Military coup to over throw UK Government
) Mountbottom.....
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Rather a sense of deja vu watching the footage of the security exercise at Heathrow. Mind you, the troops and light armour in the archive film do of course represent the full strength of the modern armed forces.
Sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot
Sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot
Perhaps that's why Teflon Tone is keen on keeping most of the Armed Forces in other peoples countries for the foreseeable future..................
.........................Just a thought!!!!!!!
.........................Just a thought!!!!!!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The other character was General Sir Walter Walker, DSACEUR rtd, who wanted to set up a home defence corps.
The period was 1974 and there were cartoons of the day about this. Generally there was a hot bed of rumour.
There was also I recall a threatise on Coup d'etate. The main feature was a centralised system of power in the hands of a very few people. It was argued that the UK did not come within that criteria.
There was also a TV programme, something like the Government Inspector. One scene was a file of 'civil servants' coated, bowler hatted, briefcased, all deplaning from a Beverley at Carnaby or some such deserted airfield, all marching in step, snow on their boots. Get the drift?
Dennis was certainly a card carrying member of the Labour party. Dennis did his business as MOD in the 1st adminstration from 1964. He was Chancellor the the 2nd. I was flying Frank Judd, Navy Minister, one of Wilson's ministers the day Wilson resigned. It was obvious from the shock that he had no clue that Wilson was to go.
The period was 1974 and there were cartoons of the day about this. Generally there was a hot bed of rumour.
There was also I recall a threatise on Coup d'etate. The main feature was a centralised system of power in the hands of a very few people. It was argued that the UK did not come within that criteria.
There was also a TV programme, something like the Government Inspector. One scene was a file of 'civil servants' coated, bowler hatted, briefcased, all deplaning from a Beverley at Carnaby or some such deserted airfield, all marching in step, snow on their boots. Get the drift?
Dennis was certainly a card carrying member of the Labour party. Dennis did his business as MOD in the 1st adminstration from 1964. He was Chancellor the the 2nd. I was flying Frank Judd, Navy Minister, one of Wilson's ministers the day Wilson resigned. It was obvious from the shock that he had no clue that Wilson was to go.
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Having watched the programme I'm more convinced than ever that Wilson was under the infuence or control of another country. (Nothing changed much with the current incumbent - The wannabee emperor of europe.) The way everything fell into to place for his leadership of the party and then the election, just too many coincidences.
I wasn't sure about the so called plot but the programme certainly gave plenty of credence to the desireability of one!
Why take Britain out of NATO as head of government of one of the senior partners what a great spot to keep the WarPact upto date?
Be lucky
David
I wasn't sure about the so called plot but the programme certainly gave plenty of credence to the desireability of one!
Originally Posted by JessTheDog
I really doubt that Harold Wilson was a Soviet agent. If he was, he must have been a fairly cr@p one - we kept our nuclear deterrent, stayed in NATO etc....
Be lucky
David
Wasn't Wilson somewhere around in 1946 when they had that cute idea of selling RR Nenes to our glorious ally Uncle Joe?
Anyway... it would have been only a case of Uncle Dickie doing to British democracy what he'd already done to everyone who worked on TSR.2 and a battleship-complement's-worth of nubile midshipmen...
Anyway... it would have been only a case of Uncle Dickie doing to British democracy what he'd already done to everyone who worked on TSR.2 and a battleship-complement's-worth of nubile midshipmen...
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Military coup?
The Military top brass can't run the military properly, let alone the country as well!
Don't forget that their Lordships seem to be 'politicians' too - so who is to say they would be any better than the current spineless shysters?
The Military top brass can't run the military properly, let alone the country as well!
Don't forget that their Lordships seem to be 'politicians' too - so who is to say they would be any better than the current spineless shysters?
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I am really puzzled as to how Wilson could have been a Soviet agent. The idea of a spy occupying No 10, doing nothing of significant benefit on behalf of his paymasters and then resigning is simply not credible.
This would not be a matter of a Whitehall clerk passing on copies of protectively-marked documents - Wilson was the leader of a sovereign nation in a crucial relationship with the United States! He would have been prompted to take at least one decision of material strategic value to the Soviet Union before he went, and if he failed to toe the line he would have been exposed - causing great damage to the UK's political system.
It doesn't seem credible , comrades (oops).
This would not be a matter of a Whitehall clerk passing on copies of protectively-marked documents - Wilson was the leader of a sovereign nation in a crucial relationship with the United States! He would have been prompted to take at least one decision of material strategic value to the Soviet Union before he went, and if he failed to toe the line he would have been exposed - causing great damage to the UK's political system.
It doesn't seem credible , comrades (oops).
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At the time, all the talk in the press was of a possible left wing take over. Reds under, in, over and watching the bed were the nursery monsters. The interesting thing was that in the pubs of Pirbright etc., there was a lot of scuttlebutt the other way. About two years after Wison went, I remember also a dinner party with a fairly "staff" type saying that a right-wing coup had been very much more likely, no details of course. We just sat with our mouths open.
