VGS - Can you Nav?
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Scottyhs wrote:
Evidence that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Only a few of the instructors at Syerston are serving or ex-RAF aircrew. In my day, it was OC ACCGS and the Chief Instructor and a Sqn Ldr from CFS EW. The only way you would have flown with a CGI is if you had a relief instructor from a VGS.
I was once one of those 17yr old G1s to which you refer. Everyone I knew in the same boat took their job very seriously when flying little Billy around the skies. In my experience (and I came throught the system as an FSC along with around 8-10 others on the unit) there was tremendous peer pressure to become recognised as a good stick and , perhaps more importantly, a safe pair of hands. If any of us decided to push things a little too far (normally when solo or when flying mutuals) he would be reined in by the others in pretty short order. Our real arseing around tended to be done on the ground- accordingly non-flying days were pretty popular too.
Now please, be a good little spacey and STFU until you have the first damn clue about the subject on which you are pontificating.
Got a friend whos going to be a staff cdt pilot at a VGS and in asnwer to the question of is your child safe.... sorry to say i would say no!
I my self as a cdt dont like flying in the VGS with staff cdt pilots as the majority i have met (and thats quite a few) are idiots!!
However the CGI's i did my Gliding scholarship with are a different story, (i did do it at ACCGS Though) but the majority were ex service and all very competent!!
The main problem is not with the CGI's i think its with letting 17 year old cadets go become a "pilot" and hen show off when somebody they know turns up at the VGS!
A way to solve this is to implement a system like the pilots at AEF have to go through, that way you know what your getting with the pilots and they should be trained to a high standard!
I my self as a cdt dont like flying in the VGS with staff cdt pilots as the majority i have met (and thats quite a few) are idiots!!
However the CGI's i did my Gliding scholarship with are a different story, (i did do it at ACCGS Though) but the majority were ex service and all very competent!!
The main problem is not with the CGI's i think its with letting 17 year old cadets go become a "pilot" and hen show off when somebody they know turns up at the VGS!
A way to solve this is to implement a system like the pilots at AEF have to go through, that way you know what your getting with the pilots and they should be trained to a high standard!
Only a few of the instructors at Syerston are serving or ex-RAF aircrew. In my day, it was OC ACCGS and the Chief Instructor and a Sqn Ldr from CFS EW. The only way you would have flown with a CGI is if you had a relief instructor from a VGS.
I was once one of those 17yr old G1s to which you refer. Everyone I knew in the same boat took their job very seriously when flying little Billy around the skies. In my experience (and I came throught the system as an FSC along with around 8-10 others on the unit) there was tremendous peer pressure to become recognised as a good stick and , perhaps more importantly, a safe pair of hands. If any of us decided to push things a little too far (normally when solo or when flying mutuals) he would be reined in by the others in pretty short order. Our real arseing around tended to be done on the ground- accordingly non-flying days were pretty popular too.
Now please, be a good little spacey and STFU until you have the first damn clue about the subject on which you are pontificating.
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I have to agree, i've always found that the knowledge and ability of staff on gliding schools i've visited has always been of the highest quality.
As a younger member of the VGS fraternity i'm currently a staff cadet pilot. Although we may appear to be cocky and pretencious on the ground we all take our flying and the safety aspects involved very seriously and would never jepordise the safety of others. By the time staff are qualified to carry student passengers they will normally have acumulated many hours, normally at least equivalent to those required for a ppl(A) bear in mind that a microlight pilot only requires half fixed wing time to gain their ppl.
So if the option was to fly with a new G1 in a vigilant or go up in a microlight i'd choose the viggie anytime.
I'd like to know what replacement the sceptics out there would propose to replace an organisation like the VGS?
I'm happy to admit that it isn't without its fault, but compared to your average flying club its superior. A lot of this is down to the hard work and dedication of its staff, a staff of volunteers who give up alot of their time to help people like me get a real flying start in their lives.
As a younger member of the VGS fraternity i'm currently a staff cadet pilot. Although we may appear to be cocky and pretencious on the ground we all take our flying and the safety aspects involved very seriously and would never jepordise the safety of others. By the time staff are qualified to carry student passengers they will normally have acumulated many hours, normally at least equivalent to those required for a ppl(A) bear in mind that a microlight pilot only requires half fixed wing time to gain their ppl.
So if the option was to fly with a new G1 in a vigilant or go up in a microlight i'd choose the viggie anytime.
I'd like to know what replacement the sceptics out there would propose to replace an organisation like the VGS?
I'm happy to admit that it isn't without its fault, but compared to your average flying club its superior. A lot of this is down to the hard work and dedication of its staff, a staff of volunteers who give up alot of their time to help people like me get a real flying start in their lives.
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This thread is not, was not intended as a slur to the whole movement and i have reiterated that enough.
