Ouch
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ALWAYS BROKEN IN WILTS Stated
Very true. You have got this spot on fella. They tried a scam and they got captured. And now there fellow officers are back pedalling like mad to save their bacon.
have not read one credible explanation here for what is as plain as the dark chocolate found in my wifes dark chocolate selection box this Xmas A bunch of guys have used public funds to go on the pop, it's as simple as that so lets stop trying to justify this in the complete b@@locks fashion being offered here
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I think in these days of reduced budgets every effort has to be made to keep costs ALARP. This means that if you can plan to use service accommodation, whether Brit or foreign, you are obliged to do it.
If it is unavoidable and you HAVE to go to that airfield then fair enough. But you are using money that could be better used elsewhere.
If we don't practice good financial governance at the lowest level, where spare money can be recouped to fund other projects, then we can hardly complain when cuts are imposed upon us.
A remember an example at staff course when a civvy accountant breifed us that an A1 airfield resurfaces the same car park every year at a cost of £50,000 because they don't want to lose their car park resurfacing budget.
What happened to the PQs test we are supposed to apply to this type of activity? Unless the organisation is so used to Crown funded jollies they have become so financially corrupt they simply don't care.
If it is unavoidable and you HAVE to go to that airfield then fair enough. But you are using money that could be better used elsewhere.
If we don't practice good financial governance at the lowest level, where spare money can be recouped to fund other projects, then we can hardly complain when cuts are imposed upon us.
A remember an example at staff course when a civvy accountant breifed us that an A1 airfield resurfaces the same car park every year at a cost of £50,000 because they don't want to lose their car park resurfacing budget.
What happened to the PQs test we are supposed to apply to this type of activity? Unless the organisation is so used to Crown funded jollies they have become so financially corrupt they simply don't care.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Beags is right. There are accounting rules and some non-professional routemasters are either afraid to use them or accept what they are given.
In Kef we had one captain, very old and grey who threw a wobbly when we refused to bunk more than 2 to a room. Half the crew went to the Bl** L*g**n where we were 2 to a room. Next morning we reported for the flight - rooms were now available back on base so he DELAYED the sortie and the rest of the exercise with the USAF and we had to return and move out.
Next trip billetting apologised that they were very tight on accommodation that night but . . . Immediately the Sqn Cdr said right Bl** L*g**n - all the crew, I am not splitting the crew.
Next day billetting rang and said they now had enough rooms on the base. No, he said, I have unpacked and I am staying where I am.
Great man Malcolm unfortunately died of C a few years before he could draw his pension. Liked his King Teds too much.
In Kef we had one captain, very old and grey who threw a wobbly when we refused to bunk more than 2 to a room. Half the crew went to the Bl** L*g**n where we were 2 to a room. Next morning we reported for the flight - rooms were now available back on base so he DELAYED the sortie and the rest of the exercise with the USAF and we had to return and move out.
Next trip billetting apologised that they were very tight on accommodation that night but . . . Immediately the Sqn Cdr said right Bl** L*g**n - all the crew, I am not splitting the crew.
Next day billetting rang and said they now had enough rooms on the base. No, he said, I have unpacked and I am staying where I am.
Great man Malcolm unfortunately died of C a few years before he could draw his pension. Liked his King Teds too much.
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If we don't practice good financial governance at the lowest level, where spare money can be recouped to fund other projects, then we can hardly complain when cuts are imposed upon us.
So, we can blame the cancellation of CVF and JSF on the fact that 16 beefers went on a beano to prague....thanks guys.
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Just before I left the service, I had to do a trip to London that involved first class rail travel. The SAC in headquarters suggested that I might want to save money by going second class. My reply? Do Air Officers take second class tickets?...... No........ Well seeing as we have the same entitlement, I will stop when they do.
This was selfish of me I know, but as I have said earlier..... If the rules are wrong, then CHANGE THE RULES!!! Do not criticise these people here for operating within the guidelines. Foolish - Yes / Guilty - NO
This was selfish of me I know, but as I have said earlier..... If the rules are wrong, then CHANGE THE RULES!!! Do not criticise these people here for operating within the guidelines. Foolish - Yes / Guilty - NO
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If it is unavoidable and you HAVE to go to that airfield then fair enough. But you are using money that could be better used elsewhere.