Scuttlebutt is just that but it is surprising how often it has the kernel of truth.
Scuttlebutt is just that but it is surprising how often it has the kernel of truth.
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Originally Posted by JessTheDog
I am really puzzled as to how Wilson could have been a Soviet agent. The idea of a spy occupying No 10, doing nothing of significant benefit on behalf of his paymasters and then resigning is simply not credible.
Be lucky
David
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Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur
Try TSR-2. P1154, HS 681 and the demoralisation near destruction of UK advanced aircraft industry for a start. Set us back until Tornado in reallity. A really effectiveagent of influence doesn't need to be overt. Being overt gets you caught. Just nudges of policy. But as a leader of a NATO country what information he had to disclose.
Be lucky
David
Be lucky
David
Nixor ut Ledo
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I see a lot of posts on this thread which rubbish the idea of a military coup. I suspect that the posters are relative youngsters who think today's thoughts. Believe me (and others who have posted in the same vein) there was some serious intent out there at the time (and probably the means and organisation to carry it out).
Many Moons ago - circa late 1970's - I had some long conversations with a relative who had been top Army intelligence brass in Germany. He had an intriguing nugget of gossip that Wilson had been paid £250,000 by the Chinese to resign. The curious bit was that apparently the money was routed theough the Czech Embassy in London. No explanation was given for the payment by my relative. Some years later the same story appeared in the Peter Simple Column in the Daily Telegraph. Odd?
I don't know what to make of the TV programme. Wilson was not a double twister but a triple twister.
I also heard that Wilson, along with Heath, was in the Communist party at Oxford or Cambridge. Anyone like to comment?
Whatever history may reveal about these 'politicians' their legacy seems to be that they have allowed Britain (I won't say 'Ukay') to be run by external forces.
The same continues today. I blame a political class emanating from Oxbridge that follows a political culture whereby you profess one policy and enact another - usually the opposite. We now have to deal with a country where the national culture has been traduced and power lies elsewhere.
Why?
I don't know what to make of the TV programme. Wilson was not a double twister but a triple twister.
I also heard that Wilson, along with Heath, was in the Communist party at Oxford or Cambridge. Anyone like to comment?
Whatever history may reveal about these 'politicians' their legacy seems to be that they have allowed Britain (I won't say 'Ukay') to be run by external forces.
The same continues today. I blame a political class emanating from Oxbridge that follows a political culture whereby you profess one policy and enact another - usually the opposite. We now have to deal with a country where the national culture has been traduced and power lies elsewhere.
Why?
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Originally Posted by allan907
I see a lot of posts on this thread which rubbish the idea of a military coup. I suspect that the posters are relative youngsters who think today's thoughts. Believe me (and others who have posted in the same vein) there was some serious intent out there at the time (and probably the means and organisation to carry it out).
I was there as a young sprog, it was a different time, sentiment was running very high and, we, as an armed service were still to realise that Empire was over yet were still able, ready and familiar with the type of action needed to effect such a plot in the name of Q & E.
Perhaps Mountbattens wisdom was in putting the frighteners on Wilson in such a manner that he achieved regime change without a coup. When Wilson folded there wasn't anyone left in the Labour party of the late 70's that could muster much resistance against the following Conservative landslide.
History and the BBC will tell it the way they want rather than how it was!
To borrow an earlier maxim: If you remember the seventies you probably weren't there!
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I am really puzzled as to how Wilson could have been a Soviet agent. The idea of a spy occupying No 10, doing nothing of significant benefit on behalf of his paymasters and then resigning is simply not credible.
I can think of no better conditions to forment the birth of Communism - an emasculated middle class, no longer financially independent due to punitive taxation, mass control of Industry, and an economy in the toilet. Then - BINGO - along come our 'saviours' - the USSR.
If you're goint to invade a country, you want to soften up the defences first, don't you? Think about it. Sounds perfectly credible to me.
The main feature was a centralised system of power in the hands of a very few people. It was argued that the UK did not come within that criteria.
16B
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Originally Posted by LowObservable
Wasn't Wilson somewhere around in 1946 when they had that cute idea of selling RR Nenes to our glorious ally Uncle Joe?
Sept 46 sold to USSR 10 RR Nenes and 10 RR Derwents:
Mar 47 20 Derwents and 15 Nenes
Total sold 30 Derwent Mk. V at £6050 each and 25 Nene 100s at £7,300 each. Total contract with spares for 12 months £255,175 15s 5d
It is estimated that over 100,000 illegal copies have been produced by USSR and satellites 1974 royalties due to Rolls Royce at approx £74M ( All figures from Project cancelled 2nd edition). Not a bad bit of business for a labour government trying to rebuild the country after the war. Or were they just naive?
Be lucky
David