Toothless Poodle

[jstars2]

Before his recent spectacular gunshot suicide in February 2005, iconic American writer and novelist Hunter S. Thompson (best known for his Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas) had this to say about a couple of our favourite people:

- "I never thought that I would ever see a president worse than Richard Nixon, but George W. Bush is the worst president in American history, because he is the dumbest, and because he has destroyed in four years what it took two centuries to build up. He has taken this country from a prosperous nation at peace to a dead-broke nation at war. We are losing this stupid, fraudulent war in Iraq and every nation in the world despises us, except for a handful of corrupt Brits, like that simpering little whore Tony Blair."

I understand that the epithet directed towards our “Tone” related, amongst many other things, to his breathtakingly quick switch from being “Slick Willie” Clinton’s bestest buddy to that of ideologically opposite George “Dubya” Bush’s soul mate and prayer partner.

[Anotherpost75]

Is this the guy you mean?

[Wyler]

Lets make all Civil Servants eligible for Military Service in times of crisis. Then stand back and watch Government policy go into rapid reverse.

[Maple 01]

Oi, I've just become a Sivil Serpant - I did 22 years in the mob - you sir, can get stuffed - I'm not doing any more!

PS The more TB riles BEags the more I think he's doing something right

[BEagle]

A mere 22 years?

'Simpering little whore'. Has a certain ring to it, that does!

[Maple 01]

Whose ring?

Think on BEags - four more years!

I ask the members of the jury, is THIS the real BEagle?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/fastshow...y_birkin.shtml

[BEagle]

maple 01, you can take the pi$$ out of me as much as you want, I really don't care. Behave like a troll if you wish - it's entirely your choice.

But I do care about the wholly unrealistic mutterings made by a so-called leader who obviously does not understand the need for available assets to match - or preferably exceed - the requirements he intends to place upon them.

[Maple 01]

BEags, and I thought you could handle ‘banter’! Remember, not everyone that disagrees with your world view or considers your 'Grumpy old man' on-line persona worthy of gentle lampooning is necessarily a troll - though I obviously have offended which was not my intention – but an inability to stand-back and laugh at yourself? How far would that have got you in the crewroom?

Your every utterance on this forum of late amply illustrates your political persuasion and disgust, to the point that you come across as being so blinded by hate of Labour that you refuse to consider that on occasion you may be wrong. This is fine up to a point but after a while it becomes a little tiresome IMO.

There aren’t the resources to do everything, and I don’t remember HM opposition spending lavishly while they were running the show. Remember John Nott - remember the Falklands debacle? Frontline First? Options for Change? Cold War dividend? Every shade of politician has expected the Armed Forces to do more with less and been bloody ungrateful for our efforts – you’d do well to remember that New Labour was not set up just to annoy you, they are just following in the grand traditions of previous administrations by spending money on populist causes - and that ain't us

[WE Branch Fanatic]

BEagle said...

I'm struggling to think of one single thing which Bliar and his gang have achieved which has improved my quality of life in the past 10 years. But I can think of several ways in which he's lessened it.

Have to say I feel the same.

Maple what is your response? what good things has Tony done for you?

[Maple 01]

I'm better off (pay making a stab at keeping pace with inflation)
Low mortgage rates (Paid 15% under you-know-who)
Stable economy (end of Tory 'boom and bust')
Better educated (education grants)
Have the option to go back to do a MA (ELC)
I can afford to send my daughter to nursery school (Nursery grant)
Improved NHS funding - means I don't wait quite so long for appointments and the old Nissen Huts have been replaced by a new hospital

My mother (83) gets
Winter Fuel allowance
Increased attendance allowance
Guaranteed income

That's just a few off the top of my head



'Yes, I'll grant you, education, welfare and financial stability, but apart from that, what have they done for us?'

