originally Posted by Danny_manchester
English isn't my particular strong point, however physics math and chemistry are!
a degree in Aero Eng? lol, no offence to Aero Eng grads, i was thinking more pure chemistry/physics.
Anyway, im not here to flame, got better things to do,
a degree in Aero Eng? lol, no offence to Aero Eng grads, i was thinking more pure chemistry/physics
.Anyway, im not here to flame, got better things to do
,
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Danny,
I cannot believe you!
Despite having words of wisdom and value given to you by people on this forum who have a great deal of military flying experience and who are well respected here, you continue to be an arrogant, maladjusted little schoolboy.
Please just go away and leave this forum to professional aircrew, clearly you are not worthy of any advice given to you.
TSM
I cannot believe you!
Despite having words of wisdom and value given to you by people on this forum who have a great deal of military flying experience and who are well respected here, you continue to be an arrogant, maladjusted little schoolboy.
Please just go away and leave this forum to professional aircrew, clearly you are not worthy of any advice given to you.
TSM