Military Rank of a Civilian Captain
I standby to be corrected but I seem to remember that Inspectors and above in the police are commisioned officers and receive a scroll from HMQ. IIRC an Inspector was deemed to be between Fg Off and Flt Lt Rank and Chief Inspector was Sqn Ldr equivalent. I am sure we were taught at Sleaford Tech that senior police officers should be saluted by more junior military personnel. It may have changed now since the pink and fluffy brigade in the PC Police stopped saluting their own!!
I also remember, as HS58 does that, HM C & E were commisioned and had equivalency but the brain cells cannot remember what the equivalency was!!
With regard to civil serpants, it would come as no surprise, I guess, that the "equivalency" between CS and HM Forces is dictated by the civil serpants. Anyone noticed a bit of grade creep here in recent years?
I also remember, as HS58 does that, HM C & E were commisioned and had equivalency but the brain cells cannot remember what the equivalency was!!
With regard to civil serpants, it would come as no surprise, I guess, that the "equivalency" between CS and HM Forces is dictated by the civil serpants. Anyone noticed a bit of grade creep here in recent years?
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Roland is right. Inspectors and above are commisioned officers. As a plod in the early 80's I (and my colleagues) used to salute them when outdoors.
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I don't know what changed, I've been away from the game for over 20 years.
However, even then it wasn't very common, as inspectors were rarely wandering the streets anyway, and if either of you was dealing with any sort of incident at the time, the salute would be forgotten. It really only happened if a PC happened to meet up with the Inspector while on foot patrol.
However, even then it wasn't very common, as inspectors were rarely wandering the streets anyway, and if either of you was dealing with any sort of incident at the time, the salute would be forgotten. It really only happened if a PC happened to meet up with the Inspector while on foot patrol.
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Going back to the militay equivalences why is the RAF OD level officer designate? The chaps at IOT are Off Cdt or Stdnt Off not Officer Designate. Anyone ever heard of it?
Sorry the mornings bring out my pedantic and spotterish side
Sorry the mornings bring out my pedantic and spotterish side
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IIRC,
An Off Cdt/ Student Off/ Off Des, is not the holder of the Queens Commision until graduation. Therefore even they do not warrant being saluted..
I will stand corrected though....
The Army used to call them Potential Officers i think...
An Off Cdt/ Student Off/ Off Des, is not the holder of the Queens Commision until graduation. Therefore even they do not warrant being saluted..
I will stand corrected though....
The Army used to call them Potential Officers i think...
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LL
Just to clarify that for RAF students;
An Officer Cadet (OC) is a non commissioned airman with the status of "Officer Under training" and is used on University Air Squadrons and at OACTU for Direct Entrants and Branch Commissions.
A Student Officer (SO) has already been commissioned, but their commission will not be confirmed until completion of IOT. This rank is used only at whilst at OACTU for Graduate Entrants, Specialist Entrants and Reserve Officers undertaking ROIT Phase 3.
Both wear the same white rank badges/hat bands etc and are not saluted whilst wearing these ranks.
Just to clarify that for RAF students;
An Officer Cadet (OC) is a non commissioned airman with the status of "Officer Under training" and is used on University Air Squadrons and at OACTU for Direct Entrants and Branch Commissions.
A Student Officer (SO) has already been commissioned, but their commission will not be confirmed until completion of IOT. This rank is used only at whilst at OACTU for Graduate Entrants, Specialist Entrants and Reserve Officers undertaking ROIT Phase 3.
Both wear the same white rank badges/hat bands etc and are not saluted whilst wearing these ranks.
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OM,
Thanks for that my learned friend....
I can remember a Warrant Officer shredding an Officer Cadet because he thought he was above his station....
Made me chuckle...
He is probably a Lt Col now though....
Thanks for that my learned friend....
I can remember a Warrant Officer shredding an Officer Cadet because he thought he was above his station....
Made me chuckle...
He is probably a Lt Col now though....
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As the captain of a civilian commercial aircraft I do not expect a salute, deference from individuals qualified to execute their duties, and I certainly do NOT have the right to be called "Sir". As a matter of fact I make a point of it. I have retired from military life and hold those who remain serving HM in the highest regard. A civilian pilot has only his own dignity, courtesy and benevolence to earn the respect he should wish for, as indeed the majority do. There is no commonality or equivalence between those who necessarily risk their own lives in the course of duty and those who have chosen to pilot aircraft or undertake any task purely for renumeration. We should never afford any commercially appointed individual the status enjoyed by even the most junior officer in any of the three services, but should reward them with the due regard their own extraordinary and professional efforts to achieve and retain their positions so entitles them.
