RAF Police, waste of space or not?
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This thread has just proved something I have believed for a long time, we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. If we just stood back and let you all get on with your little games then I am sure the complaints would flood in about security standards etc but when we do carry out our tasking to the best of our ability then we get complaints about being over zealous and jobs worths. I for one am the type of guy that will when the situation allows give someone a second chance, and I wish to build ridges with the other members of my RAF community as I am sure is the attitude of most of my colleagues. So next time a copper wonders into your section it may just be to sit and have a brew and nothing else, sometimes it is good to meet some new people. We don't always want to catch you guys out. That will be me with my community copper head on.
As it is, with the new DVLA system if you haven't got a new excise licence before the old one runs out, and you have not made a SORN, they automatically send out your 80 quid fine and possible further action.
The following quote from DVLA explains:-
"The law allows 14 days from the date the licence was due in which to relicense. SORN declarations are only required if the vehicle is going to be kept off road beyond this period. However, if the vehicle is used or kept on a public road it must display a valid tax disc."
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Yes, a bit intercine.
Here are some good and bad stories:
Cpl Nelson, about 50 foot up a giraffe day after day keeping a watch over 4-Vs in Malaysia. RMAF Auxiliaries sheltering in the shade down below. If the said Cpl had been shot and fall I am sure the Aux would have legged it. He had a first rate view point if a little weak in cover from view.
Blue lamp taxies in Cyprus and Malta.
The RAFP greeting our co-pilot returning to Akrotiri on the nigh be fore a month long driving ban - "Would you like to park your car over there Sir and we'll run you up to the mess.?"
It was probably the same rozzer who had nicked him 4-weeks earlier driving the short way round the roundabout. The message there is that these guys are there all the time I get used to the wall-paper and spot the out of ordinary.
And then there was the RAFP A/Cpl/U who shot the aircraft he was guarding with an air pistol or the other one who threatened to shoot one with his pistol.
Or the RAFP who ejected a Gp Capt CMO from a no-lone-zone and was awarded 14 days .....
immediate leave.
Or all the RAFP who did not stand on ceremony during QRA alerts and would obliginly park the Q vehicle and ensure the apron was clear - except the one that did not park Jpohn Pack's car of course <g>.
On balance a long, lonely job, well done.
Here are some good and bad stories:
Cpl Nelson, about 50 foot up a giraffe day after day keeping a watch over 4-Vs in Malaysia. RMAF Auxiliaries sheltering in the shade down below. If the said Cpl had been shot and fall I am sure the Aux would have legged it. He had a first rate view point if a little weak in cover from view.
Blue lamp taxies in Cyprus and Malta.
The RAFP greeting our co-pilot returning to Akrotiri on the nigh be fore a month long driving ban - "Would you like to park your car over there Sir and we'll run you up to the mess.?"
It was probably the same rozzer who had nicked him 4-weeks earlier driving the short way round the roundabout. The message there is that these guys are there all the time I get used to the wall-paper and spot the out of ordinary.
And then there was the RAFP A/Cpl/U who shot the aircraft he was guarding with an air pistol or the other one who threatened to shoot one with his pistol.
Or the RAFP who ejected a Gp Capt CMO from a no-lone-zone and was awarded 14 days .....
immediate leave.
Or all the RAFP who did not stand on ceremony during QRA alerts and would obliginly park the Q vehicle and ensure the apron was clear - except the one that did not park Jpohn Pack's car of course <g>.
On balance a long, lonely job, well done.
Fat Albert
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If you break the rules then you are responsible for the consequences that you bring on yourself.
We in the military are not above the law and in general the same laws apply inside the wire as outside (speeding, tax discs, theft etc).
The RAFP do an excellent job both on units and in the MQ patch even though they are often very restricted in their authority. I believe they should have the full authority to clamp cars that are untaxed and more seriously to conduct breath tests.
IF YOU DON`T BREAK THE LAW IT SHOULDN`T WORRY YOU
The parking problems at Lyneham are much aggravated by the large number of lazy people who insist on driving in from the blocks or from MQs. This cannot be blamed on the police, try walking or cycling you might even find its good for you.