This thread was my asking 5 questions about an incident that was meant to have been reported through DASC via CONDOR.
Apparently it has "been dealt with".
To my knowledge, thanks to learned aquaintances down south, NOTHING has changed in regard to maps and their use.
As it happens lots of other points have been coming out the woodwork in other threads as well as this one.
Maybe an external view of incidents is now called for.
I mean, what exactly was a "cadet" learning from a premeditated photo shoot.
From what i recall, formation flying was not part of a cadets syllabus?
It wasn't in my IGT, or BGT, or AGT, Or G2, Or G1, Or C Cat, Or B cat. Or ... nah (that would facilitate a witch hunt that is well underway!)
That is of course is previous comments are accurate as to the lucky escape 2 crews have had.
Someone somewhere must have looked at this and been quite upset. It has upset me that things are this low ebb.
Someone must have seen all this "smoke"........
I wonder if anyone will go try and find the fire? I sincerely doubt it.
This thread was my asking 5 questions about an incident that was meant to have been reported through DASC via CONDOR.
Apparently it has "been dealt with".
To my knowledge, thanks to learned aquaintances down south, NOTHING has changed in regard to maps and their use.
As it happens lots of other points have been coming out the woodwork in other threads as well as this one.
Maybe an external view of incidents is now called for.
I mean, what exactly was a "cadet" learning from a premeditated photo shoot.
From what i recall, formation flying was not part of a cadets syllabus?
It wasn't in my IGT, or BGT, or AGT, Or G2, Or G1, Or C Cat, Or B cat. Or ... nah (that would facilitate a witch hunt that is well underway!)
That is of course is previous comments are accurate as to the lucky escape 2 crews have had.
Someone somewhere must have looked at this and been quite upset. It has upset me that things are this low ebb.
Someone must have seen all this "smoke"........
I wonder if anyone will go try and find the fire? I sincerely doubt it.
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First of all I have registerd just for this Thread. I'm absolutely disgusted with Chandelle-eur and the way he is conducting himself on this Forum.
From my experiences on a VGS which I may add is a lot they are an extremely professional organisation on the whole. Im not saying there are some problems but they need to be ironed out by the appropriate people.
Chandelle-eur - I think you need to put this one away and I thuink this thread should be locked to prevent any further damaging of the VGS's reputation.
Thankyou,
Background.
From my experiences on a VGS which I may add is a lot they are an extremely professional organisation on the whole. Im not saying there are some problems but they need to be ironed out by the appropriate people.
Chandelle-eur - I think you need to put this one away and I thuink this thread should be locked to prevent any further damaging of the VGS's reputation.
Thankyou,
Background.
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Chandelle,
In your last post even you ascert that the incident you allude to has been 'dealt with' and therefore I would ask you what else you wish to achieve by continuing this thread?
If it has been dealt with then whatever has been changed will have to 'bed in' and then be reassessed at a suitable time in the future.
This would seem to be a reasonable solution so is it not possible for you to 'permit' this to happpen without further undermining?
What more do you wish to achieve?
IMHO it would seem that the unit in question ought to be assessed over a period of time and where necesary suitable further steps could be taken as the need arises.
Regards
HEDP
In your last post even you ascert that the incident you allude to has been 'dealt with' and therefore I would ask you what else you wish to achieve by continuing this thread?
If it has been dealt with then whatever has been changed will have to 'bed in' and then be reassessed at a suitable time in the future.
This would seem to be a reasonable solution so is it not possible for you to 'permit' this to happpen without further undermining?
What more do you wish to achieve?
IMHO it would seem that the unit in question ought to be assessed over a period of time and where necesary suitable further steps could be taken as the need arises.
Regards
HEDP
I agree with Background. I spent 25 years with an Air Cadet Gliding School (OK I now see that they are Squadrons!) but they were 25 years of hard work, good flying discipline and above all constant awareness of the safety of the cadets that were flown.
Chandelle-eur it seems that you have your own agenda - please do not use Pprune to push it.
Get a life - and fly safely.
Remember you pass this way but once - it is not a "practice run".
Frelon
Chandelle-eur it seems that you have your own agenda - please do not use Pprune to push it.
Get a life - and fly safely.
Remember you pass this way but once - it is not a "practice run".
Frelon
ATPL Trainee:
Last I heard (but it may have changed) you needed 10hrs P1 to carry out Air exp in a Vigilant and 25 hrs P1 to carry passengers on a PPL A (M). Course it's the continuity that's different; as has been mentioned you get periodic checks in a Viggie; a PPL A (M) stilll only has to do 5 in 13.
Last I heard (but it may have changed) you needed 10hrs P1 to carry out Air exp in a Vigilant and 25 hrs P1 to carry passengers on a PPL A (M). Course it's the continuity that's different; as has been mentioned you get periodic checks in a Viggie; a PPL A (M) stilll only has to do 5 in 13.
