Boscastle Rescues

[navibrator]

Heroes

The term heroes is an overused word in this modern age. However, as a FJ guy who has worked closely with the people who fly and support SAR crews, I take my hat off to them all.

They are the very best of the best! Long may they continue and lets hope we don't see this capability totally civilianized like so many others!

[BossEyed]

GAPAN citation here

I doff my cap to you, gentlemen.

[[email protected]]

What a f888ing load of old bo**ocks - this just goes to show what the Navy PR machine is capable of. Boscastle was an interesting job but no more than that - the flying skills required were not a patch on those needed for a dodgy night deck or a mountain rescue and these rescues are undertaken on a daily basis without the crews getting GAPAN awards or even worse, proper medals that previously demanded proper bravery and skill to earn.
The only guys who deserved medals were the winchmen - not the pilots and not the winch operators - hovering over a house is not difficult (I know cos I was there).
The RN crew got in the way because they were doing single strop lifts (they only had the one) with an intercom failure when there were 2 RAF Sea Kings queuing behind them, fully serviceable and with lots of strops.
The RN crew declared the 'major incident' which it wasn't as all the winching could have been, and mostly was, done with 2 helicopters - there was only room for one at a time in the village.
Strange that the RN agreed with the RAF that only the winchmen would be honoured and then changed their minds and started handing out AFCs because the PR footage (from the RAF aircraft) was so good.
BTW R169 was the one hovering over the village in the thunderstorm cos we were first there not R193.
R170 were the guys who did the lions share of the rescuing and acted as on scene commander (something that 193 said they would do on arrival and then ignored).
Rant over.

[STAN DEASY]

Crab

Are you a sad twisted self-serving egotist?.

Surely you must get greater satisfaction from being an unsung hero. Lets face it, you won't have to polish your shoes, clean your kit or have to look good for the photos.

Consider yourself lucky not to have been nominated (or is that what you really wanted?)

[[email protected]]

Frankly Stan, I would feel cheap if someone pinned a medal to my chest when it wasn't deserved - the award of an AFC usually means you have performed some extraordinary feat of airmanship and bravery - hovering over a pitching trawler in a Force 10 in the dark sort of stuff.
Boscastle was not an AFC job.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Anyway, if this thread gets on a sour grape trip its off! Whoever and whatever, it was considered and applied. It is a worthy story - but obviously not to some........................but like I said.

PPP

[Pierre Argh]

hovering over a pitching trawler in a Force 10 in the dark

Both the RAF and RN have plenty of that sort of stuff in the record books... and are rightly proud of it. There is also an amazing amount of inter-service bickering (most based on nothing more than rumour and half-truths). Boscastle crews got a medal, was it more or less deserving than other awards? It is sad, but probably a fact, nowadays that media attention is a likely trigger for awards. Does it devalue them... probably, but in the same way a Sqn Boss gets a DFC "on behalf" of the collective efforts of the squadron... I've always though that was devaluing too?

[[email protected]]

So PPrunePop, what you are saying is 'don't let the truth get in the way of a good story'.

[cobaltfrog]

I have to say that the Navy is usually very, indeed no, extremely bad at writing and forwarding people for Gallantry awards compared to the RAF. One only has to look at the amount of DFC's awarded for TELIC 1 to see that the Navy came off bad for what was an equal performance with the RAF on the insert at Al Faw and the subsequent support to 3 Cdo Bde RM. The fact that Florrie got an AFC therefore, must mean that the crew deserved it! (an assumption as I wasn't at Boscastle!)

[airborne_artist]

I have to say that the Navy is usually very, indeed no, extremely bad at writing and forwarding people for Gallantry awards

Much the same for Op Corporate, I believe. My father was very heavily involved in it from the well befiore the start (he was called at home to be told about the "scrap merchants" landing on S Georgia). His proposed CBE was deferred due to internal warring/spinelessness over award rationing, and so was dished out in the NY honours that followed. OK, he got it, but it always left a sour taste with me that he didn't get on the South Atlantic list.