We in the military are not above the law and in general the same laws apply inside the wire as outside (speeding, tax discs, theft etc).
The RAFP do an excellent job both on units and in the MQ patch even though they are often very restricted in their authority. I believe they should have the full authority to clamp cars that are untaxed and more seriously to conduct breath tests.
IF YOU DON`T BREAK THE LAW IT SHOULDN`T WORRY YOU
The parking problems at Lyneham are much aggravated by the large number of lazy people who insist on driving in from the blocks or from MQs. This cannot be blamed on the police, try walking or cycling you might even find its good for you.
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Maybe I should have chosen a different title.
RAF Police, good, bad or indifferent.
It would have given all the chance to tell tales of experiences with our much abused plod, be it good, bad or just plain amusing. It isn't a case of disgruntled techie lashing out, if I was going to do that then I would head straight for the lyneham thread or the lean thread.
By the way I cannot condone the sale of aircraft parts on e-bay, it's hard enough to get hold of some as it is without them being flogged off. As with the parking issue, if the livers in didn't drive all of 1/2 mile to work (all ranks included) then maybe the problem wouldn't be so bad. I for one don't use my car unless I have to pick up or drop off kit, it's just lazy and could go to explain the high number of fitness test failures.
So lets drop the tax issue, it has been done to death now, and bring on the tales (i'm sure the RAFP have many they would like to add).
RAF Police, good, bad or indifferent.
It would have given all the chance to tell tales of experiences with our much abused plod, be it good, bad or just plain amusing. It isn't a case of disgruntled techie lashing out, if I was going to do that then I would head straight for the lyneham thread or the lean thread.
By the way I cannot condone the sale of aircraft parts on e-bay, it's hard enough to get hold of some as it is without them being flogged off. As with the parking issue, if the livers in didn't drive all of 1/2 mile to work (all ranks included) then maybe the problem wouldn't be so bad. I for one don't use my car unless I have to pick up or drop off kit, it's just lazy and could go to explain the high number of fitness test failures.
So lets drop the tax issue, it has been done to death now, and bring on the tales (i'm sure the RAFP have many they would like to add).
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We had the night policeman in the dump use our urn to boil his eggs in. Good iniative, shame about the food poisoning for everyone else.
Who can forget turd surfing due to the presents the dogs left around.
And the John Wayne playing with his gun, shooting a hole through our PIT board.
Mind you they were all doing a crap job they I would not want to do. If I was that bored, I'm sure I would have blown something up.
Who can forget turd surfing due to the presents the dogs left around.
And the John Wayne playing with his gun, shooting a hole through our PIT board.
Mind you they were all doing a crap job they I would not want to do. If I was that bored, I'm sure I would have blown something up.
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Ladies & gentlemen of this forum, my colleagues & I read some rather inaccurate and quite damning posts regarding our humble trade.
I however, after reading the last page on this topic, have been relieved to find out the RAF has some fantastic, level headed folk in it ranks.
Our people on the ground work hard, by regulations made by people in their ivory towers. Some we agree with others we don't. It is often with reluctance we carry out the mundane, sometimes petty tasks that put you, the general armed forces populus, on the spot. For the good folk, it can be an inconvenience and we apologise. To the scrotes who can't be bothered, tough. Sort your admin & attitude out or expect more.
I offer apologies for those of you who have genuine reason to feel agrieved. Hopefully our scrotes will get their come-upance!
I hope we, as a trade, fulfill our given role within the armed forces and aim our efforts more at the changing, dangerous world around us, and less at keeping discipline within the ranks.
Take care one and all and believe me when I say, I'm PROUD TO SERVE
One last thing if I may, Pontius, do you have any more gen to the no lone zone tale?
I however, after reading the last page on this topic, have been relieved to find out the RAF has some fantastic, level headed folk in it ranks.
Our people on the ground work hard, by regulations made by people in their ivory towers. Some we agree with others we don't. It is often with reluctance we carry out the mundane, sometimes petty tasks that put you, the general armed forces populus, on the spot. For the good folk, it can be an inconvenience and we apologise. To the scrotes who can't be bothered, tough. Sort your admin & attitude out or expect more.
