Sending job applications
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Sending job applications
What time of the year do you consider the best times to send job-applications? How often do you send them? late summer, early spring, Anyone?
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Depends how much spare cash you have for stamps etc.! Seriosly though once a month I send about 30. I have a database of about 150 and these are randomly selected-also sendone any time I hear either a rumour or news.
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Always send a covering letter. I was tought to send it hand written if it was a specific reply or targeting, and typed but personally addressed for random mail shots.
By not sending random CV's you are limiting your chances of being in 'the right place at the right time'.
By not sending random CV's you are limiting your chances of being in 'the right place at the right time'.
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So far i have only been sending applications once every 6 to 12 months enclosing a coverletter and a resume.
As it seems that there will be more jobs available during the fall and spring. I am now thinking of making mailings every 3-4 months, but what would be to often and at what time of the year is recruitment peeking?
As it seems that there will be more jobs available during the fall and spring. I am now thinking of making mailings every 3-4 months, but what would be to often and at what time of the year is recruitment peeking?
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recruitment at the moment if nearly dead. the airlines just don't have the time to interview you yet alone train you up. the training captains are being roped in to do normal line flying. (or so i've been told). I always thought the spring season was the highest recruitment period. I always tried to send of by early - mid feb and late august. But the again I havn't had an interview yet so i could be completely off, and i stand open to correction.
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Without meaning to cause offence maybe the no interview thing is the state of the market and that you might be one of a thousand low hour people doing the same thing.
It must be fairly daunting task for an airline when it needs someone to try and go through the piles of CV's - no wonder it's a boys club!
It must be fairly daunting task for an airline when it needs someone to try and go through the piles of CV's - no wonder it's a boys club!
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I know full well that the airline industry is doing badly for us low hours pilots at the moment. I'm also not surprised that i havn't got an interview. I was just stating facts from my perspective. I don't hold any hopes of getting an interview in the summer silly season, I just get hopeful when october/march come around. (hopeful not expectant).
P.s. no offence felt too tired to care, my pale and pasty office skin is melting from the opressive sweltering heat
P.s. no offence felt too tired to care, my pale and pasty office skin is melting from the opressive sweltering heat
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Come on guys, use a bit of common sense. Lets address the issues in order.
1. Jetavia - the best time to send an application is when the airline is recruiting, doesn't matter what time of year it is or if the moon is full or not.
2. Ex Oggie - If you send a cv speculatively 'every 3 months maximum' then you are wasting your time, unless you strike incredibly lucky. You need to be doing homework and sending them whenever you get a 'sniff', follow up speculative ones (and targetted ones for that matter) and glean info even if they are not recruiting. Any cv sent a couple of months back speculatively is likely not to be looked at if recruitment starts unless the airline in question specifically file them. In the current market there is absolutely no need to do that because another couple of dozen will be turning up every week.
3. Gardner - that's more like it, but I would hope that you are following them up with vigour!
4. AH64 Apache - Yes, definately target companies. It depends on your perspective. If you are looking for your first job you must target any airline that is actively recruiting or you hear is about to and also do a bit of speculative. Again, sending the cv and waiting for the call is not enough, it's easier to send you a PFO than it is the guy who has phoned several times, been polite, meets the criterion and has expressed his/ her desire to work for the company and made themselves available at short notice etc etc. Who will be uppermost in the recruiters mind when it comes calling a handful in for interview? (type ratings and other such things being equal.)
No point sending a cv without a covering letter. Have you ever received something from a company without at least a compliments slip? If you have did you sit there wondering what it was about for a second or two? Remember the person who opens the post is not necessarily the one who knows anything about pilot recruitment and is just looking for where to file it in the internal mail system. Will JAR ATPL 250hrs TT MEP/SEP etc etc mean anything to him/her? Minimise the risk of it getting 'lost' in the bin.
5. Ex Oggie - beg to differ, unless specifically asked to fill something in using your own handwriting (usually an application form) then type it. No business sends handwritten letters, neither should you. Again it's about minimising the risks of getting your cv binned. If they can't read your cover letter easily and they already have a pile of 200 which would be the first candidate for WPB? (waste paper bin) Always personally address the letter to the correct person. It stands out a mile as a mailshot if just addressed to 'the airline recruiter' etc and shows that you don't really want to work for this company specifically, just anyone! (which WE know is true, but is not the impression to give a company)
6. Jetavia again - if you send out a CV once every 6-12 months you are missing more potential jobs than you are applying for.
