RAF Police, waste of space or not?
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Can I just say...that while reading this on-going thread over the last few days, how petty the anti-RAFP brigade sound.
They have a job to do... at least they're RAF and not Army, then you'd really have something to moan about.
They have a job to do and I find it sounds rather unfair when such comments are directed towards them. Sure you have your little Hitlers and whatnot, but what trade doesnt.
They pull you over for drinking, invalid tax, or have a go for some other petty thing and you moan. Lets hope some friend or loved-one isn't hit by that same lunatic in a car, then you'll really have reason to moan.
In my experience RAFP were nothing but nice, got a blue-light taxi home when getting separated from parents at Gutersloh, aswell as first aid from a passing rozzer when falling off my bike at Wildenrath.
Will follow the thread still, but I cannot believe that the so-called elite come on here to bitch and moan about others working towards the same common-good.
They have a job to do... at least they're RAF and not Army, then you'd really have something to moan about.
They have a job to do and I find it sounds rather unfair when such comments are directed towards them. Sure you have your little Hitlers and whatnot, but what trade doesnt.
They pull you over for drinking, invalid tax, or have a go for some other petty thing and you moan. Lets hope some friend or loved-one isn't hit by that same lunatic in a car, then you'll really have reason to moan.
In my experience RAFP were nothing but nice, got a blue-light taxi home when getting separated from parents at Gutersloh, aswell as first aid from a passing rozzer when falling off my bike at Wildenrath.
Will follow the thread still, but I cannot believe that the so-called elite come on here to bitch and moan about others working towards the same common-good.
Fat Albert
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aes69
Totally agree with your post.
Rank doesn`t make any difference when it comes to drink driving the consequences are the same. I would hate to think that any CO could be capable of such a narrow minded action trying to protect the reputation of an errant serviceman of whatever rank leading to someone being killed by a drunk driver.
Rank doesn`t make any difference when it comes to drink driving the consequences are the same. I would hate to think that any CO could be capable of such a narrow minded action trying to protect the reputation of an errant serviceman of whatever rank leading to someone being killed by a drunk driver.
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SBG and all concerned,
On Monday 18 April I received a telephone call from Nick's sister, Louise, informing me of his sudden death. At the time the circumstances were not clear, but they have now been confirmed.
Nick, a 38 year-old Provost Officer based at AWC Waddington, had been white water rafting at the National Water Sports Centre, Holme Pierrepoint, Nottingham. A keen sportsman (he played rugby regularly and had only recently returned from a walking holiday in Wales), Nick was no stranger to knocks and spills, so when he fell out of the raft he and his friends were having a great time. On returning to the raft, however, Nick complained about having something stuck in his throat and fainted. His friends attempted to resuscitate him but he was declared dead at 5.45pm, Saturday 16 April. From what his sister said to me, the post mortem uncovered a tear in his aorta which might have been there for some time. In effect, Nick didn't stand a chance and sudden death was almost a certainty.
Nick was one of the most gregarious, constantly up-beat men I have ever worked with. As my 'R' Flight Commander at Cranwell, it is no exaggeration to say that he made me who I am today. Those of us who he pulled through Cranwell have a lot to be grateful for. As one of my friends put it, "Nick restored my faith in the people I work with. Without him, I'd have given up on IOT." I also worked closely with nick following graduation at Cranwell Exercise Plans. Not much achieved in terms of officer development, but it does count as one of the most riotously funny periods of my career to date.
Nick maintained an ongoing interest in his former students. I spoke to him a few weeks before his death, and he was, as always, keen to find out about what I and other former flt members had been up to. He also sounded tremendously happy that he was playing rugby again after a long-term knee injury.
Nick's loss will be felt across many areas in the Service. He had an immensely varied career, one which took him to Sarajevo, Thumrait, Northern Ireland, and other troubled areas of the world. I don't know anyone else who managed to get chased out of Radovan Karadic's back garden by an Uzi-wielding bodyguard. Most recently he was working closely with the Int community at the Air Warfare Centre, something of a trailblazer for his branch.
His funeral will take place with full military honours at St Luke's Church, Hickling, on Tuesday 26 April. If you knew Nick and would like more details about the service, please PM me.
TE
On Monday 18 April I received a telephone call from Nick's sister, Louise, informing me of his sudden death. At the time the circumstances were not clear, but they have now been confirmed.
