Ouch
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Not at all Hyd3,
The guys were on a trainer, overseas, in a decent city.
Would you not pay a few pennies out of your own pocket to make the most of it? (whilst remaining within legal limits, of course).
More to the point, should the RAF not now be focussing its efforts on finding out who the misinformed "RAF insider" is, and dealing with them accordingly ("actions detrimental to the good name and morale of the Service......").
It's very probably a CWL-based newly redundant Trade-Groupee of some discription....Another of Buff's growing army....
Uncle G
The guys were on a trainer, overseas, in a decent city.
Would you not pay a few pennies out of your own pocket to make the most of it? (whilst remaining within legal limits, of course).
More to the point, should the RAF not now be focussing its efforts on finding out who the misinformed "RAF insider" is, and dealing with them accordingly ("actions detrimental to the good name and morale of the Service......").
It's very probably a CWL-based newly redundant Trade-Groupee of some discription....Another of Buff's growing army....
Uncle G
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The other reason for Fri-Mon is aircraft utilisation.
One Friday there is one wave, say A whereas on Monday there are waves A, B and possibly C.
The 'jolly' ac thus flies on sortie A on Friday and A on MOnday and is available for B and C later in the day.
If it flies Mon-Tue it flies out on sortie A and is not available for sories B and C. By the time the domestics have been sorted on Mon evening and Tues it probably returns on sortie B. Three slot have therefore been missed.
It is also good use of ground crew. On Friday the GC stack and start on Mon when the jets return. For Mon-Tue the GC do not stack early.
Ergo it makes operational sense.
Crew duty time is possibly a further factor.
One Friday there is one wave, say A whereas on Monday there are waves A, B and possibly C.
The 'jolly' ac thus flies on sortie A on Friday and A on MOnday and is available for B and C later in the day.
If it flies Mon-Tue it flies out on sortie A and is not available for sories B and C. By the time the domestics have been sorted on Mon evening and Tues it probably returns on sortie B. Three slot have therefore been missed.
It is also good use of ground crew. On Friday the GC stack and start on Mon when the jets return. For Mon-Tue the GC do not stack early.
Ergo it makes operational sense.
Crew duty time is possibly a further factor.
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I have done many times... In fact come to think of it, Ive paid a lot more than my own beer...ended up paying for my own accomm more than once as well.
Last time we had a trainer to the Netherlands we discovered that the allowances didnt cover the cost of the hotel and so we ended up forking out the extra. IIRC we got £50-55 per night for the hotel but that clearly wasn't enough and so we ended up somewhat out of pocket.....worth every penny though !
Whats the crew duty time thing about? Are there crew duty times in the RAF ? We have CRP's in the RN but they are so ridiculous that we never concern ourselves with them. i.e. we are not allowed to fly more than 8 hrs a day or 100 hours a month and everyday we have to have 8 hrs of rest.....and those only count when you are at home base...if detached or on Exercise the Detcom can change the rules (to what, nobody knows)
Last time we had a trainer to the Netherlands we discovered that the allowances didnt cover the cost of the hotel and so we ended up forking out the extra. IIRC we got £50-55 per night for the hotel but that clearly wasn't enough and so we ended up somewhat out of pocket.....worth every penny though !
Whats the crew duty time thing about? Are there crew duty times in the RAF ? We have CRP's in the RN but they are so ridiculous that we never concern ourselves with them. i.e. we are not allowed to fly more than 8 hrs a day or 100 hours a month and everyday we have to have 8 hrs of rest.....and those only count when you are at home base...if detached or on Exercise the Detcom can change the rules (to what, nobody knows)
Last edited by hyd3failure; 17th Jan 2005 at 16:04.
Gentleman Aviator
jayteeto
Gosh! You really know how to live it up mate!
But I spose it's easier as you speak the language.........
my Sqn Cdr refused to pay for a hotel in Newcastle when we went on a landaway
But I spose it's easier as you speak the language.........
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Think you've all missed the point.
Fly Cranditz to Prague and back in a day or do the same thing over a weekend. Aircraft costs the same, fuel costs the same, handling costs the same.
If these guys elected to do it at a weekend and pay thier own expenses then what's the problem?
All work and no play makes jack a very dull boy. Give us a break, I don't see the Sun complaining about the living conditions in a mud-soaked Basrah or the portacabins at Seeb, Ali-Al Salem etc. Still, it's comforting to know that had I murdered someone I would be accommodated in better conditions and have more rights!
