Aptitude Results!
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Aptitude Results!
Hi all,
On Tuesday I undertook my FAT's hoping for pilot the fleet air arm. I posted an 'extremely competitive score' for the pilot battery, but failed the observer battery. Absolutely gutted. When it came to my debrief, the Lieutenant (very nice chap indeed), told me that my pilot score was as I say very competitive, however I was let down by the observer results. He told me that I passed all the observer tests, but failed miserably on the speed distance time calculations/problems solving section. This he said was to his surprise as my maths score was very good. I asked him whether, if I had scraped a pass in the sdt section, would I have passed observer, to which he replied yes. This makes things even more disappointing as you might imagine. However, he said I may be considered for a second bash at the observer tests and that I never have to take the pilot test again (that’s a relief!).
As I mentioned I’m gutted, however optimistic at the same time. In the de-brief he spent some time with me going over some maths problem solving stuff, (which incidentally I haven't done since GCSE - 6 years ago). The reason I’m optimistic is that if I get a second shot in a years time, I could get tutoring in preparation just for that section. The officer asked me whether I had considered any other career in the Navy. I informed him that pilot is all I have ever wanted, but as my desire to be a Naval officer is so strong I would in the end go for warfare officer if all avenues for aircrew have been exorsted. He informed me that my pilot score far and a way exceeded that of the competitive requirements for pilot in the AAC, and whether I would consider that, as a pass in the observer test is not necessary.
I have to speak to my Liaison officer about this, but would appreciate any input some of you may have in regards to my options. I am more than prepared to wait a year and take the test again, but do not think I want to go the army route.
I was wondering if anyone knew if I could try to join in November (provided I pass AIB) as a warfare officer, do my terms at IOT, and then afterwards re-take the observer test (which should be about a year later). This would mean that if I was successful I go progress to EFT, however, if I was unsuccessful I would carry on as a warfare officer. This seems like a logical way to go about it to me, as I want to join straight away, and all aircrew have to do the terms at IOT the same as all the rest. Would this be a good way of getting my foot in the door so-to-speak?.. (I’m just 22 and have graduated this summer, by the way).
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Regards.
Nick
On Tuesday I undertook my FAT's hoping for pilot the fleet air arm. I posted an 'extremely competitive score' for the pilot battery, but failed the observer battery. Absolutely gutted. When it came to my debrief, the Lieutenant (very nice chap indeed), told me that my pilot score was as I say very competitive, however I was let down by the observer results. He told me that I passed all the observer tests, but failed miserably on the speed distance time calculations/problems solving section. This he said was to his surprise as my maths score was very good. I asked him whether, if I had scraped a pass in the sdt section, would I have passed observer, to which he replied yes. This makes things even more disappointing as you might imagine. However, he said I may be considered for a second bash at the observer tests and that I never have to take the pilot test again (that’s a relief!).
As I mentioned I’m gutted, however optimistic at the same time. In the de-brief he spent some time with me going over some maths problem solving stuff, (which incidentally I haven't done since GCSE - 6 years ago). The reason I’m optimistic is that if I get a second shot in a years time, I could get tutoring in preparation just for that section. The officer asked me whether I had considered any other career in the Navy. I informed him that pilot is all I have ever wanted, but as my desire to be a Naval officer is so strong I would in the end go for warfare officer if all avenues for aircrew have been exorsted. He informed me that my pilot score far and a way exceeded that of the competitive requirements for pilot in the AAC, and whether I would consider that, as a pass in the observer test is not necessary.
I have to speak to my Liaison officer about this, but would appreciate any input some of you may have in regards to my options. I am more than prepared to wait a year and take the test again, but do not think I want to go the army route.
I was wondering if anyone knew if I could try to join in November (provided I pass AIB) as a warfare officer, do my terms at IOT, and then afterwards re-take the observer test (which should be about a year later). This would mean that if I was successful I go progress to EFT, however, if I was unsuccessful I would carry on as a warfare officer. This seems like a logical way to go about it to me, as I want to join straight away, and all aircrew have to do the terms at IOT the same as all the rest. Would this be a good way of getting my foot in the door so-to-speak?.. (I’m just 22 and have graduated this summer, by the way).
