EFT PPL Accreditation
How long to convert? Depends upon your progress, attitude and technique...
You may need to complete exercises which you won't have covered before, for example Precautionary Landings, use of radio navigation aids etc. I suspect that you will need to complete your PPL training, convert onto a civil SEP Class aeroplane and reach solo standard. Then dual navigation training; you would not normally fly the landaway trip 'dual then solo' - such military mollycoddling is not a normal feature of PPL training as you have to demonstrate a safe level of visual navigation before being sent off on a solo Qualifying Cross-Country with 2 intermediate landings (not touch and goes as you will need to have your certificate signed). Your navigation proficiency will also be tested during the PPL Skill Test and will include a visual diversion without ATC assistance.
You would probably then fly some pre-Skill Test revision exercises, then, when you've completed all training requirements, take the PPL Skill Test which is about 2.5-3 hours long.
Why would you wish to use an expensive a/c such as the Firefly or Tutor when you can meet all training requirements in a C152 or PA28?
Budget for a total of about £1200 including exam fees, examiners' fees, flying, licence issue cost etc - and you may have some change left over. That's about 8 hours at £75 per hour, £150-ish for the Skill Test Examiner's fee, £149 for the PPL issue fee, perhaps some ground exam fees as well. Don't forget the membership fees which your Club may also charge you - and if you need to take a FRTOL RT practical, that'll also attract a fee....
And take it seriously; PPL flying is not inferior to EFT flying, it is different. Who gets the met and NOTAMs? You do. Who gets the a/c out of the hangar, pre-flights it, cleans the windscreen etc? You do. Who marshalls you - no-one. Who refuels it and puts it back in the hangar? You do!
You may need to complete exercises which you won't have covered before, for example Precautionary Landings, use of radio navigation aids etc. I suspect that you will need to complete your PPL training, convert onto a civil SEP Class aeroplane and reach solo standard. Then dual navigation training; you would not normally fly the landaway trip 'dual then solo' - such military mollycoddling is not a normal feature of PPL training as you have to demonstrate a safe level of visual navigation before being sent off on a solo Qualifying Cross-Country with 2 intermediate landings (not touch and goes as you will need to have your certificate signed). Your navigation proficiency will also be tested during the PPL Skill Test and will include a visual diversion without ATC assistance.
You would probably then fly some pre-Skill Test revision exercises, then, when you've completed all training requirements, take the PPL Skill Test which is about 2.5-3 hours long.
Why would you wish to use an expensive a/c such as the Firefly or Tutor when you can meet all training requirements in a C152 or PA28?
Budget for a total of about £1200 including exam fees, examiners' fees, flying, licence issue cost etc - and you may have some change left over. That's about 8 hours at £75 per hour, £150-ish for the Skill Test Examiner's fee, £149 for the PPL issue fee, perhaps some ground exam fees as well. Don't forget the membership fees which your Club may also charge you - and if you need to take a FRTOL RT practical, that'll also attract a fee....
And take it seriously; PPL flying is not inferior to EFT flying, it is different. Who gets the met and NOTAMs? You do. Who gets the a/c out of the hangar, pre-flights it, cleans the windscreen etc? You do. Who marshalls you - no-one. Who refuels it and puts it back in the hangar? You do!
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Thanks - much appreciated.
The only reason to use a 2-seat aerobatic a/c would be to try and stay as 'military' as possible so IF I get into any of HM Forces I don't learn to many bad habits.
The only reason to use a 2-seat aerobatic a/c would be to try and stay as 'military' as possible so IF I get into any of HM Forces I don't learn to many bad habits.
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NPPL ?
Apologies for bringing this up again!
Does anyone (BEagle?) know about EFT accreditation for the NPPL.
From the website,
University Air Squadron (UAS) and Joint Elementary Flight Training School (JEFTS) pilots who have
successfully passed both the EFT Final Handling Test and the Final Navigation Test shall be credited the
requirement to take the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST. UAS or JEFTS pilots who have only passed one of these
tests shall be credited with the corresponding NPPL Skill Test.
I can't find a time limit. Does this mean then having completed the course all that's required is the land-away and ground exams with no tests?
Sounds easier ? Or might as well do the Skills test and get the full license?
Just had an e-mail from the chap who\'s responsible for the NPPL.
If you have completed EFT, all you need to do to get a NPPL is a 100 nm land-away and the ground exams. There is no time limit on the PNT or FHT exemption for the Nav tesr or Skills test.
Does anyone (BEagle?) know about EFT accreditation for the NPPL.