Fly Cranditz to Prague and back in a day or do the same thing over a weekend. Aircraft costs the same, fuel costs the same, handling costs the same.
If these guys elected to do it at a weekend and pay thier own expenses then what's the problem?
All work and no play makes jack a very dull boy. Give us a break, I don't see the Sun complaining about the living conditions in a mud-soaked Basrah or the portacabins at Seeb, Ali-Al Salem etc. Still, it's comforting to know that had I murdered someone I would be accommodated in better conditions and have more rights!
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If these guys elected to do it at a weekend and pay thier own expenses then what's the problem?
I totally concur...BUT I have 2 points to make.
1. If they elected to have this weekend bash using the public purse then they should be made to pay the money back.
2. If they did pay out of their own pocket then clearly the RAF are getting paid too much...I quote " They stayed in the Ramada inn (£125 a night) They then ran up a £2000 bill at the posh palffy paslac restaurant. After toasting the queen they chose from tiger prawns, roasted scallops, foie gras and squid followed by young bull steak, venison or salmon then vintage port and cigars.
Phew...... but the best quote has to be from Flight Lt Tony Marshall who added sheepishly " Listen, we have to be a bit careful because there is an element of public funding in this trip" ...ooops
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How "undercover" can this girl have actually been in a party of p----d QFIs who all know each other well?
Am I being unfair questioning who she was with and why the hell she was there?
Am I being unfair questioning who she was with and why the hell she was there?
Being paid too much? I think that most of those there are of a rank high enough that they can afford a decent bash in a nice hotel!
If it had been a group of students however........... the axe swings.........
If it had been a group of students however........... the axe swings.........
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HYD3
I refer the honorable member to the comments of Pontius Nav.
Flying away last thing on Friday and returning first thing on Monday is the best utilisation of a valuable asset.
It's not just better management of the flying programme. We are leasing the mighty "Bling-Air" so it must be fairly cost effective to spend a few quid on hotel rooms if it allows the ac to be flown more back at Cranners and so get our money's worth.
Anyway shame on those pathetic, treachorous hacks in Wapping.
I refer the honorable member to the comments of Pontius Nav.
Flying away last thing on Friday and returning first thing on Monday is the best utilisation of a valuable asset.
It's not just better management of the flying programme. We are leasing the mighty "Bling-Air" so it must be fairly cost effective to spend a few quid on hotel rooms if it allows the ac to be flown more back at Cranners and so get our money's worth.
Anyway shame on those pathetic, treachorous hacks in Wapping.
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As I'd never give a penny to that rag does anyone know what aircraft they're supposed to have flown out on?
Oh and for any of those gutter-press journos reading I as an English taxpayer am glad they found something worthwhile to spend £25,000 on for once. I'd much rather it went on that than some equal-opportunities course that was out-dated even when Martin-Luther King was about, or something equally as similar...
Oh and for any of those gutter-press journos reading I as an English taxpayer am glad they found something worthwhile to spend £25,000 on for once. I'd much rather it went on that than some equal-opportunities course that was out-dated even when Martin-Luther King was about, or something equally as similar...
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I notice that the press doesn't look too closely into the funding of the jobs found in the public sector employment section of the Guardian each week.
No wonder there is a battle over which political party can cut back the most waste.
When the figures are added up the MOD will not be found that wanting (save procurement - but look at the NHS IT system - £30Bn over 10 years). There are plenty of other departments/councils/quangos who leak cash, but it is not PC to look at it too closely.
Once again that makes us an easy target, with no public voice to comment. It makes you sick that those guys made very easily identifiable in the photo are not allowed to publically comment, we have to let the pathetic DCC (N)/(RAF)/(Army) do it 'on our behalf'. The bit£h who used them for her story should not have been given the privacy of having her face blurred.
We should all remember this treatment by the press next time the jackals want a lift in a helo/puff-jet or AT.
Stuff 'em
No wonder there is a battle over which political party can cut back the most waste.
When the figures are added up the MOD will not be found that wanting (save procurement - but look at the NHS IT system - £30Bn over 10 years). There are plenty of other departments/councils/quangos who leak cash, but it is not PC to look at it too closely.
Once again that makes us an easy target, with no public voice to comment. It makes you sick that those guys made very easily identifiable in the photo are not allowed to publically comment, we have to let the pathetic DCC (N)/(RAF)/(Army) do it 'on our behalf'. The bit£h who used them for her story should not have been given the privacy of having her face blurred.