7. Cortilla - Yes recruitment is very low at the moment but your coverall statement about airlines not having the time to interview/ train is incorrect. If aeroplanes are not flying or sub charters are happening due to lack of aircrew and the bean counters give the green light to recruit then recruit they will. Several airlines are actively recruiting here and now in the UK. Do your homework guys.
8. AH64 Apache again - Yes you are correct. Hundreds of low hour guys are chasing all the same jobs so it backs up my point that an individual simply must do more than send the cv and sit by the phone. YOU MUST BE PROACTIVE as the guys that are are the ones who are getting employed.
Going through the CVs is not daunting at all. They start at the top of the pile (pot luck) and go through until they have the required amount to call for selection/ interview. Anyone below that will be binned or held for a while as backup. Bottom of the pile - tough luck. Come on guys, how would you do it? It's all common sense.
9. cortilla again - It all comes down to how much you want that job. Sit back holding out no hope until October/ March and the one thing that is guaranteed is that plenty of others on these pages will be saying 'thanks mate, one less competitor' If you want it bad enough you will be pushing every opportunity hard and 'making your own luck' as the ones we think of as lucky have usually worked pretty hard to get the break!
So there you have it. My two pennies worth. No offence meant to anyone and I do understand just how frustrating it all can be, but you must keep sight of your goals and push even harder now if you don't want to sit at the bottom of the pile for years to come.
Best of (self made) luck everyone.
PP
1. Jetavia - the best time to send an application is when the airline is recruiting, doesn't matter what time of year it is or if the moon is full or not.
2. Ex Oggie - If you send a cv speculatively 'every 3 months maximum' then you are wasting your time, unless you strike incredibly lucky. You need to be doing homework and sending them whenever you get a 'sniff', follow up speculative ones (and targetted ones for that matter) and glean info even if they are not recruiting. Any cv sent a couple of months back speculatively is likely not to be looked at if recruitment starts unless the airline in question specifically file them. In the current market there is absolutely no need to do that because another couple of dozen will be turning up every week.
3. Gardner - that's more like it, but I would hope that you are following them up with vigour!
4. AH64 Apache - Yes, definately target companies. It depends on your perspective. If you are looking for your first job you must target any airline that is actively recruiting or you hear is about to and also do a bit of speculative. Again, sending the cv and waiting for the call is not enough, it's easier to send you a PFO than it is the guy who has phoned several times, been polite, meets the criterion and has expressed his/ her desire to work for the company and made themselves available at short notice etc etc. Who will be uppermost in the recruiters mind when it comes calling a handful in for interview? (type ratings and other such things being equal.)
No point sending a cv without a covering letter. Have you ever received something from a company without at least a compliments slip? If you have did you sit there wondering what it was about for a second or two? Remember the person who opens the post is not necessarily the one who knows anything about pilot recruitment and is just looking for where to file it in the internal mail system. Will JAR ATPL 250hrs TT MEP/SEP etc etc mean anything to him/her? Minimise the risk of it getting 'lost' in the bin.
5. Ex Oggie - beg to differ, unless specifically asked to fill something in using your own handwriting (usually an application form) then type it. No business sends handwritten letters, neither should you. Again it's about minimising the risks of getting your cv binned. If they can't read your cover letter easily and they already have a pile of 200 which would be the first candidate for WPB? (waste paper bin) Always personally address the letter to the correct person. It stands out a mile as a mailshot if just addressed to 'the airline recruiter' etc and shows that you don't really want to work for this company specifically, just anyone! (which WE know is true, but is not the impression to give a company)
6. Jetavia again - if you send out a CV once every 6-12 months you are missing more potential jobs than you are applying for.
7. Cortilla - Yes recruitment is very low at the moment but your coverall statement about airlines not having the time to interview/ train is incorrect. If aeroplanes are not flying or sub charters are happening due to lack of aircrew and the bean counters give the green light to recruit then recruit they will. Several airlines are actively recruiting here and now in the UK. Do your homework guys.