I offer apologies for those of you who have genuine reason to feel agrieved. Hopefully our scrotes will get their come-upance!
I hope we, as a trade, fulfill our given role within the armed forces and aim our efforts more at the changing, dangerous world around us, and less at keeping discipline within the ranks.
Take care one and all and believe me when I say, I'm PROUD TO SERVE
One last thing if I may, Pontius, do you have any more gen to the no lone zone tale?
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aes
It wasn't my intention to start or engage in a my trade is better than yours, willy waving competition. As you can see I have realised the title for the thread should/could have been better selected. I'm not one of these scrotes who can't be bothered, quite the opposite in fact. If I can abide by the law and avoid unwanted problems then why can't everyone else? Please feel free to add any amusing, or otherwise, tales to this ever expanding thread. I know there are many out there.
It wasn't my intention to start or engage in a my trade is better than yours, willy waving competition. As you can see I have realised the title for the thread should/could have been better selected. I'm not one of these scrotes who can't be bothered, quite the opposite in fact. If I can abide by the law and avoid unwanted problems then why can't everyone else? Please feel free to add any amusing, or otherwise, tales to this ever expanding thread. I know there are many out there.
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I believe they should have the full authority to clamp cars that are untaxed and more seriously to conduct breath tests.
One has to ask - why? The RAFP are not CivPol and I don't believe that even the Old Bill clamp untaxed cars!
There are some excellent examples of good practice - the Halton partnership with a joint manned RAF/civvie police station is one - and there are many ways to introduce chaos into a finely balanced system that relies on the good common sense of the RAFP and a co-operative attitude from the rest of the blue suiters and dependents.
Keep up the good work of the RAFP behind the wire with regard to the Manual of Air Force Law and Queens' Regulations and limit the time outside the wire to clearly defined occasions and purposes concerned primarily with safety and security.
As driving under the influence of alcohol is a criminal offence, any miscreant should be reported to CivPol. Why introduce another link into the chain with the potential for causing procedural problems that could jeopardise a prosecution? There is perhaps a case for random breathalyser checks on the gate into work but not outside of the wire as a parallel system.
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Occasionally at Lyneham the CivPol are invited to wait at the exit gate, normally if there is a function in progress. RAFP observe vehicles leaving location of said function and radio through to the gate. Vehicle is pulled over, and if required the driver is breath tested. All I can say is serves them right for drinking & driving, especially as there is the mess (SNCOs or Os, ATAF or bunk in with a liver in). Even more so if they are heading to quaters. There is no need to do it SO DON'T (drink & drive that is)! An example of RAFP & CivPol working in perfect harmony to remove idiots from our roads, and it works.
In 35 years, I only came across one RAFP who was a right pain - every other encounter was entirely fine. Whether looking after our a/c, sorting out the thieving little git caught red-handed whilst I was doing OO once - or whatever.
The Plod who was a right pain had been tasked to guard the OM at Waddington when we had a conference there. Everyone was living in surplus MQs for the night and walked across to the Mess. But this Hitlerchen decided to bark out the official challenge to everyone who walked past rather than being reasonable - what's wrong with "IDs please, gents?" However, it was rather amusing watching him trying to read the ID card he'd just told a colleague to place on the ground as, trying to juggle dog leash, torch and ID card he wasn't sure which of the 3 to occupy his 2 hands with..... Aircrew being aircrew, we decide to walk past at 30 second intervals!
So stop this silly Plod-bashing; sure there'll be the odd d*ckhead, but a quiet call to the senior Plod SNCO normally gets things sorted if needs be.
And if anyone reading this gets pinched for having an untaxed car - tough. You can find sympathy in that well-known spot - in the dictionary between '$hit' and 'syphilis' and closer to 'Squadron Leader' than 'sorry'!
The Plod who was a right pain had been tasked to guard the OM at Waddington when we had a conference there. Everyone was living in surplus MQs for the night and walked across to the Mess. But this Hitlerchen decided to bark out the official challenge to everyone who walked past rather than being reasonable - what's wrong with "IDs please, gents?" However, it was rather amusing watching him trying to read the ID card he'd just told a colleague to place on the ground as, trying to juggle dog leash, torch and ID card he wasn't sure which of the 3 to occupy his 2 hands with..... Aircrew being aircrew, we decide to walk past at 30 second intervals!
