QR management deserting in numbers
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: london
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QR management deserting in numbers
In the past three or four months:
GM Commercial
GM Finance
GM Flight Ops
Assistant GM Commercial
Manager Ground Services
Manager Airports
Manager Cargo
Head of Catering
Head of FFP
Country Manager Italy
Country Manager Sudan
Country Manager Sri Lanka
Others to come, I am told.
How can you run a successful business with turnover among senior managers at this level?
GM Commercial
GM Finance
GM Flight Ops
Assistant GM Commercial
Manager Ground Services
Manager Airports
Manager Cargo
Head of Catering
Head of FFP
Country Manager Italy
Country Manager Sudan
Country Manager Sri Lanka
Others to come, I am told.
How can you run a successful business with turnover among senior managers at this level?
, yeah right.Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Same set up
I think he means the 'reinforced front door' set-up. EK has the door to keep the hordes out, who are trying to get in. QR has the door to keep the hordes in, who are trying to get out.
Bit like the old iron curtain- or should that be sand curtain?
Bit like the old iron curtain- or should that be sand curtain?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Middle East
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cabin service managers in the last years - 6!!!! (not counting Bob, who has been in and out a few times.)
by the way, the manager FFP did not leave. He is still there in Doha (after being seconded to London for a year) and is doing an excellent job!
Don't know where you got that info from.
by the way, the manager FFP did not leave. He is still there in Doha (after being seconded to London for a year) and is doing an excellent job!
Don't know where you got that info from.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In a hole
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A300MAN,
Ok, GS got it wrong with the manager of FFP, but that still leaves..
GM Commercial
GM Finance
GM Flight Ops
Assistant GM Commercial
Manager Ground Services
Manager Airports
Manager Cargo
Head of Catering
Country Manager Italy
Country Manager Sudan
Country Manager Sri Lanka
...that is a lot of guys to have left in a few months. Can you account for them all???
However, I struggle to believe that many folks have left in such a short period of time. If many of them did leave, it does not mean they left because they think QR sucks. Many people spend X amount of time in the Middle East, and just dont enjoy the life there. Many people in new jobs in the Middle East just dont think its for them. They may think it is a good job and have nothing against the company, however they just dont seem comfotable working their.
Goldstone, can you confirm that these folks that left because of working conditions at QR. If they did leave due to this, fair enough. However if they left on a more personal level, there is no need to turn this into a QR bashing event, as it was not the airlines fault for their departures.
Cheers
BYB
Ok, GS got it wrong with the manager of FFP, but that still leaves..
GM Commercial
GM Finance
GM Flight Ops
Assistant GM Commercial
Manager Ground Services
Manager Airports
Manager Cargo
Head of Catering
Country Manager Italy
Country Manager Sudan
Country Manager Sri Lanka
...that is a lot of guys to have left in a few months. Can you account for them all???
However, I struggle to believe that many folks have left in such a short period of time. If many of them did leave, it does not mean they left because they think QR sucks. Many people spend X amount of time in the Middle East, and just dont enjoy the life there. Many people in new jobs in the Middle East just dont think its for them. They may think it is a good job and have nothing against the company, however they just dont seem comfotable working their.
Goldstone, can you confirm that these folks that left because of working conditions at QR. If they did leave due to this, fair enough. However if they left on a more personal level, there is no need to turn this into a QR bashing event, as it was not the airlines fault for their departures.
Cheers
BYB
Guest
Posts: n/a
From what I have heard they did NOT leave because of the working conditions at Qatar but they experienced some serieous problems on a personnal level.
If you arrive in Doha with the expectancy to see an efficient company like we are used in europe you will be very dissappointed!
Doha and Qatar are catching up very fast but they still have a long way to go so everything tens to run here a little bit harshly!
You need a bit more patience and most of all you have to have a thorough inside view of how to do business in Qatar...
In fact the only group within QR that really has a reason to complain is the cabin crew!
QR is demanding an awfull lot of them, the pay is not very good and the fear amongst some of the cabine attendants is huge....
That is one thing that QR managment really needs to change!
Considering all the flight crew in general some conditions will have to be addapted since they need a lot of pilots and CAs and the pool created after 11/9 is almost dried up.