8. AH64 Apache again - Yes you are correct. Hundreds of low hour guys are chasing all the same jobs so it backs up my point that an individual simply must do more than send the cv and sit by the phone. YOU MUST BE PROACTIVE as the guys that are are the ones who are getting employed.
Going through the CVs is not daunting at all. They start at the top of the pile (pot luck) and go through until they have the required amount to call for selection/ interview. Anyone below that will be binned or held for a while as backup. Bottom of the pile - tough luck. Come on guys, how would you do it? It's all common sense.
9. cortilla again - It all comes down to how much you want that job. Sit back holding out no hope until October/ March and the one thing that is guaranteed is that plenty of others on these pages will be saying 'thanks mate, one less competitor' If you want it bad enough you will be pushing every opportunity hard and 'making your own luck' as the ones we think of as lucky have usually worked pretty hard to get the break!
So there you have it. My two pennies worth. No offence meant to anyone and I do understand just how frustrating it all can be, but you must keep sight of your goals and push even harder now if you don't want to sit at the bottom of the pile for years to come.
Best of (self made) luck everyone.
PP
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PP,
Spot on.
Everyone else,
You make your own luck and should be listening out and networking like mad. You all say there are no jobs, well that is not and has never been true.
Sure, jobs have been fewer, but they are there. I don't mean just for experienced jet pilots like PP and me etc, but for low hours guys too.
A friend of mine got a job on SEPTEMBER 20th 2001....only 9 days on. He stood out from the crowd and got it.
So, even in good times if you have low hours and only send a handful of blanket CV's every few months you will be unemployed for a very long time.
Captains are valuable, co pilots are ten a penny and low hours, inexperienced co pilots are plentiful, expensive to train and a risk from an airline point of view.
So, stand out from the crowd and get lucky for yourself.
oh, and make sure you can spell......
Spot on.
Everyone else,
You make your own luck and should be listening out and networking like mad. You all say there are no jobs, well that is not and has never been true.
Sure, jobs have been fewer, but they are there. I don't mean just for experienced jet pilots like PP and me etc, but for low hours guys too.
A friend of mine got a job on SEPTEMBER 20th 2001....only 9 days on. He stood out from the crowd and got it.
So, even in good times if you have low hours and only send a handful of blanket CV's every few months you will be unemployed for a very long time.
Captains are valuable, co pilots are ten a penny and low hours, inexperienced co pilots are plentiful, expensive to train and a risk from an airline point of view.
So, stand out from the crowd and get lucky for yourself.
oh, and make sure you can spell......
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Oh, and another point.
"Not recruiting with no plans for recruitment" does not mean that they will not be recruiting tomorrow, or even this afternoon just after you phoned! When the beancounters give the green light it's usually after the pilot managers have been bleating for mercy for several weeks due to lack of crews. Things then usually happen very quickly.
So all you guys who are sending CVs and phoning and emailing constantly are all ready for an interview/ selection, let's say in 3 days time are you?
Make sure your preparation and background on the airlines you are applying to is up to date and building by the day. It's no good to start thinking about what type of tests/ questions do airline 'x' ask 2 days before your (short notice) selection. We all know how hard it is to even get an interview in the current market, can you afford to screw up what might be your ONLY invitation for interview?
Think hard guys, getting the frozen ATPL was the easy bit, this is the time that the real dedication is needed to make the difference between career progression or unemployment (pilot wise) for quite a while.
PP
"Not recruiting with no plans for recruitment" does not mean that they will not be recruiting tomorrow, or even this afternoon just after you phoned! When the beancounters give the green light it's usually after the pilot managers have been bleating for mercy for several weeks due to lack of crews. Things then usually happen very quickly.
So all you guys who are sending CVs and phoning and emailing constantly are all ready for an interview/ selection, let's say in 3 days time are you?
Make sure your preparation and background on the airlines you are applying to is up to date and building by the day. It's no good to start thinking about what type of tests/ questions do airline 'x' ask 2 days before your (short notice) selection. We all know how hard it is to even get an interview in the current market, can you afford to screw up what might be your ONLY invitation for interview?
Think hard guys, getting the frozen ATPL was the easy bit, this is the time that the real dedication is needed to make the difference between career progression or unemployment (pilot wise) for quite a while.