[16 blades]

I'm better off (pay making a stab at keeping pace with inflation)
And you'd be even better off without massive Labour tax rises.
Low mortgage rates (Paid 15% under you-know-who)
Interest rates are nothing to do with the govt - they are set by the Bank of England. The 15% was necessary at the time to bring inflation under control - this govt simply fiddles the figures when it sees something it doesn't like.
Stable economy (end of Tory 'boom and bust')
...built on the stable economic conditions inherited as a DIRECT RESULT of Tory policy...now built almost solely on vast sums of borrowed money and released equity. Labour has presided over an explosion in personal debt - the 'bust' that will follow this boom will make black wednesday look like a walk in the park.
Better educated (education grants)
Pity the same cannot be said for the rest of the country, or the poor sods who will build up massive debts in future in order to be 'educated'. This govt has utterly destroyed any pretence of standards in education in the name of 'equality'
Have the option to go back to do a MA (ELC)
...which will now cost a bloody fortune because of top-up fees, that is if you are not deemed to 'middle class' or intelligent by the admissions stasi to be allowed to study in the first place.
I can afford to send my daughter to nursery school (Nursery grant)
...so the govt can start indoctrinating them early, instead of being at home bonding with their parents being taught what YOU want to teach them - the last thing this social-engineering junta wants.
Improved NHS funding - means I don't wait quite so long for appointments and the old Nissen Huts have been replaced by a new hospital
Shame all this improved funding hasn't actually produced any meaninful improved results, being used instead to hire armies of beaurocrats and 'five-a-day co-ordinators', and 'new' hospitals are just as filthy as the old ones - believe me. Oh yes, and they're built on borrowed money as well.
My mother (83) gets
Winter Fuel allowance
Increased attendance allowance
Guaranteed income
Pity about the MASSIVE increases in council tax she and others like her now have to pay thanks to this thieving, meddling, wealth-distributing, union-baron driven excuse for a govt. You cannot seriously tell me she is better off because of them?

Get real, Maple!

16B

[BEagle]

You beat me to it, 16B - I was going to reply in the same vein last night, but ran out of enthusiasm!

But very well put.

'Better educated' indeed. The dumbing down of secondary education in worthwhile subjects and the increase in tertiary education to provide 'equality of oportunity' has led to a credit card debt culture amongst students whilst they take their 'media studies' or 'Klingon' Mickey Mouse degrees at some Brave Noo University which some years ago was a basic Polytechnic.

[Maple 01]

Well, what can I say? Some folk just refuse to see any good. Still, several inaccuracies in your response 16 Blades, won't bore the other forum members with going through the list but just to cover three

I mentioned Nursery school allowance

...so the govt can start indoctrinating them early, instead of being at home bonding with their parents being taught what YOU want to teach them - the last thing this social-engineering junta wants.

Emmmm, it's attached to an independent grammar school - shouldn’t get too much political indoctrination there! And I'd check-fire on the other stuff unless you actually know me!

Stable economy

...built on the stable economic conditions inherited as a DIRECT RESULT of Tory policy...now built almost solely on vast sums of borrowed money and released equity. Labour has presided over an explosion in personal debt - the 'bust' that will follow this boom will make black Wednesday look like a walk in the park.

The old 'if it's good, thank the Tories, if its bad blame Labour defence. Personal debt has expanded over the first world under administrations of both the left and right

Low mortgage rates

...Interest rates are nothing to do with the govt

...

They were at the time when the Conservatives gave us 15% rates trying to hang in to the ERM, Labour took the view that interest rates shouldn't be used as part of political armoury - oh look, another benefit!

[uknasa]

"Interest rates are nothing to do with the govt - they are set by the Bank of England. The 15% was necessary at the time to bring inflation under control - this govt simply fiddles the figures when it sees something it doesn't like."

Mmmmm 16B and which Govt was it that enabled the BoE to have such autonomy?

[Bluntend]

Right. Since my Granny popped her clogs a few years back and since I don't have any kids (as far as this forum is concerned) I don't really care that much about winter fuel allowances or Nursery School grants.
What I do care about is the irreparable damage this current government has done to our Armed Forces and their reputation world wide. Agressive civilainisation, 'Lean' and other similar methodologies have stripped our capability to operate with any kind of credible war fighting ability let alone respond to any domestic emergency - e.g. Fire Brigade Strike, Foot and Mouth outbreak, terrorist attack?. Our troops at home are under such pressure to deliver that Flight Safety is being stretched to near breaking point and our troops overseas lack the top-level support to the point that some find themselves stranded in theatre without the basic equipment they need to do their job safely or the logistic capability to bring them home. 'Morale' and 'Flexibility' are virtual swearwords these days and since the recent round of redundancies specifically targetted the expensive, yet highly experienced elements of our technical trades, a huge hole in technical expertise has opened up - short term financial gain overruling common sense (yet again). Many who applied for but didn't get redundancy are now jumping ship, exacerbating the situation further. Very soon we may well find ourselves in a situation where we can't even support our current commitments let alone take on more.