The package will have to get on the same level as EK I think...
If you arrive in Doha with the expectancy to see an efficient company like we are used in europe you will be very dissappointed!
Doha and Qatar are catching up very fast but they still have a long way to go so everything tens to run here a little bit harshly!
You need a bit more patience and most of all you have to have a thorough inside view of how to do business in Qatar...
In fact the only group within QR that really has a reason to complain is the cabin crew!
QR is demanding an awfull lot of them, the pay is not very good and the fear amongst some of the cabine attendants is huge....
That is one thing that QR managment really needs to change!
Considering all the flight crew in general some conditions will have to be addapted since they need a lot of pilots and CAs and the pool created after 11/9 is almost dried up.
The package will have to get on the same level as EK I think...
Guest
Posts: n/a
As for the cabin crew " managers ", I recall the glory days of one SK...who was escorted from her office!
There haven't been many good ones although BG initially tried his best until he too realised his hands were tied!
MT was the fairest of all in my opinion and would back you up 100%.
Then you had old RK...a gentleman but a brown nose...
Not to forget the infamous snake himself SK! For him to be returned to SEP was a good move. He is an excellent SEP instructor, but two faced as a manager!
Then PP...she lasted seconds and was kicked out for defending a crew member! The crew member happens to be my wife!
The crew need a good leader who has freedom to help...but let's face it...that ain't gonna happen!
The crew are superb!
There haven't been many good ones although BG initially tried his best until he too realised his hands were tied!
MT was the fairest of all in my opinion and would back you up 100%.
Then you had old RK...a gentleman but a brown nose...
Not to forget the infamous snake himself SK! For him to be returned to SEP was a good move. He is an excellent SEP instructor, but two faced as a manager!
Then PP...she lasted seconds and was kicked out for defending a crew member! The crew member happens to be my wife!
The crew need a good leader who has freedom to help...but let's face it...that ain't gonna happen!
The crew are superb!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: london
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can confirm that most left because of working conditions at QR. All left of their own accord. Most found it impossible to work for AAB. Some found the Acting GM Commercial a problem. At least one was partly influenced by his growing dislike of living in Doha (boring was the word he used).
Another one quit this week. Manager Qatar Airways Holidays. Same problem ... AAB and Fakhri (Acting GM Comm).
All were good guys who were frustrated by having Manager titles, but no authority.
The guy running FFP did quit (a Belgian I believe). The guy from London has taken over from him.
QR have a problem. The departure of so many senior managers in a short time must be difficult for any company to handle. And someone should be taking a good look at the reasons.
Another one quit this week. Manager Qatar Airways Holidays. Same problem ... AAB and Fakhri (Acting GM Comm).
All were good guys who were frustrated by having Manager titles, but no authority.
The guy running FFP did quit (a Belgian I believe). The guy from London has taken over from him.
QR have a problem. The departure of so many senior managers in a short time must be difficult for any company to handle. And someone should be taking a good look at the reasons.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: la belle France
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ohh no!!!!
Has the "manager" of QR Holidays gone home thats a pity cause he was a really nice guy and very organised.So its not just the Cabin Crew who have to work under unacceptable conditions.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Middle East
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taba
After all this time, I have just now realised who you are, when you made the comments about PP defending your wife!! Now that i know who you are, can I just say that I hope you are doing well and wife and kid too!! HB was an excellent lady to fly with and I hope that she is well.
I would concur with your comments that MT was probably the best out of the aforementioned. Still, QR's loss was EK's gain.
The current SK (although officially SEP manager) actually appears to take more to do with the running of cabin services that BG. However, SK is so far up AAB's backside that you can only see the soles of his shoes!!!! Never rely on him (if you are a crew member) to help you in any way. He is totally useless and spineless. Couldn't handle the pressure as a CSD when he flew with QR.
However, despite the above, QR is still miles ahead of any other carrier in the gulf as far as PERSONAL service is concerned.
After all this time, I have just now realised who you are, when you made the comments about PP defending your wife!! Now that i know who you are, can I just say that I hope you are doing well and wife and kid too!! HB was an excellent lady to fly with and I hope that she is well.
I would concur with your comments that MT was probably the best out of the aforementioned. Still, QR's loss was EK's gain.