So stop this silly Plod-bashing; sure there'll be the odd d*ckhead, but a quiet call to the senior Plod SNCO normally gets things sorted if needs be.
And if anyone reading this gets pinched for having an untaxed car - tough. You can find sympathy in that well-known spot - in the dictionary between '$hit' and 'syphilis' and closer to 'Squadron Leader' than 'sorry'!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Moving to a different police force, different country and arguably different rules.
One night, drunken officer departs the club and heads across the car park to get a coat and thence travel home - not in his own car - at least that was his story.
As he approached his car, keys in hand, the local politzi arrested him.
OTOH the Lyneham incident mentioned above might have been handled differently. Letting drunks drive out of the camp was questionable in the first place; why not stop them inside the camp. Letting them be booked, and reported in the press, by civpol was not exactly a good example of community relations at work all round.
Why not an obvious police presence at the venue involved, civpol too, THAT would have driven the message home far more tactfully and any idiot could then have been tested before they even left th ecar park.
One night, drunken officer departs the club and heads across the car park to get a coat and thence travel home - not in his own car - at least that was his story.
As he approached his car, keys in hand, the local politzi arrested him.
OTOH the Lyneham incident mentioned above might have been handled differently. Letting drunks drive out of the camp was questionable in the first place; why not stop them inside the camp. Letting them be booked, and reported in the press, by civpol was not exactly a good example of community relations at work all round.
Why not an obvious police presence at the venue involved, civpol too, THAT would have driven the message home far more tactfully and any idiot could then have been tested before they even left th ecar park.
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If you is stupid enough to drink and drive then you should be man enough to take the consequences. As for giving fair warning I think a white astra with a shiny band around it, in a prominent position, should be deterrent enough. But credit to Lynehams plod, one year at the GE's bash, they went out and put warning notices onto every car in the vacinity. I think it worked. Even the idea of breath testing someone before they leave the carpark, with an obvious plod presence, is pretty much the same as at the main gate. The offence has been commited, take the punishment and learn from it. How about a simple "IF YOU'VE HAD A DRINK DON'T DRIVE" it ain't hard.
On the exit to Lyneham you have to travel about 50 yards after the exit gate before you get to the junction with the main road. This then negates the possibility of drunk drivers making it onto the road.
On the exit to Lyneham you have to travel about 50 yards after the exit gate before you get to the junction with the main road. This then negates the possibility of drunk drivers making it onto the road.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The suggestion of stopping at the car park rather than the main gate has more advantages than stopping at the main gate.
The idiot might not make it to the main gate and cause harm to himself.
The road out of camp may be used by the sensible ones walking home and they are at risk from the idiots.
There is more chance of keeping the 'good news' in house.
I am really suggesting that duty of care should come first, rather than letting the offence move off base - 50 yards exit to public road - which I am sceptical about having walked it many times.
I would certainly rather not mix it with a drunk driver between mess and pickup.
The idiot might not make it to the main gate and cause harm to himself.
The road out of camp may be used by the sensible ones walking home and they are at risk from the idiots.
There is more chance of keeping the 'good news' in house.
I am really suggesting that duty of care should come first, rather than letting the offence move off base - 50 yards exit to public road - which I am sceptical about having walked it many times.
I would certainly rather not mix it with a drunk driver between mess and pickup.
A tale of 'clamping'. At a rotary trg base in Shropshire the Stn Cdr in the early 90's (now an AM) decided to have the RAFP clamp anyone who was illegally parked, in particular anyone who parked near accommodation, armoury etc. The punishment, probably illegal, was a donation to the CO's fund to have your car released. Young pilot on a 6 month course arrives and duly parks his car outside the armoury for 30 mins. Car clamped, tells RAFP he is not paying the release fee, Stn Cdr says ok, I am not issuing you with a car pass. You can park your car in the village and walk to camp for the next 6 months. CO's fund £25 richer 30 secs later.