Nick, a 38 year-old Provost Officer based at AWC Waddington, had been white water rafting at the National Water Sports Centre, Holme Pierrepoint, Nottingham. A keen sportsman (he played rugby regularly and had only recently returned from a walking holiday in Wales), Nick was no stranger to knocks and spills, so when he fell out of the raft he and his friends were having a great time. On returning to the raft, however, Nick complained about having something stuck in his throat and fainted. His friends attempted to resuscitate him but he was declared dead at 5.45pm, Saturday 16 April. From what his sister said to me, the post mortem uncovered a tear in his aorta which might have been there for some time. In effect, Nick didn't stand a chance and sudden death was almost a certainty.
Nick was one of the most gregarious, constantly up-beat men I have ever worked with. As my 'R' Flight Commander at Cranwell, it is no exaggeration to say that he made me who I am today. Those of us who he pulled through Cranwell have a lot to be grateful for. As one of my friends put it, "Nick restored my faith in the people I work with. Without him, I'd have given up on IOT." I also worked closely with nick following graduation at Cranwell Exercise Plans. Not much achieved in terms of officer development, but it does count as one of the most riotously funny periods of my career to date.
Nick maintained an ongoing interest in his former students. I spoke to him a few weeks before his death, and he was, as always, keen to find out about what I and other former flt members had been up to. He also sounded tremendously happy that he was playing rugby again after a long-term knee injury.
Nick's loss will be felt across many areas in the Service. He had an immensely varied career, one which took him to Sarajevo, Thumrait, Northern Ireland, and other troubled areas of the world. I don't know anyone else who managed to get chased out of Radovan Karadic's back garden by an Uzi-wielding bodyguard. Most recently he was working closely with the Int community at the Air Warfare Centre, something of a trailblazer for his branch.
His funeral will take place with full military honours at St Luke's Church, Hickling, on Tuesday 26 April. If you knew Nick and would like more details about the service, please PM me.
TE
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Well, I remember Battle of Britain night at BZN in 1976!!!
Drunk Flt Lt not quite old enough to have served in the battle decided to drive home at about 0100 hours but did a U turn at the traffic lights in centre of Carterton to return to the gate, guard asked for his ID card, but he said he could not show it as he was ''the intelligence officer'' and nobody was allowed to see it!! Guard telephones RAFP for assistance, I was diverted to the scene, and found F/L slumped over the steering wheel. As he was still outside the gate I called for Civ Pol to attend, and I removed the car keys from vehicle. F/L got stroppy and refused to get out of car, threatening me with all sorts of things, (I liked a challenge!!)
PC arrived very quickly and I was requested to help get 'IO' out of his car. After considerable aggro he was arrested and taken away.
An hour later I was in the office for a spell, writing up the incident. Phone rings, ''Good evening Corporal, Wg Cdr ******* here, regretably one of our officers has been arrested for drink / driving. I want you to telephone Superintendant ***** in Witney Police Station, give him my regards and mention that I am a member of the same Freemason's Lodge as him, and ask him if he could possibly sweep this one under the carpet''.
To save the Wg Co further embarrassment, in the form of Stn Cdr having him in for interview without coffee on Monday morning I chose to disobey his order.
But, later the following week, I thrashed the Wg Co at squash, as a punishment for trying to put me in an embarrassing position with the local police! Gave him a right run around the court, he nearly collapsed. But he never knew it was me who he spoke to a few evenings previously! The pillock!
F/L had his day in court, fined and lost his licence for a year.
On another occasion local PC came to seek assistance in locating a 'suspect' for something or other, we felt he would be in the Families club, just 'outside the wire'. We were asked by PC to go and help him. On arrival we found a number of officers present including Wg Co Admin, who strutted across and said, '' Get out, we have not asked you in here''. PC said he was authorised to enter as he was seeking a felon and did not need an invitation. The Wg Co spluttered and said,'' Well, you (meaning we 2 Cpls) can leave''. I said, ''We have been requested to assist the Constable''. Wg Cdr says, ''I don't care, leave now''. The PC said, '' They are assisting me and if you persist in obstructing me in the course of my duty, I will arrest you and take you to the Police station''. That shut him up. Did what we had to do and departed.
Wg Co had to have a chat with the Stn Cdr next day, who reminded him of his responsibilities!
