170hrs...Need advice!

[Airborne16]

Just looking for some advice for people as I seem to have come to a dead end with my training.

Basically, I have 170hrs and completed all my ATPL ground exams about a year ago. For various reasons I had to put my training on hold, but now a year down the line I cannot decide what route to take from here. Obviously, I have limited time before the exams run out, so I am just looking for any suggestions!!!

Cheers guys.....

[dodo-bird]

You are not very specific. What do you have already? What do you want to do in the future? The job market at the moment sucks!! Despite the eternal (in more ways than one) optimism there really isn't much reason to think things are about to change anytime soon. Instructing is an option but even instructing jobs are not that easy to come by while the airlines are not hiring. I'm not trying to put you off or be overly pessimistic. I really do think things will improve but my prediction on the timescale of any improvement is a little more long term than some posts. I have been told by a reliable source that some 60% of all commercially qualified pilots in the UK are within 10 years of retirement. Which means that the industry is going to have to start thinking about training replacements in the next 3-5 years or so. There are certainly better times on the way. Just plan your training accordingly and don't expect too much in the near future. Hope that helps! keep on plugging away!!

[Pilot Pete]

do-do

The job market at the moment sucks!! Despite the eternal (in more ways than one) optimism there really isn't much reason to think things are about to change anytime soon........while the airlines are not hiring.

Yes, it sucks. But where do you get your information about the airlines not hiring? Here are the ones that I know of which are;

Britannia
BAC Express
Air Southwest
Channex/ Jet2
Flybe
easyJet
Ryanair

And that's just off the top of my head. Let's keep some kind of perspective shall we, not just scaremonger? It is due to current recruitment and the position that many airlines find themselves in this summer (ie short of pilots) that informed people see some hope of an improvement in the hiring environment in the not too distant future.

60% of all commercially qualified pilots in the UK are within 10 years of retirement.

Like to ask on what basis is your source 'trusted' as that figure sounds highly unlikely to me. Let's say normal retirement is 60 (which it probably won't be in 10 years time, it will be higher IMHO) are you trying to tell me that 60% of UK pilots are 50+? I work in an airline with a large retirement bulge coming over the next decade and I would find it hard to believe that 60% of our pilots are 50+, let alone with the likes of an airline like Easy. So please let me know on what basis is this 60% figure calculated? Sounds more like wishful 'Wannabeism' coupled to a angling story. There certainly are plenty of retirments in the next decade, especially with the well establised carriers and opportunities will inevitably arise. Again, Wannabes need to keep perspective and idle speculation about 'pilot shortages' et al does not help when the rose tinted specs are on.

Airborne16

I would suggest the route that is within your financial constraints, that will best suit your 'lifestyle' and above all else THAT PREVENTS YOUR CREDITS BEING LOST FOR YOUR EXAMS!

PP

[redsnail]

It seems you don't have much of a choice.

J1.7 JAR-FCL THEORETICAL
KNOWLEDGE EXAMINATION
ACCEPTANCE PERIOD
Potential candidates for the JAR-FCL ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations should first
consider the implications of JAR-FCL 1.495 or
2.495 that relates to the Acceptance Period.
A pass in the ATPL theory examinations will be
accepted for the issue of a CPL or IR during the 36
months from the end of the month of the date of
the final pass in the examinations. Provided that an
IR is obtained during this period, a pass in the ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations will remain
valid (for the purpose of ATPL issue) for a period of
7 years from the validity date of the most recent
renewal IR entered in the CPL. However, if a
professional licence with IR is not gained during the
36 month period, the ATPL theory credit will lapse.
Candidates would have to re-pass the ATPL or IR
theoretical knowledge examinations before an IR
could be granted.

Source:LASORS

You've gone through 12 months of the 36 months allowed. You have 2 years now to get an IR and a CPL.