P.S. I have relatives who were badly injured by a drink driver. Only one message Zero tolerance and put them all off the road for a long time.
P.S. I have relatives who were badly injured by a drink driver. Only one message Zero tolerance and put them all off the road for a long time.
Fat Albert
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Sorry , I may have been a little ambiguous, I was reffering to the RAFP being able to use the breathlyser with the bounds of a unit. If a positive sample is given then the civil police could be invited to take over
Outside the wire it is clearly a Civil Police issue.
The civil police do clamp untaxed vehicles as several people found to their cost in the MQ patch at Lyneham about 18 Months ago.
Outside the wire it is clearly a Civil Police issue.
The civil police do clamp untaxed vehicles as several people found to their cost in the MQ patch at Lyneham about 18 Months ago.
Ah, the memories of Police Flt at Boulmer: The Copper who went to get pizzas in Alnwick on night shift illegally (allegedly) and in his rush to get them back still warm put the car into a field upside down (he got out okay albeit covered in pizza!).
And the other one who drove a brand new car (the replacement for the above) through a ford usually only passable by Land Rover (and it was this time too) who very, very nearly made it out the other side but didn't as the engine went bang (you can't compress water). Said car was up to its windows in the raging torrent........
How we laughed......
And the other one who drove a brand new car (the replacement for the above) through a ford usually only passable by Land Rover (and it was this time too) who very, very nearly made it out the other side but didn't as the engine went bang (you can't compress water). Said car was up to its windows in the raging torrent........
How we laughed......
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Although the RAF Police did use the breath test kits in RAFG, the were not routinely issued within the UK and then fully withdrawn sometime ago.
One of the major differences between civpol & military cops, is that we can only stop & search on suspicion of certain things, ie drugs or going equiped.
Civpol are allowed to stop folk on suspicion of almost anything.
Scenario:- people leaving major function at the end of the night.
Unless RAF plod have seen the said folk drinking intoxicating liquer, or had reason to speak the the individuals thus being able to smell the intoxicating liquer, or can prove as an alleged expert, through their actions & gait that they've been drinking intoxicating liquer, we cannot stop them from driving their vehicles.
If we were to speak to everyone leaving, then follow them to make sure they weren't going to drive, then happy days.
So going back to letting them drive to main gate to be stopped by civpol, it's a poor solution to a poor scenario.
Invite civpol onto the unit I hear you say. One, civpol don't normally have the manpower to sit at our gates for 2 hours, and second, a lot of Stn Cdrs won't allow them on. He might have some high ranking people on civpol charges by Monday morning otherwise.
There are other ways of doing things, like having a dedicated function car park. Hand your keys on the way in, and sign for them on the way out. To be allowed out of the car park you'll have to have had a close up with the key controller & then again at the car park exit. Drain on manpower, not if it potentially saves lives or careers.
One of the major differences between civpol & military cops, is that we can only stop & search on suspicion of certain things, ie drugs or going equiped.
Civpol are allowed to stop folk on suspicion of almost anything.
Scenario:- people leaving major function at the end of the night.
Unless RAF plod have seen the said folk drinking intoxicating liquer, or had reason to speak the the individuals thus being able to smell the intoxicating liquer, or can prove as an alleged expert, through their actions & gait that they've been drinking intoxicating liquer, we cannot stop them from driving their vehicles.
If we were to speak to everyone leaving, then follow them to make sure they weren't going to drive, then happy days.
So going back to letting them drive to main gate to be stopped by civpol, it's a poor solution to a poor scenario.
Invite civpol onto the unit I hear you say. One, civpol don't normally have the manpower to sit at our gates for 2 hours, and second, a lot of Stn Cdrs won't allow them on. He might have some high ranking people on civpol charges by Monday morning otherwise.
There are other ways of doing things, like having a dedicated function car park. Hand your keys on the way in, and sign for them on the way out. To be allowed out of the car park you'll have to have had a close up with the key controller & then again at the car park exit. Drain on manpower, not if it potentially saves lives or careers.
I seem to recall that exit from RAFG bases on Friday nights used to require 'signing out' at the guardroom - and anyone acting doubtfully was required to hand over their car keys?