Drunk Flt Lt not quite old enough to have served in the battle decided to drive home at about 0100 hours but did a U turn at the traffic lights in centre of Carterton to return to the gate, guard asked for his ID card, but he said he could not show it as he was ''the intelligence officer'' and nobody was allowed to see it!! Guard telephones RAFP for assistance, I was diverted to the scene, and found F/L slumped over the steering wheel. As he was still outside the gate I called for Civ Pol to attend, and I removed the car keys from vehicle. F/L got stroppy and refused to get out of car, threatening me with all sorts of things, (I liked a challenge!!)
PC arrived very quickly and I was requested to help get 'IO' out of his car. After considerable aggro he was arrested and taken away.
An hour later I was in the office for a spell, writing up the incident. Phone rings, ''Good evening Corporal, Wg Cdr ******* here, regretably one of our officers has been arrested for drink / driving. I want you to telephone Superintendant ***** in Witney Police Station, give him my regards and mention that I am a member of the same Freemason's Lodge as him, and ask him if he could possibly sweep this one under the carpet''.
To save the Wg Co further embarrassment, in the form of Stn Cdr having him in for interview without coffee on Monday morning I chose to disobey his order.
But, later the following week, I thrashed the Wg Co at squash, as a punishment for trying to put me in an embarrassing position with the local police! Gave him a right run around the court, he nearly collapsed. But he never knew it was me who he spoke to a few evenings previously! The pillock!
F/L had his day in court, fined and lost his licence for a year.
On another occasion local PC came to seek assistance in locating a 'suspect' for something or other, we felt he would be in the Families club, just 'outside the wire'. We were asked by PC to go and help him. On arrival we found a number of officers present including Wg Co Admin, who strutted across and said, '' Get out, we have not asked you in here''. PC said he was authorised to enter as he was seeking a felon and did not need an invitation. The Wg Co spluttered and said,'' Well, you (meaning we 2 Cpls) can leave''. I said, ''We have been requested to assist the Constable''. Wg Cdr says, ''I don't care, leave now''. The PC said, '' They are assisting me and if you persist in obstructing me in the course of my duty, I will arrest you and take you to the Police station''. That shut him up. Did what we had to do and departed.
Wg Co had to have a chat with the Stn Cdr next day, who reminded him of his responsibilities!
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Steady, we'll be bashing the officers next!
I have several stories, all of them put the RAFP in a good light. I've been caught untaxed, bollocked and allowed to renew without further ado.
Been stopped for a light out, breathalized (bit OTT) and allowed on my way.
Been woken at 1 in the morning by Plod informing me that my vehical had just been vandalized in the NAAFI car park! They saw the geezer do it, and chased him to the adjacent block, where they waited for bloody ages trying to get in. He'd vanished though, and they later used some interesting tactics to get him to own up!
Over all, had no probs, and they have been nothing but polite whatever the contact.
I have several stories, all of them put the RAFP in a good light. I've been caught untaxed, bollocked and allowed to renew without further ado.
Been stopped for a light out, breathalized (bit OTT) and allowed on my way.
Been woken at 1 in the morning by Plod informing me that my vehical had just been vandalized in the NAAFI car park! They saw the geezer do it, and chased him to the adjacent block, where they waited for bloody ages trying to get in. He'd vanished though, and they later used some interesting tactics to get him to own up!
Over all, had no probs, and they have been nothing but polite whatever the contact.
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The RAF gets a lot of bang for its buck from the RAFP. They are a remarkably adaptable bunch and run on a fraction of the budget of most police forces.
During Op Telic 1, for example, when the Mod Plod found themselves completely out of their depth, providing security for the B52s at Fairford and some very high level flapping ensued, the RAFP were called in by VCDS himself to sort it. They did.
During Op Telic 1, for example, when the Mod Plod found themselves completely out of their depth, providing security for the B52s at Fairford and some very high level flapping ensued, the RAFP were called in by VCDS himself to sort it. They did.
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I rember an incident involving an aeroplane driver, won't say what squadron, who decided to do the stupid & lazy thing and attempt to drive to quaters after a night on the lash. Got as far as the camp gate, RAFP stopped him then called CivPol over. The following sight was one to behold. Out of car steps driver dressed in T-****, shorts with RAF shoes & socks whilst being very unsteady. Needless to say he was nicked and carted off to spend some time in the local cells. RAFP had to move the car to a safe place, unfortunatly the copper couldn't find 2nd and the throttle must have stuck open as the engine wasn't half screaming. Still if you are going to be stupid enough to drink and drive you must be prepared to accept the fall out. I wonder if his boss tried to get him off the charge?