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Regards.
Nick
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Aircrew Officers are sub specialised Warfare Officers, just like Navigators, PWOs, Mine Clearance Divers etc etc.
Be wary of signing up as a Warfare (Seaman) Officer on a promise that they will let you go aircrew straight away - it may not happen that way. You could of course join as a Warfare Officer, do your Fleet time, OOW time then apply to sub specialise but this would take a good few years. I think you want to go aircrew straight away and this is why I think you should be careful. If you are a potential career man with aspirations for sea command etc then maybe the best way to go is to do the Warfare Officer thing for a few years with an aircrew stint in the middle, then return to the general service for command tours etc. If you just want to fly maybe you ought to wait a year, however with that being said you have to be careful about age limits etc. A challenging dilemma.
Next step would be the AIB - just FYI Naval Officers do not undertake IOT - that happens to our light blue bretheren at RAFC Cranwell - we attend officer training at BRNC Dartmouth.
Good Luck, keep us posted.
Oggin
Be wary of signing up as a Warfare (Seaman) Officer on a promise that they will let you go aircrew straight away - it may not happen that way. You could of course join as a Warfare Officer, do your Fleet time, OOW time then apply to sub specialise but this would take a good few years. I think you want to go aircrew straight away and this is why I think you should be careful. If you are a potential career man with aspirations for sea command etc then maybe the best way to go is to do the Warfare Officer thing for a few years with an aircrew stint in the middle, then return to the general service for command tours etc. If you just want to fly maybe you ought to wait a year, however with that being said you have to be careful about age limits etc. A challenging dilemma.
Next step would be the AIB - just FYI Naval Officers do not undertake IOT - that happens to our light blue bretheren at RAFC Cranwell - we attend officer training at BRNC Dartmouth.
Good Luck, keep us posted.
Oggin
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Aircrew Officers are sub specialised Warfare Officers
We do allow the odd Engineer to slip through the net though
Oggin has a good point though. If you aspire to Command then dont bother with the FAA. If you want to fly....join up, but dont expect to Command anything more than a flight.
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Nick
I smell a supply and demand rat (recruitment and retention?)
Did you apply for Seaman Branch so you could become 1st Sea Lord eventually?, or just apply to fly RN - it features in their assessment of you!
Mate of mine went to Biggin Hill, massively over qualified for pilot, did well, and was told he should think about being a Supply
Officer, and, once established in the Service, apply for crossover to become a pilot later on. Ha! Ha!Ha!
They have stats to meet, and will sell their granny to achieve them
Your matey's de-brief should have concentrated on the failures for your primary, rather than your secondary choice. That would have been more helpful for your next application.
However, in fairness, flying is all about STD, regardless of trade, and is fundamental in the safe operation of the ac.
The modern day computer schools (teachers) have lost these mandraulic mental arithmetic skills. The military selection process has recognised this and adapted; however the failure rate is higher now than it ever was
Bone up on STD, and best of luck at your next visit
B15
I smell a supply and demand rat (recruitment and retention?)
Did you apply for Seaman Branch so you could become 1st Sea Lord eventually?, or just apply to fly RN - it features in their assessment of you!
Mate of mine went to Biggin Hill, massively over qualified for pilot, did well, and was told he should think about being a Supply
Officer, and, once established in the Service, apply for crossover to become a pilot later on. Ha! Ha!Ha!
They have stats to meet, and will sell their granny to achieve them
Your matey's de-brief should have concentrated on the failures for your primary, rather than your secondary choice. That would have been more helpful for your next application.
However, in fairness, flying is all about STD, regardless of trade, and is fundamental in the safe operation of the ac.
The modern day computer schools (teachers) have lost these mandraulic mental arithmetic skills. The military selection process has recognised this and adapted; however the failure rate is higher now than it ever was
Bone up on STD, and best of luck at your next visit
B15
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Nick,
I do not believe that you can do Observer only aptitude tests when you re-try, the whole batch of tests run through and are assessed, some tests that may seem pilot only also form part of the observer scores, some of the tests are not used for assessment at all! Just be ready to do the lot again when you return.