Quite frankly, the sooner Bliar realises that we are no longer a player on the World stage, rather a weakened and demoralised understudy to the US the better. Irrespective of this government's perfomance on the domestic front, their treatment of the UK Armed Forces is nothing short of criminal.

[Maple 01]

Bluntend, I was asked what improvements I had seen under Labour, I listed a few, now either acknowledge that there have been some in the socioeconomic sphere or join those that refuse to see reality - even I can see that Maggie did some good.......the problem is 'guns or butter?' What are most people in the mil going to want v what are the punters after.

Quite frankly, the sooner Bliar realises that we are no longer a player on the World stage, rather a weakened and demoralised understudy to the US the better. Irrespective of this government's performance on the domestic front, their treatment of the UK Armed Forces is nothing short of criminal.

Quite frankly that re-alignment has been due since 1945 and governments ranging across the political spectrum down the years from Attlee,Churchill, Thacher and Blair (to name a few) have all failed to grasp the nettle – you’d have thought Suez might have been a hint -that the UK is at best a second-level power.

The politicians have also ducked the major question - do we want to play 'world power?' In which case it has to be properly paid for, or do we retreat to the shores of Albion? If option 'B' cut all the projects you like, pull out of NATO, the EU defence force and all other agreements that drag us off to various locations and slash the strength of the services, but don't ever expect to have an Armed Force that can do much more than provide aid to the civilian powers in times of emergency. One thing or the other, can’t do both. But then again, both the Conservatives and Labour have tried ‘Power projection on a shoestring’; don’t say it’s exclusive to Mr Blair

[Bluntend]

Since when has making the same mistakes as previous governments ever been a valid excuse? Just because previous governments (Conservative and Labour) have been found guilty of abusing their armed forces that doesn't give Blair and Co the right to do it now. Surely we should expect our government to learn from past mistakes.

[jindabyne]

Bluntend

Agree. IMHO, the best that can be said of Blair wrt our Armed Forces is that he and his Government colleagues are heavily tarred with the same brush that painted the Thatcher and Major defence ministries. Contemptible!

[Maple 01]

The gist of the argument here is that Blair is sinful and wicked hell bent on destroying the country – I remember people saying the same thing about Maggie - I say those holding those extremist points of view are almost hysterical in their ranting, have very short memories of previous government’s actions and are selective in their criticism. Throw into the mix a bit of xenophobia, a virulent anti-American stance that in previous decades was the exclusive preserve of the rabid left, and an unwillingness to give credit where it's due in any governmental field - That's fine if you want to be part of The Monday club or sit on the 1922 committee

So are you saying that mistakes have been made in the past?- and if so you accept that the right has as frequently cocked-up the military/Aviation industry as the left? Or has it been Blair’s fault that “Options for Change”, “Frontline First”, “The Nott Cuts”, The Peace Dividend, 1957 Defence White Paper et-all started the rot? SDI and the review didn't help I'll grant you

If you want to claim that the foundation of the secure economy was laid-down by the Tories (hmmm yeah…15% mortgage, peak inflation 10%, 3 billion pounds thrown away on one day alone trying to play the market…..) You have to accept that the rotten state of defence was also built on their foundations...unless you can think of someone else to blame?

[Data-Lynx]

So what does MOD say for itself? Is the MOD Annual Report & Accounts 2004-05, published on Friday, a spin on the perceived "rotten state of defence" or is it another worthless report from a

Government colleague heavily tarred with the same brush?

Admittedly the report stops in Apr 05 but much of it provides a tote of what was been achieved and what happens when statistics lean heavily on "can do". You could cherrypick such things as the proportion of trained staff deployed or PVR figures in the Resources section. Try marvelling at the interpretation of statistics in the Future Operations section before the headache sets in. The factoid that caught my eye was the differences in:

• Despite the continuing pressure of operations the proportion of Force Elements with no critical weaknesses reported by their military commanders increased from 93% in the last quarter of 2003-04 to 100% in the last quarter of 2004-05;
• The proportion of Force Elements with no critical or serious weaknesses reported by their military commanders remained broadly stable, averaging 68% over the year.

So where is the backbone to many of our contentions that all is not well?