We should all remember this treatment by the press next time the jackals want a lift in a helo/puff-jet or AT.
Stuff 'em
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Excuse a mere civvy intruding on personal grief, but am I the only one that smells something very very fishy here?
RAF crew told to hang around in Egypt while Blair suns himself, offered (instructed to use?) top-notch accommodation, on their return find their 'scandal' splashed all over the newspaper.
Similar but twisted story about skiing.
Another about a 'boozy do' in Prague which just happens to have an undercover Sun reporter in attendance? And don't forget The Sun has supported Labour at the last two elections.
Three stories in one week rubbishing the RAF? Coincidence? Come on chaps, don't be so naive. Something is afoot, this has all the hallmarks of a pre-announcement spin campaign by the government. You are being set up for a big fall.
The polls show that Labour will win the next election with a thumping majority, and they have promised to be 'more radical than ever' and admit that some of their plans will be 'unpopular to some'. The public finances are heading for the buffers, there are 101 things that this government thinks is more important to spend money on than defence of the country, and they've been spending hand over fist - but not on you obviously. The problem is that the British public knows that our Armed Forces are one of the few things that still functions correctly in this country, so to 'change the public culture' (as Minister Hazel Blears stated was their wish the other day) they have to be softened up first.
Perhaps it's time to be afraid?
RAF crew told to hang around in Egypt while Blair suns himself, offered (instructed to use?) top-notch accommodation, on their return find their 'scandal' splashed all over the newspaper.
Similar but twisted story about skiing.
Another about a 'boozy do' in Prague which just happens to have an undercover Sun reporter in attendance? And don't forget The Sun has supported Labour at the last two elections.
Three stories in one week rubbishing the RAF? Coincidence? Come on chaps, don't be so naive. Something is afoot, this has all the hallmarks of a pre-announcement spin campaign by the government. You are being set up for a big fall.
The polls show that Labour will win the next election with a thumping majority, and they have promised to be 'more radical than ever' and admit that some of their plans will be 'unpopular to some'. The public finances are heading for the buffers, there are 101 things that this government thinks is more important to spend money on than defence of the country, and they've been spending hand over fist - but not on you obviously. The problem is that the British public knows that our Armed Forces are one of the few things that still functions correctly in this country, so to 'change the public culture' (as Minister Hazel Blears stated was their wish the other day) they have to be softened up first.
Perhaps it's time to be afraid?
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Whipping Boy's SATCO
One presumes SATCO went to carry the imprest?
Nah... he must have got a branch change - 'cause The Sun says it was 16 pilots
...... and after all The Sun is always right
By the way nice smile Guiness Head
One presumes SATCO went to carry the imprest?
Nah... he must have got a branch change - 'cause The Sun says it was 16 pilots
...... and after all The Sun is always right
By the way nice smile Guiness Head
Smoketoomuch
You really know how to cheer people up!
OTF have been around for years and it is our publicity machine (if was fixed by military techies it would still be working!) that is faulty.
I too, miss those wonderful trips to Berlin. Now that's education!
You really know how to cheer people up!
OTF have been around for years and it is our publicity machine (if was fixed by military techies it would still be working!) that is faulty.
I too, miss those wonderful trips to Berlin. Now that's education!
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Flying away last thing on Friday and returning first thing on Monday is the best utilisation of a valuable asset
How on earth is a super king air 200 a valuable asset?
This thread is following a similar pattern. A well known daily newspaper (the most popular newspaper in the UK and read by the majority (also available in the Officers mess) exposes a scandal whereby RAF Officers are cheating the British public out of their well earned taxes. And then the following day a thread appears on PPUNE and the whole event is defended by similar RAF Officers. Hmmmmm, bit of collaboration going on me thinks...maybe youre all in it...maybe its a massive scandal that youre all trying to hide.....Come on the guys...whats the Scam? How can I get myself on a freebie to Prague/Switzerland/madrid....?
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Crossbow. Methinks you are off to Oman for an EX (or been - not sure on timings) and a little miffed that the Holiday Inn, Salalah is no longer an option since we left a lovely little compound for you to use!
Even I know how you get a good trip and I'm blunt. Get near an aircraft with more than 1 seat!
Even I know how you get a good trip and I'm blunt. Get near an aircraft with more than 1 seat!