[Bismark]

Crab...,

It is sad to see the SAR world appearing so bitter as I thought they were all v professional in their business. You may be completely right in what you say and in your a/c all was hunky dory. But this does not appear to have been the case in R193 and no matter what was happening elsewhere what that crew did (speechless rescues) appears to have been pretty outstanding and deserving of the award.

Grow up.

[[email protected]]

Bismark - your lack of knowledge of SAR is evident in your post - yes doing speechless rescues is more difficult - and if you are the only asset you have to get on with it. BUT - when there are others who can do the job quicker (important when lives are at stake) then it is not professional or outstanding to get in the way.

Know what you are talking about before you start taking a pop at others.

[Bismark]

Crab...,

I was involved in SAR for several years and can imagine the scene perfectly. From the point at which their comms failed what 195 actually achieved seems pretty good to me. I suspect that from that point their whole focus was inside the a/c rather than who was queuing up behind them.

If R170 was Scene of Action Commander why did they not tell 195 to p..e off?

B

[Bluntend]

Shortly after the Boscastle event I received a phone call from a friend who had two other friends holidaying in Boscastle at the time of the flood. Both were rescued by the SAR teams and my friend wanted me to pass on their (and his) gratitude. Since I have nothing to do with SAR crews and know nothing about SAR Ops (thought I'd better get that in before the "Bluntend, you obviously know nothing about..." banter starts) I have had no opportunity to pass on their message. I thought, therefore, that this is as good a forum as any. So, on behalf of some unfortunate holidaymakers a belated yet heart-felt thankyou to all involved.

Right, I'll let you get back your bickering...

[portwait]

Crab

In my time I was deeply involved in SAR at both 771 and 819.

Couldn't agree with you more in the fact that the flying skills required were not a patch on night mountain work.

However must congratulate the guys as it is about time the RN recognised what SAR crews do, hopefully they will now realise what is done at Prestwick, but I doubt it as I hear all nominations must go through Culdrose and we woudn't want to upset the centre for SAR excellence that is 771

[Tourist]

Must concur, the simple fact is however that in todays world it didnt happen unless a camera saw it, so you never get citations for the really tricky ones. About time the RN put some people forward. Its a bit cheeky for Crab to be complaining about Navy boys when the RAF have given out a few AFC's for SAR in the not so distant past.
Just think of the awards as credit for all the other unsung scary moments.
And yes I have been on 819 and 771.
As to whether you should get medals at all on a dedicated SAR sqn is another question.

[[email protected]]

Bluntend, you obviously know nothing about.............. no I am not suggesting a good job was not done on the day, only that it was a straighforward winchex off a roof and therefore (other than the winchmen who were being put through windows and between power cables etc) there was no extraordinary skill involved deserving of AFCs (even our winchmen only got Queens Commendations).

Bismark - R193 arrived second on scene and agreed to be OSC (On Scene Commander) as we were already winching an urgent casualty. I advised him to check the cars that were in the river and the harbour as the CG on the ground was tasking us directly. As we moved our casualty to the helimed helo in the football field, 193 dropped into the valley and spent an age getting his winchman down before starting single lifts off the Visitor Centre roof. We could not get him to respond to the RT (possibly due to his intercom snag) and so we left for fuel shortly after 170 arrived and took over OSC.

[leopold bloom]

Crab has hit the nail on the head, those of us who were there were ashamed of the subsequent ballyhoo and particularly the awards that were made.

[Bismark]

To sum this thread up I guess SAR awards will always be controversial - the "we were just doing our job" syndrome. But occasionally a rescue captures the public imagination and awards result. Despite the comments above I still think 193 did an outstanding job in v difficult circumstances as I am sure did others. I fthe awards and subsequent publicity remind the public of the existence of the UK SAR force and the risks they put themselves to then the internal controversy is probably worth it.

[Decks]

I fly an S61 for the CHC on contract to the Irish Coastguard and what I see here sums up the biggest problem in SAR and thats the f****ing egos of some of those involved.
WELL DONE to all at Boscastle. Clearly lots of lives were saved. Thats the biggest medal of them all.
The USCG lifted 6000 people in the days after Katrina...well done to them too.