I'm sorry but this day as an outsider my view is there is too much money being spent on making the RAF a PC friendly corporation, than what it should be, an offensive and scary military force who must make sure their members are kept happy enough to die for their country.
It's not, or shouldn't be, a major scandal. I suspect that most Sun readers would view it as a 'non-story' and I'd be surprised if it got a right hand page. It was wrong, it was silly, and in such times of financial stringency and under-funding, it should not be accepted or repeated.
Defending costly perks like this while the Salami slicer gets quite so close to the bone smacks of an almost Neroic ability to play the violin while Rome combusts.
Defending costly perks like this while the Salami slicer gets quite so close to the bone smacks of an almost Neroic ability to play the violin while Rome combusts.
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For crying out loud, they were authorised to do this OTF . It states it in GASOs as an annual requirement. No one has proved that they have mis-used public funds, and if I was 45 Sqn I would be sueing the ar%e of anyone who claims otherwise without cast-iron proof. Hyd3, have you got any proof then? You seem to be happily banging on and casting your aspertions around with great abandon.
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Methinks the point is becoming fogged by an age old internecine fight between those who are not and those who are!
Who are what?
Aircrew or Groundcrew!
Officers or ORs!
You choose but remember the old adage: If you ain't aircrew you should have worked harder at school.
Oh! And by the way, if I am right, this is an aircrew forum so if you ain't go elsewhere to offload your prejudices!
Who are what?
Aircrew or Groundcrew!
Officers or ORs!
You choose but remember the old adage: If you ain't aircrew you should have worked harder at school.
Oh! And by the way, if I am right, this is an aircrew forum so if you ain't go elsewhere to offload your prejudices!
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Who's wasting?
Hyd3 / Lee Jung,
You seem to honestly believe that this was a blatent dash for freedom out of the London FIR to greener pastures, costing thousands of ££'s and potential future hardware!?!
In this great day-and-age of contracted out ac provision, hours are allocated for everything. If the guys went to Prague, they did so on allocated hours that have already/would have been paid anyway for the task.
If the local users had the nouse to kill 6 birds (except the Sun bleeter
!) in one go, then why not?
If anyone is, as it would appear on this thread, dying to get on an OTF, then it's only because all of the fringe/minge benefits (del. as app.) have already gone from the Service - and that's the fault of individual aircrew as well, is it boys ??
In sum: It's a non-story by a BS-ridden rag. If you have any beef with a legit trip - dry your eyes! There has to be some compensation for a life at Cranditz!
Uncle G
You seem to honestly believe that this was a blatent dash for freedom out of the London FIR to greener pastures, costing thousands of ££'s and potential future hardware!?!
In this great day-and-age of contracted out ac provision, hours are allocated for everything. If the guys went to Prague, they did so on allocated hours that have already/would have been paid anyway for the task.
If the local users had the nouse to kill 6 birds (except the Sun bleeter
!) in one go, then why not?If anyone is, as it would appear on this thread, dying to get on an OTF, then it's only because all of the fringe/minge benefits (del. as app.) have already gone from the Service - and that's the fault of individual aircrew as well, is it boys ??
In sum: It's a non-story by a BS-ridden rag. If you have any beef with a legit trip - dry your eyes! There has to be some compensation for a life at Cranditz!
Uncle G
Last edited by Uncle Ginsters; 19th Jan 2005 at 13:11.
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Splash
Beats me how you can survive life looking at the world upside down. Your head seems to be so far up your own ar$e that you can now see through your mouth. Take your teeth out you will see better.
To mention what the forum is all about
"A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here."
Nuff said
You choose but remember the old adage: If you ain't aircrew you should have worked harder at school
Oh! And by the way, if I am right, this is an aircrew forum so if you ain't go elsewhere to offload your prejudices!
"A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here."
Nuff said
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For crying out loud, they were authorised to do this OTF . It states it in GASOs as an annual requirement
I know, I know....they must say the following:
1. It is an annual requirement that all Instructors regardless of their rank or aircraft type MUST complete an out of area beano. This MUST (R) MUST include packing the ritual DJ should you happen across a party or an opportunity to dine someone out.
"They were authorised to do this"...For crying out loud, Grow up.
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Who called the fun police?
You need to get out more/at all, mate.
So now you're implying that the auth's to blame?