PP
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Well I send them every week. with an update and a covering letter...
I have the same response rate probably, but I personalise my covering letters. "Please note that I have an extra 3 hours since I last contacted you."
It has really cheered me up to read that people are applying on a cyclical 3/6 month basis.
I was thinking about going daily, but clearly it doesnt require the extra effort.
I have the same response rate probably, but I personalise my covering letters. "Please note that I have an extra 3 hours since I last contacted you."
It has really cheered me up to read that people are applying on a cyclical 3/6 month basis.
I was thinking about going daily, but clearly it doesnt require the extra effort.
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Tailscrape:
It's all about right place right time which is how i got my first job - and i really have been super lucky!
luckiest bloke i ever knew was also the hardest working.
It's all about right place right time which is how i got my first job - and i really have been super lucky!
luckiest bloke i ever knew was also the hardest working.
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IMHO sending a cv weekly would be ott - if I was recruitment and had to sift through that lot all the time - i would start recognising the paper of the envelope and bin them without opening.
As for how do they pick the interviewees - well when PP says how would you do it - I would follow EU employment law - which means that recruitment has to be open and transparent and that everyone must be given an equal chance. Picking from the top of the file does not suggest this happens.
I appreciate the relaity and I am sure PP will say that airlines can not do it but they run thr risk of leaving themselves open to legal action on their recruitment practices. 'Discrimination' rings a few bells.
As for how do they pick the interviewees - well when PP says how would you do it - I would follow EU employment law - which means that recruitment has to be open and transparent and that everyone must be given an equal chance. Picking from the top of the file does not suggest this happens.
I appreciate the relaity and I am sure PP will say that airlines can not do it but they run thr risk of leaving themselves open to legal action on their recruitment practices. 'Discrimination' rings a few bells.
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AH64
I see your point but with many aspects of employment law try proving it. Easier if you work for a company already, but as an applicant how are you going to prove anything? You can't just say I've applied hundreds of times to the same airline and haven't had a phone call, because as we all know there are plenty of others in the same boat. Let's take the other side of the coin. If you will employ a pilot with 250hrs does that mean you have to allow every other pilot with 250hrs or more to come for interview?(assuming they all meet the other criterion). That could be hundreds for a couple of jobs. What employer is going to do that? Is it discrimination to reject any applicant that doesn't have a type rating? Especially if they have hours on something similar. The other problem, after proving it is getting a job when you have sued an airline............I'll leave you all to consider which pile your cv would go in then. I have a friend who lost thousands when SECOAT went under. He had grounds to sue the CAA but chose not to and just take the loss himself due to career prospects after suing the CAA! (Ok I know, plenty would pat him on the back and put him in the right seat but it didn't look that good to him when he was in the position!)
I agree that large employers employ staff to run selection processes, but plenty of the smaller operators still work on word of mouth recommendations (against EU law?) I'm not putting the moral argument for binning half the applications, just pointing out what I believe has happened at some stage in the past and no doubt will continue to happen in the future.
PP
I see your point but with many aspects of employment law try proving it. Easier if you work for a company already, but as an applicant how are you going to prove anything? You can't just say I've applied hundreds of times to the same airline and haven't had a phone call, because as we all know there are plenty of others in the same boat. Let's take the other side of the coin. If you will employ a pilot with 250hrs does that mean you have to allow every other pilot with 250hrs or more to come for interview?(assuming they all meet the other criterion). That could be hundreds for a couple of jobs. What employer is going to do that? Is it discrimination to reject any applicant that doesn't have a type rating? Especially if they have hours on something similar. The other problem, after proving it is getting a job when you have sued an airline............I'll leave you all to consider which pile your cv would go in then. I have a friend who lost thousands when SECOAT went under. He had grounds to sue the CAA but chose not to and just take the loss himself due to career prospects after suing the CAA! (Ok I know, plenty would pat him on the back and put him in the right seat but it didn't look that good to him when he was in the position!)
I agree that large employers employ staff to run selection processes, but plenty of the smaller operators still work on word of mouth recommendations (against EU law?) I'm not putting the moral argument for binning half the applications, just pointing out what I believe has happened at some stage in the past and no doubt will continue to happen in the future.
PP