The current SK (although officially SEP manager) actually appears to take more to do with the running of cabin services that BG. However, SK is so far up AAB's backside that you can only see the soles of his shoes!!!! Never rely on him (if you are a crew member) to help you in any way. He is totally useless and spineless. Couldn't handle the pressure as a CSD when he flew with QR.
However, despite the above, QR is still miles ahead of any other carrier in the gulf as far as PERSONAL service is concerned.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: la belle France
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mt
Ahh yes good ole MT a big loss to QR but as you said this is EK's gain,MT and AAB just did not get along,A300Man do you think that AAB will ever see the light and realise that the overall situation in QR is grim and that its all down to him,also I hav just been informed that at least 10 crew are arranging a big departure sometime around Christmas,I wouldn't want to be on sby in the next few weeks.Bye bye.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I just heard that AAB is about to leave QR in order to focus himself on his next project...the building of the new airport!
Actually, I do not think that AAB is doing such a bad job after all! I agree that he sometimes overreacts and that he does thing not in a very humane way if you know what I am saying but.....
Lets face it, Qatar Airways was a crappy airline a few years ago. No discipline, no structure no authority and no vision.
So when the governement took over QR they needed a very strong hnd in order to set things straight. An there was AAB!
And he did it! He made QR as the company we see today! He is there only to make sure tat QR does become a world airline and if you ask me, he is about to obtain his goal!
People in Qatar are not used to his way of managment. Life tends to go slowly here and efficiency is a word most people do not even know about! And that is something you can not accept in an airline!
So he had to rule with a fierce hand because fear is the only thing what make people listen inittially. Also there are 55 nationalities within QR and he has to be sure that they all work together.....
If anybody knows a better way of doing this in such a short period of time but I honestly do not see how this could have been done differently!
Even now, with AAB running around everywhere, some departments within QR are still a total mess just because of a wrong attitude and mentality!
Imagine what it would look like without this figure of authority!
Also you have to take into consideration that QR is a fast growing airline. They are even growing too fast. So they are still looking for the optimum way of working. It is true that the working conditions for the F/As are almost unbearable at times, it is true that the facilities provided could be better, it is true that there are weak spots in the system and structure....
But hey, they have to do it all with the means they have! There is a shortage of cabin crew right now, a shortage of pilots as well! A
And why? Not because they are not able to find te candidates, no because the training departements can not keep up! So we all have to help out a little! but lets face it, the level of training did not suffer because of the shortage of crews! No, everybody still have to follow all classes forseen!!! I know many other airlines who are cutting down the training because they need the crews online........THat IS dangerous!!!!!!!
What I see that there is missing at QR is the lack of team spirit! People should become more proud of the company they are flying for! And generally I see a lack of attitude amongst some of the CCM!
Common guys, lets fight for our company!
Everything is changing here. They are trying hard to change things! Why dont we help them a little? CRM courses are implimented, there are channels of anonymous communication available where you can vent frustration or share an opinion but guess what.....
Almost nobody uses them! And why? Lack of spirit? Fear?.....
Give them a fair chance and allow them this period of growth and I am sure that we will all merrit from the future succes of the company! Remember, we are on the beginning of the growth of this airline and it has a huge potential!
You dont see these comments on the net about EK do you? And that is certainly not because everything is so swell over there you know! No, it is because they have a different mentality there! They are all working hard to obtain the same goal and that is the reason for EKs succes!!!
Here at QR a lot of people are working against the company....please stop it!
Actually, I do not think that AAB is doing such a bad job after all! I agree that he sometimes overreacts and that he does thing not in a very humane way if you know what I am saying but.....
Lets face it, Qatar Airways was a crappy airline a few years ago. No discipline, no structure no authority and no vision.
So when the governement took over QR they needed a very strong hnd in order to set things straight. An there was AAB!
And he did it! He made QR as the company we see today! He is there only to make sure tat QR does become a world airline and if you ask me, he is about to obtain his goal!
People in Qatar are not used to his way of managment. Life tends to go slowly here and efficiency is a word most people do not even know about! And that is something you can not accept in an airline!
So he had to rule with a fierce hand because fear is the only thing what make people listen inittially. Also there are 55 nationalities within QR and he has to be sure that they all work together.....