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A read of the recent posts shows a feeling that you would like us to do more on units, sadly at present this impossible.
A lot of units have changed to core policing, so no copper on the gates etc and indeed many units only have 1 or 2 coppers on shift and probably on a pager at night as they work days too.
Theres only a few units where we have the manpower to do the job we want to do, I am sure you know which ones they are.
I don't like the thought that we can have junior Cpls attending an incident on their own, which can be anything from a Naafi riot to a fatal road crash or worse. However that is our lot and we have to get on with it.
With regard to Impaired driving, some units still have breath kits and use them and you are quite correct there is no excuse for drinking and driving no matter the rank. I have lost friends to such idiots and no sympathy will be forthcoming from me.
As for stopping a suspected drink driver leaving the unit...well you can look at in two ways. If you know that he/she has been drinking then he should be stopped if possible otherwise the NCO will be condoning the offence. On the otherhand whilst on unit the offence is contary to orders and although Harry won't be chuffed its not a hanging offence, outside the gates it becomes a civil offence and I am sure I dont have to explain the ramifications of being stopped by Civ Pol after a 'tip off'.
Of course I am not suggesting that is common practice, but sometimes it is just impossible to stop a vehicle before it leaves the confines of the unit. (Especially if your somewhere on a pager...)
One last thing, when you're overseas (Cypus, Gib, OOA) the RAFP will very quickly be your best friends as we are there to help you more than 'do' you. So the next time you have been caught out by a Strip bar Scam, Beaten up by russian mafia taxi drivers, arrested by the local plod....just remember that a lot goes on behind the scenes to enable us to smooth things over and indeed get you justice or released!
A lot of units have changed to core policing, so no copper on the gates etc and indeed many units only have 1 or 2 coppers on shift and probably on a pager at night as they work days too.
Theres only a few units where we have the manpower to do the job we want to do, I am sure you know which ones they are.
I don't like the thought that we can have junior Cpls attending an incident on their own, which can be anything from a Naafi riot to a fatal road crash or worse. However that is our lot and we have to get on with it.
With regard to Impaired driving, some units still have breath kits and use them and you are quite correct there is no excuse for drinking and driving no matter the rank. I have lost friends to such idiots and no sympathy will be forthcoming from me.
As for stopping a suspected drink driver leaving the unit...well you can look at in two ways. If you know that he/she has been drinking then he should be stopped if possible otherwise the NCO will be condoning the offence. On the otherhand whilst on unit the offence is contary to orders and although Harry won't be chuffed its not a hanging offence, outside the gates it becomes a civil offence and I am sure I dont have to explain the ramifications of being stopped by Civ Pol after a 'tip off'.
Of course I am not suggesting that is common practice, but sometimes it is just impossible to stop a vehicle before it leaves the confines of the unit. (Especially if your somewhere on a pager...)
One last thing, when you're overseas (Cypus, Gib, OOA) the RAFP will very quickly be your best friends as we are there to help you more than 'do' you. So the next time you have been caught out by a Strip bar Scam, Beaten up by russian mafia taxi drivers, arrested by the local plod....just remember that a lot goes on behind the scenes to enable us to smooth things over and indeed get you justice or released!
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Unfortunately, my impression of the RAFP is that they are jobsworths who have no concept of what is important and what is not. They are only interested in 'easy' convinctions (tax discs, speeding etc) because these mean the minimum of work. If this sad case of affairs is indeed not truly indicative of the fine work these people do, then the unhelpful, lazy ones should be weeded out because they give your service a bad name. I cite a number of examples;
Firstly, at a previous station many moons ago, I had my car broken into on base, in the same evening as a number of other livers-in had numerous items stolen. The garages are not 100yds from RAFP station and armed personnel. I reported the stuff gone, as did the others, not a dickie bird. Fine, bad luck, I thought.
Some days later, had the displeasure to share my lunch break with a number RAFP from home station and A. N. Other. Took about 20mins of listening to them bemoaning that they were only allowed to use their speed camera on base, and various other inter-station speed camera bragging, until I politely inquired about leads on my stuff. (Let's not forget this is a base with armed guards, several personal, and an extremely large inventory of expensive aeroplanes- I would have thought that unauthorsied intrusion, theft, and damage to property were fairly important cases for these people.) No leads alas, still, caught OC Admin doing 22 MPH the other day! Ha ha. To$$ers.