From the website,
University Air Squadron (UAS) and Joint Elementary Flight Training School (JEFTS) pilots who have
successfully passed both the EFT Final Handling Test and the Final Navigation Test shall be credited the
requirement to take the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST. UAS or JEFTS pilots who have only passed one of these
tests shall be credited with the corresponding NPPL Skill Test.
I can't find a time limit. Does this mean then having completed the course all that's required is the land-away and ground exams with no tests?
Sounds easier ? Or might as well do the Skills test and get the full license?
Just had an e-mail from the chap who\'s responsible for the NPPL.
If you have completed EFT, all you need to do to get a NPPL is a 100 nm land-away and the ground exams. There is no time limit on the PNT or FHT exemption for the Nav tesr or Skills test.
Well, seeing as it was me who wrote the NPPL accreditation in the first place, yes, you're right.
You will have to be checked out to do the solo QX-C, so that will be sufficient test of your proficiency without the need for a further formal test; effectively your just converting to another a/c and regaining recency ('flying currency' in mil-speak) under the supervision of a FI.
You will have to be checked out to do the solo QX-C, so that will be sufficient test of your proficiency without the need for a further formal test; effectively your just converting to another a/c and regaining recency ('flying currency' in mil-speak) under the supervision of a FI.
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Interesting.
I think I'll still go for the full JAR-FCL PPL incase I want to go civvy flying professionally anytime or add Night or IMC.
Why is the full PPL EFT skills test exemption only valid for 2 months and the NPPL indefinitely? Seems like a ploy to get more money from Skills Tests.
I think I'll still go for the full JAR-FCL PPL incase I want to go civvy flying professionally anytime or add Night or IMC.
Why is the full PPL EFT skills test exemption only valid for 2 months and the NPPL indefinitely? Seems like a ploy to get more money from Skills Tests.
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Uber Pilot, if you are looking to learn on a 2 seat aerobatic a/c similar to the tutor or firefly, I would suggest learning on a Robin, BUT they do not have a VP prop, but fixed pitch.
I learnt fixed pitch first and found the transition to the tutor and the VP easy, although I know some people who didn't!
Off the top of my head I cannot think of any 2 seat trainers with VP other than the firefly and tutor. I don't know whether the other Grobs used at flying clubs had VP or are aerobatic. I know the cranwell flying club ones aren't aerobatic.
Also, how old are you? You could apply for a flying scholarship to help aid your training - such as from the Air League or GAPAN where you don't have to be an air cadet.
I guess the time limit is for currency reasons again.
Having done EFT also enables you to get a VP sign off for your PPL.
I learnt fixed pitch first and found the transition to the tutor and the VP easy, although I know some people who didn't!
Off the top of my head I cannot think of any 2 seat trainers with VP other than the firefly and tutor. I don't know whether the other Grobs used at flying clubs had VP or are aerobatic. I know the cranwell flying club ones aren't aerobatic.
Also, how old are you? You could apply for a flying scholarship to help aid your training - such as from the Air League or GAPAN where you don't have to be an air cadet.
I guess the time limit is for currency reasons again.
Having done EFT also enables you to get a VP sign off for your PPL.
Uberpilot - it's because the industry-led NPPL Policy and Steering Committee was able to write the NPPL accreditation under its own National conditions, whereas JAR-FCL accreditation can only be granted by the CAA under JAR-FCL conditions.
In other words, commonsense versus Eurocracy!
In other words, commonsense versus Eurocracy!
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So EFT will sign me off for the differences training on VP props ?
Are there many Firefly 260's knocking about?, I know there's one at Oxford but havn't seen(heard of) many south of London.
Without sounding like an aviation snob, as an engineer as far I can work out VP props aren't that much of an advantage at the low speeds most sheds fly at. Isn't the only reason the Tutor has a VP Prop is to prepare the(few) people that go to Linton? and an extra lever looks better on the quadrant.
As regards scholarship the only one I want at the moment is from HM! For the other ones mentioned, surely you need to want to fly civvy, are they going to pay for someone to train with no commitments ?
Are there many Firefly 260's knocking about?, I know there's one at Oxford but havn't seen(heard of) many south of London.
Without sounding like an aviation snob, as an engineer as far I can work out VP props aren't that much of an advantage at the low speeds most sheds fly at. Isn't the only reason the Tutor has a VP Prop is to prepare the(few) people that go to Linton? and an extra lever looks better on the quadrant.
As regards scholarship the only one I want at the moment is from HM! For the other ones mentioned, surely you need to want to fly civvy, are they going to pay for someone to train with no commitments ?