[dodo-bird]

I am not going to name the person but suffice to say he is well connected with the CAA and does not have an axe to grind. Those figures are based on the current retirement age and medicals issued by the CAA. I emphasise this is something I have been told I make no claims as to it’s veracity but as you say yourself you have a big retirement bulge in the next ten years. I hear what you are saying regarding recruitment but the guy has 170 hrs are really suggesting given the number of experienced pilots out there sitting on their butts looking for jobs that I would be responsible in telling him that he's going to walk into a job with a couple of hundred hours? It does happen and I will be more than happy if it does but it's not realistic (unless you pay for the type rateing) .As I said before the job market sucks! That in no way is meant to mean that no one is recruiting it means that lots and lots of qualified atpl's frozen and not frozen with lots of experience are all vying for those jobs. I think blind optimism in the face of the biggest airline slump for well over a decade is far worse. If you are right and the retirement age goes up or is scrapped that will make the situation worse still, but I doubt the French will change their 60 in our airspace rule so it will make little difference on that front. As for scare mongering and wishful wanabeeism, we are talking about someone putting his livelihood on the line. I think we owe it to him (and ourselves for that matter) to give him a realist view of what he’s letting himself in for. I am not trying to create a negative view but rather a realistic one. Things will get better but not for a while yet! As redsnail points out you’ve got three years or start again on the exam front. So it pays to plan with a clear head and realistic expectations. I hope that clarifies the situation. Best of luck!

[foghorn]

I did some analysis of the CAA's own figures of licence holders by age a while ago:

Thread here

The crux of the matter is that there is a retirement bulge working its way through the system, however it is nowhere near as big as some people think - there are certainly not 60% of pilots that close to retirement.

[Pilot Pete]

dodo

I think the realistic view has to be that if he doesn't qualify he certainly won't get a job. If he does qualify he statistically has a much better chance. The industry is in the doldrums at the moment, but I say it again, several airlines are recruiting and they do not all require type ratings and oodles of experience for you to be hired.

This industry has always been very difficult to break into straight out of flight school and it certainly is no different now. Nobody is suggesting that this Wannabe is going to walk straight into an airline job once qualified. It does happen and he may be lucky, the odds are however aganst that happening and he will probably have to do what the rest of us did and spend a couple of years gaining hours and experience.

I think blind optimism in the face of the biggest airline slump for well over a decade is far worse.

I agree, that's why I and others are answering his questions. I personally always try to point out just how difficult the job market is to prevent the blind optimism, but I also try to offer some encouragement, like the fact that airlines are recruiting and that if he leaves it too long the one thing he has that is guaranteed (his ATPL theory passes) will be taken away from him. That is just pointing out fact, the choice to either continue or not rests solely with him. Hopefully he has gained a bit more of a balanced view than

60% of all commercially qualified pilots in the UK are within 10 years of retirement.

which I tried to diplomatically point out is outright Wannabe optimism. Why not put a post in Terms and Endearment asking the question of those currently employed by UK airlines? I think the unscientific straight question will disprove the theory. I doubt it is true in any UK airline, let alone across the board.

I am not trying to create a negative view but rather a realistic one.

So let's try and do that and not just give a bitter and twisted one. I'll say it again, this industry is very difficult to break into, but not impossible. There, realism.

Best of British Airborne16,

PP

[dodo-bird]

Back again! I am quite happy to concede that the 60% figure sounds high and as I said I make no claims as to its veracity. But as this is a rumour network it's a rumour, I heard it and I’ll pass it on make of what you will. It seems to have stirred up quite a hornets nest and that’s good in my opinion!
Foghorns thread makes interesting reading. It's interesting to note the comments about JAA qualified pilots working here (and Kiwis, aussies, cannucks, south africans etc....) I have no experience of working in Europe but the general consensus of opinion would seem to suggest that it's a lot easier for Europeans to work for uk airlines than the other way around.
As for the job market, as far as the airline industry is concerned we (in Europe) Have far too many airlines and as a result too much capacity. The balance of power is shifting from the big dinosaur airlines all over the world and it's not going to change anytime soon. That means paying for type ratings, your own parking pass working every hour that the CAA/JAA will allow and less money in the bank at the end of the month.
If you want to view that as pessimistic that's fine but at the end of the day. You have to admit working for the airlines is not as good a deal as it once was.
I didn't get into aviation for the money or the status I do it because I love to fly. But it doesn't mean that I go all misty eyed and blindly optimistic in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
I agree that life rewards action. Simple as that. If you don't do it you will never find out. But do have a look through this forum at posts from people with Full ATPL's a 1000+ hrs of turbo prop experience and a pile of PFO's up to the ceiling!
My advice is go for it. Enjoy it but don't expect too much for quite a while yet! Best of luck