Saluting the ensign.
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Didn't we recently do this on another thread......the one where all the "Blue wearing, should have done better at school" Brigade took us dashing aircrew chaps to task in a similar "green hissy fit"
Some people are just so easy
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Some people are just so easy all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
At a secret fighter base in Lincolnshire wooly pully was the order of the day. No 1's went out about 10 years ago.
Cunning Artificer
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Originally everyone kept their working clothes in their locker in the squadron locker room.
No.2s were required for travelling to and from work or when appearing outdoors anywhere around the Station buildings or domestic site. No.1s were required when on Station Duty, public appearances or for ceremonial occasions. Indeed, that was the very purpose of having No.1s and No. 2s. Later the wooly-pully came in and was officially sanctioned (as No.3s? - I don't remember it ever being defined) as acceptable wear for the office, but not for Station Duty.
I've seen an Air Vice Marshal being interviewed on television recently while wearing a wooly-pully. With the top brass now behaving like common airmen, no wonder standards of dress have fallen so low.
No.2s were required for travelling to and from work or when appearing outdoors anywhere around the Station buildings or domestic site. No.1s were required when on Station Duty, public appearances or for ceremonial occasions. Indeed, that was the very purpose of having No.1s and No. 2s. Later the wooly-pully came in and was officially sanctioned (as No.3s? - I don't remember it ever being defined) as acceptable wear for the office, but not for Station Duty.
I've seen an Air Vice Marshal being interviewed on television recently while wearing a wooly-pully. With the top brass now behaving like common airmen, no wonder standards of dress have fallen so low.
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"With the top brass now behaving like common airmen"
A classic pompous upper class twit analogy, no wonder most of us "balders" have little or no respect for those that lead us
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
A classic pompous upper class twit analogy, no wonder most of us "balders" have little or no respect for those that lead us
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
"Silence - back to your dung, Baldrick!"
Blacksheep's opinion does seem somewhat dated?
Seriously though, pullover and tie was my prep school uniform and I hated wearing it in the RAF. But SDO/OO should, in my view, be a 'day in blue' and not in green growbag, clockwork squaddie 95 or similar attire.
One day at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome, the Ord Sgt was standing with whistle at the base of the flagpole with about 30 sec to go, wondering where the SDO was. Then, with a screech of brakes, an ancient BMW roared up and out fell Fat Peter. He threw his fag to the ground, shoved on an ancient cap and yelled "OK" to the Ord Sgt, then saluted, got back in the car and roared off.....
All witnessed in stunned shock by the ex-Colchester SWO who was speechless about it. Complained to the Boss - who just about managed to keep a straight face!
Blacksheep's opinion does seem somewhat dated?
Seriously though, pullover and tie was my prep school uniform and I hated wearing it in the RAF. But SDO/OO should, in my view, be a 'day in blue' and not in green growbag, clockwork squaddie 95 or similar attire.
One day at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome, the Ord Sgt was standing with whistle at the base of the flagpole with about 30 sec to go, wondering where the SDO was. Then, with a screech of brakes, an ancient BMW roared up and out fell Fat Peter. He threw his fag to the ground, shoved on an ancient cap and yelled "OK" to the Ord Sgt, then saluted, got back in the car and roared off.....
All witnessed in stunned shock by the ex-Colchester SWO who was speechless about it. Complained to the Boss - who just about managed to keep a straight face!
Fat Albert
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Blacksheep
With the top brass now behaving like common airmen, no wonder standards of dress have fallen so low.
Cheers
A Common Airman
(Dressed correctly and smartly Sir!!!)
Yes, Him
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I think that Blacksheep was an airman on Vs in the 1960s so maybe he's being a tad tongue-in-cheek?
Out of interest, what do other air forces do re Ensign up/down routine?
Out of interest, what do other air forces do re Ensign up/down routine?
Cunning Artificer
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Not in my cheek Gainsey, dangling in the water. Can I take it back out now I've got some fish that need cooking...?
Cheerio for now.
Cheerio for now.
The suggestion that OC GD/Stn Adj should salute the ensign is a very sensible one, indeed I've mentioned it before in my SDO reports.(much to the annoyance of OC Blunt Wg)
The average aircrew chap works in a building quite some distance from the ensign so the whole procedure usually wastes at least 30 mins twice a day.
First tourist admin chaps office is normally just a stones throw away and during the winter months he'll always be at work at 0800 and 1600. He'll be so poor that he'll live in the Mess so the later summer lowering time of 1800 isn't a great hardship and stops him wasting his paltry salary in the bar!
The average aircrew chap works in a building quite some distance from the ensign so the whole procedure usually wastes at least 30 mins twice a day.
First tourist admin chaps office is normally just a stones throw away and during the winter months he'll always be at work at 0800 and 1600. He'll be so poor that he'll live in the Mess so the later summer lowering time of 1800 isn't a great hardship and stops him wasting his paltry salary in the bar!
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Firstly: Suggesting someone has a day off flying because they are SDO/OO is hilarious! Do you have no idea of the work tempo / manpower issues / demands on front-line FJ sqns ? (and probably elsewhere)
Secondly: Surely the point is what do you have time to wear? Usually for flag waving in the evening I have to get someone else to do it or I curtail a sortie/debrief to get there just in time - in my flying suit. (Shock, horror). This is obviosly a waste of resources (how much does that sortie cost?) but tradition is tradition - we dont want effective training to get in the way of it! On the other hand, if I have time I'll change into no 2s. For inspecting a defaulter, I have always so far worked it so that I am dressed correctly. I think current orders here are no 2s - but I will of course wear no1s if thats what the orders say.