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My agenda is flight safety.
Perhaps taking a look a previously posted views on other (now locked) threads will enlighten you all.
What happens when the procedures in place break down?
Ever wondered what makes people do certain things?
I wish i lived in the rose tinted world that some people do, especially those with no idea how VGS's operate.
Lock this thread please, the uneducated and mis-spelling types are driving me mad.
Take the bigger picture and stare at it hard... real hard.
I just hope i don't ever get the chance to say "told you so".
cheerio...... Have a nice Xmas.
Perhaps taking a look a previously posted views on other (now locked) threads will enlighten you all.
What happens when the procedures in place break down?
Ever wondered what makes people do certain things?
I wish i lived in the rose tinted world that some people do, especially those with no idea how VGS's operate.
Lock this thread please, the uneducated and mis-spelling types are driving me mad.
Take the bigger picture and stare at it hard... real hard.
I just hope i don't ever get the chance to say "told you so".
cheerio...... Have a nice Xmas.
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I must say old chap I get the impression you must be an insufferable CRM nightmare in the cockpit! Slightly overbearing and a tad put out when others dont necesarily agree with you. Teddy in the corner....................
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Scotty,
You obviously don't understand a VGS structure.
CGI- Civilian Gliding Instructor.
CGI's aren't normally Execs these positions are filled by VRT officers, so it will be very seldom that a CGI would make a decision like this unless they are a B-Cat and are the DI that day. Even then a Exec would normally step in.
Please don't post about what you don't know about, as you are a Cadet on a AEF, which is a completely different setup.
Just like to say Merry Xmas to other VGS'rs out there and lets have a great years flying next year to pu all the sceptics in place
Cheers!
You obviously don't understand a VGS structure.
CGI- Civilian Gliding Instructor.
CGI's aren't normally Execs these positions are filled by VRT officers, so it will be very seldom that a CGI would make a decision like this unless they are a B-Cat and are the DI that day. Even then a Exec would normally step in.
Please don't post about what you don't know about, as you are a Cadet on a AEF, which is a completely different setup.
Just like to say Merry Xmas to other VGS'rs out there and lets have a great years flying next year to pu all the sceptics in place
Cheers!
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Scotty,
I only quit the game a couple of years ago. Do you think I don't still talk to the guys that are still there?
IMHO you are talking out of your hoop. Not even ACCGS perform aeros in the Viggie- it's a Viking only thing. The only thing I can think of that might mitigate the BS you are uttering is a circumstance whereby the FSC in question was bigging himself up over a shandy or two in front of a bunch of impressionable numpties, such as yourself.
Once again, keep your mouth shut and your ears open until you're qualified to speak on the subject. For the record, the BGT/GS stude that has just earned that silly little badge and wasn't selected for instructor training were considered to be the most insufferable little strokers in the Corps by the ones who did.
I only quit the game a couple of years ago. Do you think I don't still talk to the guys that are still there?
IMHO you are talking out of your hoop. Not even ACCGS perform aeros in the Viggie- it's a Viking only thing. The only thing I can think of that might mitigate the BS you are uttering is a circumstance whereby the FSC in question was bigging himself up over a shandy or two in front of a bunch of impressionable numpties, such as yourself.
Once again, keep your mouth shut and your ears open until you're qualified to speak on the subject. For the record, the BGT/GS stude that has just earned that silly little badge and wasn't selected for instructor training were considered to be the most insufferable little strokers in the Corps by the ones who did.
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And what has Linton VGS got to do with anything? They only know the same as anybody else in the VGS world!
Think your getting some wild and duff information here and trying turn a rumour into a fact. As i;ve said before let the appropriate people deal with incidents, they don't need a know it all cadet getting involved!
Think your getting some wild and duff information here and trying turn a rumour into a fact. As i;ve said before let the appropriate people deal with incidents, they don't need a know it all cadet getting involved!
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Aeros in a vig?!
Scottyhs,
Wow, what sort of vigilant was this?! I want one 
A cadet who i know became a g1 on viggies, did a while on there one day got bored and went and did a few aeros in his viggie whilst solo (breaking the rules)
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I'm sorry, but 5 days at Syerston and the ability to strap someone into a Tutor does not make you an expert. So please, one more time- shut up, you child. You could drop the entire system in the sh1t with such blatant nonsense.
(Edit) I give you the same amount of respect I give anyone else who tries to pontificate on a subject about which they know approximately 4/5 of Sweet FA. Now go away and give yourself a good talking to.
(Edit) I give you the same amount of respect I give anyone else who tries to pontificate on a subject about which they know approximately 4/5 of Sweet FA. Now go away and give yourself a good talking to.