Surely not the overall supervisor on the spot knowing all the facts/aims/costs of the trip and it's knock-on effect on the whole 45 Sqn programme? How couldn't he see this blatent abuse of the system when the Sun (and you) can?
Who needs to grow up, now really?
(and no, i'm not on 45
)
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Now that must be a better strike rate than Mike Hegland!
Managed to cast and catch "didnt-try-at-skool" in 1 hour and 7 minutes and him on his first post too! Yeah, Right!!
Managed to cast and catch "didnt-try-at-skool" in 1 hour and 7 minutes and him on his first post too! Yeah, Right!!
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Hyd3
you obviously mis-understand me. I am not talking about an individual authorisor, I am talking about Group Orders. They state that there is an Annual Training Requirement to undertake 1 x Overseas Training Flight per pilot. Therefore the Sqn in question was not doing anything wrong. The fact they pooled their resources and managed to enjoy themselves seems like a great plan to me.
Once again I ask if you have any proof of wrong-doing', or is this your own personal dig? I for one will not 'grow up' if it means I have to stop doing something I am blatantly allowed to do.
you obviously mis-understand me. I am not talking about an individual authorisor, I am talking about Group Orders. They state that there is an Annual Training Requirement to undertake 1 x Overseas Training Flight per pilot. Therefore the Sqn in question was not doing anything wrong. The fact they pooled their resources and managed to enjoy themselves seems like a great plan to me.
Once again I ask if you have any proof of wrong-doing', or is this your own personal dig? I for one will not 'grow up' if it means I have to stop doing something I am blatantly allowed to do.
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Hyd3,
Uncle G makes a very good point you know. You are letting this really get too deep under your skin. Visually, would that we could see you, you must be quite blue in the face. I should calm down or you might just raise your blood pressure beyond acceptable limits for your flying pay to continue (always assuming......following Splash's cast into the banter pool!)
Chill, man! Count up to ten, get some fresh air and move on!
Uncle G makes a very good point you know. You are letting this really get too deep under your skin. Visually, would that we could see you, you must be quite blue in the face. I should calm down or you might just raise your blood pressure beyond acceptable limits for your flying pay to continue (always assuming......following Splash's cast into the banter pool!)
Chill, man! Count up to ten, get some fresh air and move on!
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You are misunderstanding me. I totally agree that we should all conduct an OTF annually....my point is that where does it say ensure to pack your DJ's.
The Orders state you should conduct an OTF annually. Where is the party/Piss up in that. Why does overseas immediately mean a party?
Why not fly there, refuel and come back. You still achieve the OTF. The reason for the OTF is to practice navigation in an unfamiliar environment and to plan and liase with Foreign ATC agencies. It is NOT and should never be an excuse to scam the public purse like this lot have. Once again I quote from Flight Lt Tony Marshall who added sheepishly " Listen, we have to be a bit careful because there is an element of public funding in this trip"
why did they have to be careful? What were they hiding? where is the element of public funding?
The Orders state you should conduct an OTF annually. Where is the party/Piss up in that. Why does overseas immediately mean a party?
Why not fly there, refuel and come back. You still achieve the OTF. The reason for the OTF is to practice navigation in an unfamiliar environment and to plan and liase with Foreign ATC agencies. It is NOT and should never be an excuse to scam the public purse like this lot have. Once again I quote from Flight Lt Tony Marshall who added sheepishly " Listen, we have to be a bit careful because there is an element of public funding in this trip"
why did they have to be careful? What were they hiding? where is the element of public funding?
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Don't believe everything you read...
Hyd3 "Once again I quote from Flight Lt Tony Marshall who added sheepishly " Listen, we have to be a bit careful because there is an element of public funding in this trip" "
I have it on good authority that this was not said, at any point, by anyone. In fact very few of the 'facts' within the story appear to be correct.
Given the Sun's reputation, I am surprised that you are so quick to condemn people who were operating within the rules.
I have it on good authority that this was not said, at any point, by anyone. In fact very few of the 'facts' within the story appear to be correct.
Given the Sun's reputation, I am surprised that you are so quick to condemn people who were operating within the rules.
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"Why does overseas immediately mean a party?"
Hyd3 so are you saying they should have gone to stay in a monastery for the weekend??? Or locked themselves in hotel never to go out until the trip back?
Hyd3 so are you saying they should have gone to stay in a monastery for the weekend??? Or locked themselves in hotel never to go out until the trip back?