If anybody knows a better way of doing this in such a short period of time but I honestly do not see how this could have been done differently!
Even now, with AAB running around everywhere, some departments within QR are still a total mess just because of a wrong attitude and mentality!
Imagine what it would look like without this figure of authority!
Also you have to take into consideration that QR is a fast growing airline. They are even growing too fast. So they are still looking for the optimum way of working. It is true that the working conditions for the F/As are almost unbearable at times, it is true that the facilities provided could be better, it is true that there are weak spots in the system and structure....
But hey, they have to do it all with the means they have! There is a shortage of cabin crew right now, a shortage of pilots as well! A
And why? Not because they are not able to find te candidates, no because the training departements can not keep up! So we all have to help out a little! but lets face it, the level of training did not suffer because of the shortage of crews! No, everybody still have to follow all classes forseen!!! I know many other airlines who are cutting down the training because they need the crews online........THat IS dangerous!!!!!!!
What I see that there is missing at QR is the lack of team spirit! People should become more proud of the company they are flying for! And generally I see a lack of attitude amongst some of the CCM!
Common guys, lets fight for our company!
Everything is changing here. They are trying hard to change things! Why dont we help them a little? CRM courses are implimented, there are channels of anonymous communication available where you can vent frustration or share an opinion but guess what.....
Almost nobody uses them! And why? Lack of spirit? Fear?.....
Give them a fair chance and allow them this period of growth and I am sure that we will all merrit from the future succes of the company! Remember, we are on the beginning of the growth of this airline and it has a huge potential!
You dont see these comments on the net about EK do you? And that is certainly not because everything is so swell over there you know! No, it is because they have a different mentality there! They are all working hard to obtain the same goal and that is the reason for EKs succes!!!
Here at QR a lot of people are working against the company....please stop it!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: london
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To Kenoco .... former QR Hos Mgr is apparently hoping to stay in the Gulf region.
To Chevy CC ...
Some thoughts on the points you raised.
... AAB personally does nothing to ensure any of the QR people work effectively together ... in fact examples of individuals, nationalities and departments cooperating successfully are usually in spite of the CEO's efforts, not because of them.
... the lack of team spirit in many areas of the company is due to the same reasons. AAB does absolutely nothing to foster team spirit in the organisation.
... the Commercial Conference in the Spring was a good example of his "leadership". I am told his keynote speech to open the conference consisted entirely of criticism of the managers including accusations of laziness, rule-breaking etc. Not one "well done" or "lets all work together"... completely lacking in motivation. However to be fair to him, his opening remarks at the recent Airport Managers Conference were, I am told, much more balanced with a sprinkling of positive stuff. Sign of a change ... I wonder!!
To Chevy CC ...
Some thoughts on the points you raised.
... AAB personally does nothing to ensure any of the QR people work effectively together ... in fact examples of individuals, nationalities and departments cooperating successfully are usually in spite of the CEO's efforts, not because of them.
... the lack of team spirit in many areas of the company is due to the same reasons. AAB does absolutely nothing to foster team spirit in the organisation.
... the Commercial Conference in the Spring was a good example of his "leadership". I am told his keynote speech to open the conference consisted entirely of criticism of the managers including accusations of laziness, rule-breaking etc. Not one "well done" or "lets all work together"... completely lacking in motivation. However to be fair to him, his opening remarks at the recent Airport Managers Conference were, I am told, much more balanced with a sprinkling of positive stuff. Sign of a change ... I wonder!!
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Generally speaking, there is is far more prestige in being an airline CEO than the boss of a rather obscure airport.
AAB likes the limelight, so unless HE Sheik Halifa Al Thani directs otherwise, he will stay as boss of QR.
What is really sad is that AAB has made, and will destroy, QR.
No smilies in this post. I have a very soft spot for QR and see it still suffering from a misguided CEO gives me no pleasure at all.
AAB likes the limelight, so unless HE Sheik Halifa Al Thani directs otherwise, he will stay as boss of QR.
What is really sad is that AAB has made, and will destroy, QR.
No smilies in this post. I have a very soft spot for QR and see it still suffering from a misguided CEO gives me no pleasure at all.