Like others already, go for your first choice aircrew or seaman don’t accept second choice until you have no other alternative.
Good luck.
I do not believe that you can do Observer only aptitude tests when you re-try, the whole batch of tests run through and are assessed, some tests that may seem pilot only also form part of the observer scores, some of the tests are not used for assessment at all! Just be ready to do the lot again when you return.
Like others already, go for your first choice aircrew or seaman don’t accept second choice until you have no other alternative.
Good luck.
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Nick
Listen to what cobaltfrog has to say - he's probably the best and most current authority for someone in your situation.
buoy15 may well be right - the recruiters will sell their granny to hit their targets, and it's been like that for 30 years at least. Way back in early 1978 I was told, having asked to join BRNC in Sept of that year "we may not be able to fit you in then, if you want to be sure of joining you'd better start in April".
Imagine my surprise when the lads that joined in Sept told me they'd all been told that, but had stuck firm!
Back to your problem - if you really want to fly in the RN, don't go in as a fish head - the transfer to aircrew route was not in my time easy at all, although it could be done. If you really want to fly in the AAC, join as an NCO, as the ruperts do one flying tour and then manage/fly a desk.
Listen to what cobaltfrog has to say - he's probably the best and most current authority for someone in your situation.
buoy15 may well be right - the recruiters will sell their granny to hit their targets, and it's been like that for 30 years at least. Way back in early 1978 I was told, having asked to join BRNC in Sept of that year "we may not be able to fit you in then, if you want to be sure of joining you'd better start in April".
Imagine my surprise when the lads that joined in Sept told me they'd all been told that, but had stuck firm!
Back to your problem - if you really want to fly in the RN, don't go in as a fish head - the transfer to aircrew route was not in my time easy at all, although it could be done. If you really want to fly in the AAC, join as an NCO, as the ruperts do one flying tour and then manage/fly a desk.
Last edited by airborne_artist; 28th Jul 2005 at 18:46.
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Nick,
Just to continue the theme... When I applied to the RAF in '95 as Pilot/Nav, I gained 'extremely competitive' stats on the aptitude tests. Much to my suprise, 6 months later I was offered a Commission in either the RAF Regiment or the Supply Branch. Naturally I queried this and was told to accept one of these offers and apply for a branch change after graduation (can you tell whats coming...!?) .
Eight years later, and 3 failed attempts to branch change, I am still a stacker!! The replies I had from the various chairmen of the branch change boards over the years commented positively on my 'highly competitive portfolio' - this included strong reccommendations for entry into flying traing from a number of fast jet and helo QFIs/QHIs who took me up in the gin blue skies for assessments.
I'll put the soap box away, as it's late on a friday! To sum up, they have their quotas and once they get you they dont like you to leave! Stick to your guns and only accept YOUR choice of branch.
Monkey
Just to continue the theme... When I applied to the RAF in '95 as Pilot/Nav, I gained 'extremely competitive' stats on the aptitude tests. Much to my suprise, 6 months later I was offered a Commission in either the RAF Regiment or the Supply Branch. Naturally I queried this and was told to accept one of these offers and apply for a branch change after graduation (can you tell whats coming...!?) .
Eight years later, and 3 failed attempts to branch change, I am still a stacker!! The replies I had from the various chairmen of the branch change boards over the years commented positively on my 'highly competitive portfolio' - this included strong reccommendations for entry into flying traing from a number of fast jet and helo QFIs/QHIs who took me up in the gin blue skies for assessments.
I'll put the soap box away, as it's late on a friday! To sum up, they have their quotas and once they get you they dont like you to leave! Stick to your guns and only accept YOUR choice of branch.
Monkey
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Nothing much changes!
I desperately wanted to be a pilot and went through RAF Pilot/Nav aptitude in the early 1970s. I was told I had passed both but my scores for Nav were better and asked to consider dropping my pilot application altogether.
My answer was "Sorry, no way - it's pilot I really want".
I wasn't accepted and was very disappointed indeed - later I found out that the handful of pilots they recruited that year were found by February - my tests weren't until late June! If I had accepted Nav, I would probably have got it at that stage.