When I had the bad luck luck to draw orderly officer duty during a large officers' mess function, I completed my task of the key check in the guardroom. In the guardroom I found SNCO RAFP with a number of his civvy mates. When I casually inquired if they were having some sort of police party, they said no no, just invited the civvies along so, if there is any trouble at the function, we can get a proper criminal convinction rather than a slap on the wrist from the Staish. Good, thanks for that, lads.
Another one. When going away on short overseas detachment to benign EU country, we had to have the obligatory Int brief from SNCO Police. (A different one to that described above) On congregating in the agreed lecture theatre, no policeman to be found, and after 20 mins, still no-one turned up. Decided to de-camp to police station (as they weren't answering the phone). On arrival RAFP Sgt T. Osser, 'explains' to Sqn Ldr IC detachment that, as brief contains classified material he couldn't possibly remove it from the police station. Never mind that he agreed to the original meeting place and never said anything about a problem, he then admitted, after heavy 'questioning' from said furious Sqn Ldr, that in fact he couldn't be bothered to get himself across camp as it was raining and he knew we'd turn up at the Cop Shop in the end! Unbelievable.
These indescribables should be put out to pasture where they can do other jobs that they are eminently qualified for such as parking warden, tea boy &c, as they are, on the whole, an over-empowered bunch of wasters.
The prosecution rests, m'lud.
Firstly, at a previous station many moons ago, I had my car broken into on base, in the same evening as a number of other livers-in had numerous items stolen. The garages are not 100yds from RAFP station and armed personnel. I reported the stuff gone, as did the others, not a dickie bird. Fine, bad luck, I thought.
Some days later, had the displeasure to share my lunch break with a number RAFP from home station and A. N. Other. Took about 20mins of listening to them bemoaning that they were only allowed to use their speed camera on base, and various other inter-station speed camera bragging, until I politely inquired about leads on my stuff. (Let's not forget this is a base with armed guards, several personal, and an extremely large inventory of expensive aeroplanes- I would have thought that unauthorsied intrusion, theft, and damage to property were fairly important cases for these people.) No leads alas, still, caught OC Admin doing 22 MPH the other day! Ha ha. To$$ers.
When I had the bad luck luck to draw orderly officer duty during a large officers' mess function, I completed my task of the key check in the guardroom. In the guardroom I found SNCO RAFP with a number of his civvy mates. When I casually inquired if they were having some sort of police party, they said no no, just invited the civvies along so, if there is any trouble at the function, we can get a proper criminal convinction rather than a slap on the wrist from the Staish. Good, thanks for that, lads.
Another one. When going away on short overseas detachment to benign EU country, we had to have the obligatory Int brief from SNCO Police. (A different one to that described above) On congregating in the agreed lecture theatre, no policeman to be found, and after 20 mins, still no-one turned up. Decided to de-camp to police station (as they weren't answering the phone). On arrival RAFP Sgt T. Osser, 'explains' to Sqn Ldr IC detachment that, as brief contains classified material he couldn't possibly remove it from the police station. Never mind that he agreed to the original meeting place and never said anything about a problem, he then admitted, after heavy 'questioning' from said furious Sqn Ldr, that in fact he couldn't be bothered to get himself across camp as it was raining and he knew we'd turn up at the Cop Shop in the end! Unbelievable.
These indescribables should be put out to pasture where they can do other jobs that they are eminently qualified for such as parking warden, tea boy &c, as they are, on the whole, an over-empowered bunch of wasters.
The prosecution rests, m'lud.
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Firstly, at a previous station many moons ago, I had my car broken into on base, in the same evening as a number of other livers-in had numerous items stolen. The garages are not 100yds from RAFP station and armed personnel. I reported the stuff gone, as did the others, not a dickie bird. Fine, bad luck, I thought.
I mean an investigation of any kind is the collection and colation of information. Without that the investigation stalls.
Did they find fingerprints? Have any witnesses? If you have no leads then you cannot waste time trying to make some up just to apease the complainant. The sad fact is that some crimes will never be solved due to lack of evidence.
As for Civ Pol being on station, did the function contain civillians as well?