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VP make aerobatics far easier! With a fixed pitch you have to watch the RPM gague as well so you don't overspeed the engine and it becomes hard work. Basically it makes overstressing the engine harder to do.
Where do you live? I'm a south of london person so drop me a PM i may be able to help
Where do you live? I'm a south of london person so drop me a PM i may be able to help
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Air cadet vigilant aircraft
Having read this thread with interest.
All my mainstream military hours are now well out of date. However I am now a 'B' Cat on the Vigilant light aircraft (sorry 'Motor Glider'). Apparently under JAR, hours on the Vigilant do not count on JAR type PPL unless you have a TMG rating.
Question - does the NPPL allow the hours to be claimed against it and if so how easy is it to convert my nearly out of date JAA PPL across to an NPPL.
Help please Beags or other knowledgable type person
All my mainstream military hours are now well out of date. However I am now a 'B' Cat on the Vigilant light aircraft (sorry 'Motor Glider'). Apparently under JAR, hours on the Vigilant do not count on JAR type PPL unless you have a TMG rating.
Question - does the NPPL allow the hours to be claimed against it and if so how easy is it to convert my nearly out of date JAA PPL across to an NPPL.
Help please Beags or other knowledgable type person
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I did wonder myself about converting viggie hours towards and NPPL, but instead I took the maximum ten towards my PPL. Would be interesting to find out whether I could have got an NPPL for not a lot! Never asked the CAA so am interested as well to find out!
What do you mean by a 'nearly out of date PPL'? Is it your licence which needs to be re-issued at the 5 year point or your SEP Class Rating which is about to expire?
The Vigilant is not a SEP Class aeroplane. Neither is it a SSEA Class aeroplane for NPPL purposes. Either you will need a TMG Class Rating on your JAR-FCL PPL(A) or a NPPL SLMG Class Rating in order to count time on Vigilants; but, at present you would have to maintain both SSEA and SLMG NPPL Class Ratings independently.
I suggest you revalidate your JAR-FCL SEP Class Rating by LPC, then add a TMG Class Rating after which hours flown on either a SEP Class aeroplane or a TMG Class aeroplane will count towards the validity of both Ratings
The Vigilant is not a SEP Class aeroplane. Neither is it a SSEA Class aeroplane for NPPL purposes. Either you will need a TMG Class Rating on your JAR-FCL PPL(A) or a NPPL SLMG Class Rating in order to count time on Vigilants; but, at present you would have to maintain both SSEA and SLMG NPPL Class Ratings independently.
I suggest you revalidate your JAR-FCL SEP Class Rating by LPC, then add a TMG Class Rating after which hours flown on either a SEP Class aeroplane or a TMG Class aeroplane will count towards the validity of both Ratings
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Thanks Beags.
Will start looking at the TMG rating then. Need to get it completed by June / July this year to count it on my 2 year renewal.
Can I presume it will be a case of a General handling test only, oh and the usual payment to the CAA for the privilage.
Will start looking at the TMG rating then. Need to get it completed by June / July this year to count it on my 2 year renewal.
Can I presume it will be a case of a General handling test only, oh and the usual payment to the CAA for the privilage.
Contact Pete Stratten at the BGA and ask about a TMG Examiner. Or the CAA.
The TMG Skill Test should be pretty straightforward; it may require some navigation, but I'm not sure.
And yes, you will have to pay both the Examiner and the CAA. Which, considering you don't have to pay to fly Vigilants, is hardly unreasonable.
The TMG Skill Test should be pretty straightforward; it may require some navigation, but I'm not sure.
And yes, you will have to pay both the Examiner and the CAA. Which, considering you don't have to pay to fly Vigilants, is hardly unreasonable.
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I don't think you have to have a test for a TMG license? It's a case of logbook + £70? It's in an April edition of the gliding bulletin from 2001 or 2002
Last edited by Flik Roll; 12th Apr 2005 at 20:15.
Exemptions from the requirement to pass the TMG Skill Test apply for current UK PPL (SLMG) holders with a defined level of experience. They are clearly stated in LASORS.
Such exemptions do not apply to JAR-FCL PPL holders with SEP Class Ratings.
There is no 'TMG license' (sic) per se - the TMG Class Rating may be included in any JAR-FCL pilot licence.
Such exemptions do not apply to JAR-FCL PPL holders with SEP Class Ratings.
There is no 'TMG license' (sic) per se - the TMG Class Rating may be included in any JAR-FCL pilot licence.