The following year, completely unexpectedly, I received a letter advising me I was accepted as pilot, on the results of my previous aptitude tests.
The laws of supply and demand. Good luck though.
P.S. One "back door" way into the RAF as pilot in my time (left in '94) was to join as NCO aircrew, prove yourself, continually pester for any available stick time and get a recommendation to transfer to pilot from your Squadron Commander.
I desperately wanted to be a pilot and went through RAF Pilot/Nav aptitude in the early 1970s. I was told I had passed both but my scores for Nav were better and asked to consider dropping my pilot application altogether.
My answer was "Sorry, no way - it's pilot I really want".
I wasn't accepted and was very disappointed indeed - later I found out that the handful of pilots they recruited that year were found by February - my tests weren't until late June! If I had accepted Nav, I would probably have got it at that stage.
The following year, completely unexpectedly, I received a letter advising me I was accepted as pilot, on the results of my previous aptitude tests.
The laws of supply and demand. Good luck though.
P.S. One "back door" way into the RAF as pilot in my time (left in '94) was to join as NCO aircrew, prove yourself, continually pester for any available stick time and get a recommendation to transfer to pilot from your Squadron Commander.
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Hi all,
I would just like to thank those who have offered their advice regarding my dilemma, and especially to those who are actively helping to find a solution. Your help is greatly appreciated.
Just to clarify; I am not primarily interested in climbing the RN rank scale, as it is becoming a FAA pilot which is of primary concern to me. However, as I stated in my post, if I were unsuccessful and all avenues towards entering for aircrew had been completely exorsted, I would apply to the RN as a warfare officer.
To update you, I am currently looking at my options. If I were to be given another bash at the Observer tests, then I will wait the required amount of time to re-take them.
In the meantime, it’s job-hunting for me!! If I have to wait another 9 months, it’s a good opportunity for me to bolster my C.V in regards to my next application. I’m thinking along to lines of leadership courses, charity work and other extra curricular activities. Possibly RNR?
I’ll keep you updated.
Regards,
Nick
I would just like to thank those who have offered their advice regarding my dilemma, and especially to those who are actively helping to find a solution. Your help is greatly appreciated.
Just to clarify; I am not primarily interested in climbing the RN rank scale, as it is becoming a FAA pilot which is of primary concern to me. However, as I stated in my post, if I were unsuccessful and all avenues towards entering for aircrew had been completely exorsted, I would apply to the RN as a warfare officer.
To update you, I am currently looking at my options. If I were to be given another bash at the Observer tests, then I will wait the required amount of time to re-take them.
In the meantime, it’s job-hunting for me!! If I have to wait another 9 months, it’s a good opportunity for me to bolster my C.V in regards to my next application. I’m thinking along to lines of leadership courses, charity work and other extra curricular activities. Possibly RNR?
I’ll keep you updated.
Regards,
Nick
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Just thought i'd let you know, last week i recived a letter through from the AIB inviting me to retake the FAT's next year. the officer who de-breifed me said that i would not have to re-take the pilot fat's just the Observer battery, however some responses on here have suggested that i might have to take them all again. Either way i am delighted! Have now found a job, and will just see out the rest of this year boosting my CV and preparing for next time!
Ragards to all,
Nick
Ragards to all,
Nick
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Nick,
please don't join the RNR. The training pipeline takes around 2 years to get to the trained strength and it is not on to take a place knowing full well that you are unlikely to ever have any operational value to the RNR as you're dissapearing off to the RN. Yes the RNR is a lot closer to the RN nowadays, but it still really annoys people when new entry's turn up knowing they'll only be there for 6 months. Its a waste of peoples time and limited resources.
please don't join the RNR. The training pipeline takes around 2 years to get to the trained strength and it is not on to take a place knowing full well that you are unlikely to ever have any operational value to the RNR as you're dissapearing off to the RN. Yes the RNR is a lot closer to the RN nowadays, but it still really annoys people when new entry's turn up knowing they'll only be there for 6 months. Its a waste of peoples time and limited resources.