I ask as many an incident has occured on camp by non-service visitors and the SNCO may be seen as prudent in asking Civ Pol to stick around just in case. As for them dealing with service personnel, on base, sorry it would never happen, as we retain primacy in that respect unless of course it was a serious civil offence (murder, rape etc) and we would offer it to them to deal.
As for the SNCO who couldnt be bothered to visit you, well if that is true then there is no excuse. It shows a lack of interest and professionalisim.
It seems that from a few incidents your opinion has been clouded on our trade. Which is has to be said is very narrow minded.
As people have previously mentioned, every trade has the 'rotten apples' and the 'good eggs' and just because I have met some other trades and indeed officers who are a complete waste of space, does not mean that I am ignorant enough to think that their whole trades/branches are like that.
caught OC Admin doing 22 MPH
If you can't maintain discipline, then how do you expect the troops under you to act. Leading by example springs to mind.
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If you can't maintain discipline, then how do you expect the troops under you to act. Leading by example springs to mind.
Back to the old 'few bad apples' is it?
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Sorry Uber Snowdrop, for upsetting you there. Addressing a few of your points:
EVIDENCE
The RAFP didn't even try to collect any from the car, and my statement was the only thing they took. (which took ages because the uneducated oik kept trying to correct my English, so I first had to teach him the language)
CIVVIES AT EVENTS
To my knowledge there were only 1 or 2 civvies at the whole event, and they were civvy MOs from the med centre. Trust me, problems involving those individuals were not in the minds of the RAFP bod I spoke to. As to RAFP retaining primacy, now I'm stumped. If the civ pol could do nothing I know not why they were asked to attend.
RULES &C
I agree wholeheartedly that rules are there to be followed, no matter who you are. But I think it may be you who missed my point. If you agree that limited resources must be directed at the most important problems (do you?) then I'm sure you will agree that speed checks on a base with not one speed-related accident recorded in my time there takes a far second place to solving a known and regular intrusion/theft problem. My stuff being stolen, I was told, was merely one of a host of incidents involving off-base people coming on-base and committing theft and/or vandalism. So why are 3 plod (out of around 4 on station at one time) stood on the main drag in their nice fluro vests radar-gunning personnel? My point is that there are more pressing concerns for these people to be addressing.
I cannot help developing an impression on MY exposure to the RAFP can I? If the guys I have dealt with have given a bad impression of their ilk, that is not my doing. I am more than willing to admit that there are wasters in every branch, my own is no exception and I could list many.
However, it is the overall impression we are dealing with here. In my experience OC RAFP on a station is usually a very decent fellow/lass trying to do an honest job with far too few resources. Unfortunately for him/her, the type of people attracted into the RAFP NCO role are part of this poor resource in my opinion. They seem to me to be the sort of person who finds speed cameras extremely interesting, and is inexplicably excited by the prospect of pi$$ing someone off.
I'm sure, and I do hope, that there are some decent folk in the RAFP, and not just the officers, but please take the powers away from those who are not fit to hold them.
Just as you have an opinion of aircrew fostered by the encounters with enebriated vandals, or drunk-drivers &c, I have an impression of RAFP. I apologise if this seems narrow minded but each time I move to a new station and am prepared to give the new bunch a fair go of it, invariably I am let down by the same attitudes.
And just for the record, drunk drivers should be hung, drawn and quatered. I am not at all seeking to justify their actions in this forum and such miscreants deserve the full force of the law.
EVIDENCE
The RAFP didn't even try to collect any from the car, and my statement was the only thing they took. (which took ages because the uneducated oik kept trying to correct my English, so I first had to teach him the language)
CIVVIES AT EVENTS
To my knowledge there were only 1 or 2 civvies at the whole event, and they were civvy MOs from the med centre. Trust me, problems involving those individuals were not in the minds of the RAFP bod I spoke to. As to RAFP retaining primacy, now I'm stumped. If the civ pol could do nothing I know not why they were asked to attend.
RULES &C
I agree wholeheartedly that rules are there to be followed, no matter who you are. But I think it may be you who missed my point. If you agree that limited resources must be directed at the most important problems (do you?) then I'm sure you will agree that speed checks on a base with not one speed-related accident recorded in my time there takes a far second place to solving a known and regular intrusion/theft problem. My stuff being stolen, I was told, was merely one of a host of incidents involving off-base people coming on-base and committing theft and/or vandalism. So why are 3 plod (out of around 4 on station at one time) stood on the main drag in their nice fluro vests radar-gunning personnel? My point is that there are more pressing concerns for these people to be addressing.