Last edited by Whossat Forrus; 13th Oct 2005 at 12:34.
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WF,
In my dealings with Commercial Pilots, i have called them Capt or Sir out of courtesy, unless they then tell me to call them Jim /Bob etc...
It was just the way i was brought up.
In my dealings with Commercial Pilots, i have called them Capt or Sir out of courtesy, unless they then tell me to call them Jim /Bob etc...
It was just the way i was brought up.
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Absolutely right LL, and well done you, Sir, for pointing out the error in my argument. Good manners and the expectation that the 4 gold bar wearing chap in front of you is worthy of, at the very least, polite deference undoubtably shows you are a man brought up 'proper like'. I did, however, say that commercially appointed captains of aircraft do not have the RIGHT to be called "Sir", God forbid I should have inferred that proper conduct should be thought inappropriate. And good morning to you.
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WF,
Manners maketh the man i remember.....
Common courtesy costs nothing, but can cost a lot when things are starting to go wrong...with a bit of good manners thrown into the equation. even a bad scenario can sometimes be turned so as not to look so bad...
The L1011 Captain that invited me onto the flight deck for the approach into Gerona was gracious in his manner, whilst i was there....on leaving the flight deck i expressed my gratitude at being allowed to share the landing with him and his crew..
Cost me nothing...meant a lot......(pre 9/11 of course).
Even the somewhat "old school" term skipper shows a modicum of respect....
Morning to you too....
Happy landings....
Manners maketh the man i remember.....
Common courtesy costs nothing, but can cost a lot when things are starting to go wrong...with a bit of good manners thrown into the equation. even a bad scenario can sometimes be turned so as not to look so bad...
The L1011 Captain that invited me onto the flight deck for the approach into Gerona was gracious in his manner, whilst i was there....on leaving the flight deck i expressed my gratitude at being allowed to share the landing with him and his crew..
Cost me nothing...meant a lot......(pre 9/11 of course).
Even the somewhat "old school" term skipper shows a modicum of respect....
Morning to you too....
Happy landings....
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I also remember, as HS58 does that, HM C & E were commisioned and had equivalency but the brain cells cannot remember what the equivalency was!!
BTW, as a follow on to the Customs Officer's commissions thingy - Customs rank braids look similar to those of the RN even down to the direction of the curl - in fact ti's the other way around, HM Customs had then first!
Sorry to veer off topic...............
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Then there's the nagging question of the military rank of a military captain. I've encountered aircraft captains from Flt Lt to Gp Capt in my time, not to mention the four gold rings worn by the captain of a RN wobbly copter that popped ashore over here one day. Once, there were even Sergeants in command of multi crew military aircraft, but that was a little bit before my time.
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IIRC irrespective of rank/status, the person given responsibility for the safe and effective operation of an aircraft is called the Captain...or of late i have heard aircraft commander.
The AAC have Corporal pilots. These guys although still junior in rank to the majority of passengers they carry are still in command of the aircraft...
The Chief of Defence for example may not be a pilot so has no real input into how the Corporal handles the aircraft...
Well thats my understanding of the issue, again i will stand to be corrected...
The AAC have Corporal pilots. These guys although still junior in rank to the majority of passengers they carry are still in command of the aircraft...
The Chief of Defence for example may not be a pilot so has no real input into how the Corporal handles the aircraft...
Well thats my understanding of the issue, again i will stand to be corrected...
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The AAC have Corporal pilots. These guys although still junior in rank to the majority of passengers they carry are still in command of the aircraft...
The Chief of Defence for example may not be a pilot so has no real input into how the Corporal handles the aircraft...
The Chief of Defence for example may not be a pilot so has no real input into how the Corporal handles the aircraft...
2. It doesn't matter who/what the passenger is, they should have no input as to the handling of the aircraft.
But, things could possibly have changed since the days of manning levels!
SS
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I was told, a long time ago, that since there can only be one Captain on a ship (the bloke in charge) if a ship happened to have a commanding officer whose rank was below that of Captain and the ship was carrying a passenger with the rank of Captain the passenger would be promoted to Commodore for the duration of the voyage (acting, unpaid).
Assuming this is true (and it sounds feasible, at least) what rank would an army Captain assume? (under the same rules). And does the same apply aboard aircraft (army/navy Captains change rank for the duration of the flight)?
Assuming this is true (and it sounds feasible, at least) what rank would an army Captain assume? (under the same rules). And does the same apply aboard aircraft (army/navy Captains change rank for the duration of the flight)?