A capable Air Force first, a traditional Air Force second. If that makes me Pilot before Officer, then so be it, your call.
Have at!
Secondly: Surely the point is what do you have time to wear? Usually for flag waving in the evening I have to get someone else to do it or I curtail a sortie/debrief to get there just in time - in my flying suit. (Shock, horror). This is obviosly a waste of resources (how much does that sortie cost?) but tradition is tradition - we dont want effective training to get in the way of it! On the other hand, if I have time I'll change into no 2s. For inspecting a defaulter, I have always so far worked it so that I am dressed correctly. I think current orders here are no 2s - but I will of course wear no1s if thats what the orders say.
A capable Air Force first, a traditional Air Force second. If that makes me Pilot before Officer, then so be it, your call.
Have at!
Was Duty Auth on a fine SH Sqn in the emerald toilet some years ago, and answered the telephone to a very irate SWO who demanded to speak to the Orderly Officer, as he hadn't signed on that morning.
Pointed out to the SWO that SHQ wasn't open at 0600 when said OO had reported to work for a days tasking, and that he had made arrangements for the ensign to be saluted (although I think my choice of phrase "waving at the flag" didn't help his mood), and would take over as OO the moment he had returned from his primary duty.
Not good enough, apparently, he is required to sign on blah blah blah, and then the best one: "I demand he is recalled to sign on!".
Me: "That's right, we will interrupt the anti-terrorist operations going on today and destroy the whole flying programme, so that someone can return to base to sign on for a duty that you have just been told he is aware of and has covered?"
As the volume level then passed Health and Safety limits, I felt justified in putting the phone down (am convinced to this day that I could still hear him though).
2 minutes later, Duty Flt Cdr comes down: "did you just put the phone down on the SWO?"
Me: "Yes".
DFC: "Were you rude to him?"
Me: "Yes".
DFC: "Good, me too, just told him to f*ck off and annoy someone else. Carry on!".
Pointed out to the SWO that SHQ wasn't open at 0600 when said OO had reported to work for a days tasking, and that he had made arrangements for the ensign to be saluted (although I think my choice of phrase "waving at the flag" didn't help his mood), and would take over as OO the moment he had returned from his primary duty.
Not good enough, apparently, he is required to sign on blah blah blah, and then the best one: "I demand he is recalled to sign on!".
Me: "That's right, we will interrupt the anti-terrorist operations going on today and destroy the whole flying programme, so that someone can return to base to sign on for a duty that you have just been told he is aware of and has covered?"
As the volume level then passed Health and Safety limits, I felt justified in putting the phone down (am convinced to this day that I could still hear him though).
2 minutes later, Duty Flt Cdr comes down: "did you just put the phone down on the SWO?"
Me: "Yes".
DFC: "Were you rude to him?"
Me: "Yes".
DFC: "Good, me too, just told him to f*ck off and annoy someone else. Carry on!".
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Of course, it makes great sense if the OO isn't off galavanting during his period of duty - if galavanting is what he/she does then the duty needs to be assigned to somebody who is either permanently or temporarily non-galavanting.
Excuse the ignorance, but does the OO have any other responsibilities other than waving? I would have thought that they needed to remain available during their period of duty.
Excuse the ignorance, but does the OO have any other responsibilities other than waving? I would have thought that they needed to remain available during their period of duty.
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The OO or SDO is supposed to be the Stn Cdr's out-of-hours representative. As such when the office workers are in their offices he should have nothing to do. The problems start when the flyers day (and some other sorts of workers day, but the flyers are the main ones who run into problems) does not fit neatly in to the office day ie just about all the time!
As to what the SDO actually does - these days there seems to be very little arising that both:
cannot not be dealt with by a competent NCO
and does not require the attention of a senior officer.
So is there room to scrap a level of beauro
beuaroc
beureaucr
(I give up)
admin trivia??
Sven
As to what the SDO actually does - these days there seems to be very little arising that both:
cannot not be dealt with by a competent NCO
and does not require the attention of a senior officer.
So is there room to scrap a level of beauro
beuaroc
beureaucr
(I give up)
admin trivia??
Sven
Thread Starter
.....errrr not really.
Have been away for a couple of days and just caught up with the thread.
Pull pin, run away!!!
It's fun to read.
Personally I think the sight of officers in different uniforms demonstrates that every officer is doing his duty, not just those in blue. I see that many disagree.
I'm all for standards but as someone else pointed out, for us aircrew types it is a half hour process to get changed, get to the flag, salute, get back, get changed. Very tiresome. Much quicker to get OC GD to do the two minute job!
Standing by for incoming.
BV
Pull pin, run away!!!
It's fun to read.
Personally I think the sight of officers in different uniforms demonstrates that every officer is doing his duty, not just those in blue. I see that many disagree.
I'm all for standards but as someone else pointed out, for us aircrew types it is a half hour process to get changed, get to the flag, salute, get back, get changed. Very tiresome. Much quicker to get OC GD to do the two minute job!
Standing by for incoming.
BV
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As OC GD is the "slackbladder" that normally hands out these admin duties can't see him dickin himself for it on a permanent basis
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Little or no flying takes place at the weekend, therefore aircrew could easily cover the weekend SDO - and public holidays come to think of it. Think i'll send a memo to the SWO..........................
Thread Starter
Wait a minute.....
I never said I couldn't or wouldn't do the job, just that it makes more sense to remain in ones' working dress.
I actually don't mind doing it at all since I think it is a rather quaint little tradition.
BV
I actually don't mind doing it at all since I think it is a rather quaint little tradition.
BV