I cannot help developing an impression on MY exposure to the RAFP can I? If the guys I have dealt with have given a bad impression of their ilk, that is not my doing. I am more than willing to admit that there are wasters in every branch, my own is no exception and I could list many.
However, it is the overall impression we are dealing with here. In my experience OC RAFP on a station is usually a very decent fellow/lass trying to do an honest job with far too few resources. Unfortunately for him/her, the type of people attracted into the RAFP NCO role are part of this poor resource in my opinion. They seem to me to be the sort of person who finds speed cameras extremely interesting, and is inexplicably excited by the prospect of pi$$ing someone off.
I'm sure, and I do hope, that there are some decent folk in the RAFP, and not just the officers, but please take the powers away from those who are not fit to hold them.
Just as you have an opinion of aircrew fostered by the encounters with enebriated vandals, or drunk-drivers &c, I have an impression of RAFP. I apologise if this seems narrow minded but each time I move to a new station and am prepared to give the new bunch a fair go of it, invariably I am let down by the same attitudes.
And just for the record, drunk drivers should be hung, drawn and quatered. I am not at all seeking to justify their actions in this forum and such miscreants deserve the full force of the law.
Last edited by FJ2ME; 25th Apr 2005 at 11:58.
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FJ2ME, far from upsetting me, I just like a debate.
Which means Civ Pol would (should have been) be dealing with your case. The suspicion of local people means we wouldnt deal with it, unless we caught them in the act.
Statements do take a long time if they are done properly, the recording of which is a two way 'interview'. To achive the aim of the statement serveral parts have to be included, most of which do not sound like they are part of the Queen's English.
If you feel that the NCO recording the statement was not upto scratch, you can always write it yourself. Remember it is your statement. We only write is as we (should) know what we need to get into the statement from the legal aspect.
Well then it sounds like they were in for a 'brew' and a joke was being made. Civil Police visit PHQ's regulary for liason visits and for the dissemination of local intellegence. Its nice to know the faces you may have to call upon on day.
Limited resources indeed. You want us to deal with the more important issues, like perhaps personnel walking on the grass? Or is it anything that does not impeed you in your day to day activities?
Who is to say what is important? Speed checks are important to a degree and it could be argued that there were no speeding related accidents at your Unit due to the fact the Speed checks were acting as a deterrant.
Which comes under one of our main roles...The prevention and detection of crime.
Now please bear in mind, that we have limited resources, 90% of our day to day duties are set in stone by OC Police or his representative. Therefore if we get told we have to do say, speed checks, or indeed any other 'non-important' duty then it takes us away from patrolling the rest of the camp for that duration. The bottom line is that we cannot be everywhere at once, no matter if we would like to be.
This of course is likely to get worse as we get smaller, but still have all the jobs we used to do with say 5-7 on shift but now with 1 or 2 NCO's.
And I reitterate, most of the 'menial' tasks we are given to do come from OC Police, we are just the face of his direction. So you can conclude that he thinks that perticular task is important at that time.
I myself like to use a bit of common when it comes down to minor offences and usually find that it works wonders. However I would be quite with in my rights to report someone for an absolute offence , and the attitude of the offender bears a lot on my decision.
Again, narrow minded. I know a vast amount of people from my time in this trade and I can say, minus a few exceptions, that they are intellegent, dedicated and professional. Personally I couldn't care less about speed cameras, what I find interesting is people. I don't go out of my way to piss them off, I am here to assist the majority and deal with the minority.
My stuff being stolen, I was told, was merely one of a host of incidents involving off-base people coming on-base
(which took ages because the uneducated oik kept trying to correct my English, so I first had to teach him the language)
If you feel that the NCO recording the statement was not upto scratch, you can always write it yourself. Remember it is your statement. We only write is as we (should) know what we need to get into the statement from the legal aspect.
To my knowledge there were only 1 or 2 civvies at the whole event
limited resources must be directed at the most important problems
Who is to say what is important? Speed checks are important to a degree and it could be argued that there were no speeding related accidents at your Unit due to the fact the Speed checks were acting as a deterrant.
Which comes under one of our main roles...The prevention and detection of crime.
Now please bear in mind, that we have limited resources, 90% of our day to day duties are set in stone by OC Police or his representative. Therefore if we get told we have to do say, speed checks, or indeed any other 'non-important' duty then it takes us away from patrolling the rest of the camp for that duration. The bottom line is that we cannot be everywhere at once, no matter if we would like to be.
This of course is likely to get worse as we get smaller, but still have all the jobs we used to do with say 5-7 on shift but now with 1 or 2 NCO's.
And I reitterate, most of the 'menial' tasks we are given to do come from OC Police, we are just the face of his direction. So you can conclude that he thinks that perticular task is important at that time.
I myself like to use a bit of common when it comes down to minor offences and usually find that it works wonders. However I would be quite with in my rights to report someone for an absolute offence , and the attitude of the offender bears a lot on my decision.
Unfortunately for him/her, the type of people attracted into the RAFP NCO role are part of this poor resource in my opinion
Last edited by Uber Snowdrop; 25th Apr 2005 at 13:07.
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As for stopping a suspected drink driver leaving the unit...well you can look at in two ways. If you know that he/she has been drinking then he should be stopped if possible otherwise the NCO will be condoning the offence. On the otherhand whilst on unit the offence is contary to orders and although Harry won't be chuffed its not a hanging offence, outside the gates it becomes a civil offence and I am sure I dont have to explain the ramifications of being stopped by Civ Pol after a 'tip off'.
Last edited by JessTheDog; 25th Apr 2005 at 15:37.
I see with regret that some people are still bashing the RAFP. I wonder if FJ2ME has ever done an OO at Lyneham. Did Guard Commander for a couple of weeks, had an exceedingly good working relationship with the RAFP. The 3 Guard Cdrs main gripe was that part of the OO's duties were to pay a visit to the Guard Force a couple of times during their duty. 3 Grd Cdr's saw 3 OO's in 4 weeks. Main excuse, couldn't be bothered. SWO then OCA dealt with. As I have stated we can all come up with tales of woe for any trade. It would be nice to hear about some of the better tales from the different trades.
On several occasions, as VC10 DetCo in Incirlik, I was very grateful indeed to our friendly RAFP for interceding when the steroid-chewing iron-pumping gun-toting red-necked crew-cut uberfascists masquerading as Spam cops had any dealings with one of our lot....
Funniest ever was the 'Indecent Exposure' incident. One of the groundcrew ladies was returning (on foot) from some function with a colleague when she tripped and stumbled into a tree, covering her blouse in sticky buds. Perhaps hardly surprising for a lady with an obviously high centre of gravity and reduced stability caused by an affluence of incohol..... So she decided to remove said blouse, under which she was wearing a black lacy bra of epic proportions. Halfway through removing the buds from her blouse, along came Dimwit and Thicko in their patrol car......Whoo-ooh - "Freezanassoom the position.....!"
The RAFP were true ladies and gents compared to the mindless, robotic cretins of the Spam cops.
Funniest ever was the 'Indecent Exposure' incident. One of the groundcrew ladies was returning (on foot) from some function with a colleague when she tripped and stumbled into a tree, covering her blouse in sticky buds. Perhaps hardly surprising for a lady with an obviously high centre of gravity and reduced stability caused by an affluence of incohol..... So she decided to remove said blouse, under which she was wearing a black lacy bra of epic proportions. Halfway through removing the buds from her blouse, along came Dimwit and Thicko in their patrol car......Whoo-ooh - "Freezanassoom the position.....!"
The RAFP were true ladies and gents compared to the mindless, robotic cretins of the Spam cops.
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Got stopped once by a RAF Copper for riding the wrong way up a one way cul-de-sac on Stn!!
Took me 10 minutes before I worked out I was in the middle of an almighty wind-up!
No bad memories to post I am afraid.
Took me 10 minutes before I worked out I was in the middle of an almighty wind-up!
No bad memories to post I am afraid.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Bad one first, at Nav School the night security round was done by an RAFP and an RAF. As the RAFP was regular they got in the habit of nicking the odd Mars bar from the coffee bar. The 'even' bar was given to the RAF guy thus implicating him.
Eventually the losses became unsustainable and we had to lock the shop. Sad but true.
Now good news. The latest Strike Command bulletin features Force Protection and gives the RAFP a very good write up and doing a job at least as sharp as the Regt.
Eventually the losses became unsustainable and we had to lock the shop. Sad but true.
Now good news. The latest Strike Command bulletin features Force Protection and gives the RAFP a very good write up and doing a job at least as sharp as the Regt.