Relationship during first years
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Relationship during first years
Hello everyone! This is my firs post here. I am looking into getting an ATPL, and want to work for airlines. I am portuguese, and am living in Portugal. My decision in terms of becoming a pilot or not is really about family life and my relationship. I am in a loving long term and I am not ready to throw it down the drain because of my job. My question is, will I be jumping around from country to country in the beggining of my career as a pilot? My girlfriend says she would not mind moving to another country, and we have talked about it for long. She and I are both finishing our Engineering degrees (she in Chemical Eng), and so, if we moved, she would find a job and make her career there. This would not be possible, however, if I was moving around a lot, as I don't think I would even be able to ask her to quit her job to move with me. Long haul flying is out of the question for me, even if later on the career, as I want to have children, and do not feel good about spending that much time away from them. Any help is appreciated, even if not completely related to the questions I asked. Thank you, everyone.
Hello everyone! This is my firs post here. I am looking into getting an ATPL, and want to work for airlines. I am portuguese, and am living in Portugal. My decision in terms of becoming a pilot or not is really about family life and my relationship. I am in a loving long term and I am not ready to throw it down the drain because of my job. My question is, will I be jumping around from country to country in the beggining of my career as a pilot? My girlfriend says she would not mind moving to another country, and we have talked about it for long. She and I are both finishing our Engineering degrees (she in Chemical Eng), and so, if we moved, she would find a job and make her career there. This would not be possible, however, if I was moving around a lot, as I don't think I would even be able to ask her to quit her job to move with me. Long haul flying is out of the question for me, even if later on the career, as I want to have children, and do not feel good about spending that much time away from them. Any help is appreciated, even if not completely related to the questions I asked. Thank you, everyone.
The good news is that a home base, home
every night is entirely possible and not that unusual. The bad news is of course that doesn’t always happen for years and you will not be able to be choosy for your first job. The very bad news is that in the next inevitable downturn you may find yourself having to take a job somewhere totally random again.
Long Haul can actually give you more time at home than short haul, depending on the roster. This job is massively variable and what works for one relationship may not work for another - my wife is happy (maybe even grateful
) to have me away for a while and then home for 4 days or so.If you operate for one of the big European LOCOs then yes you may well have a random base somewhere initially - it may well be commutable if you are on a 5/4 roster for the likes of RYR, and you will be able to bid for a base you want eventually - but Portugal will be a popular choice! Equally if you get a corporate job with a gateway airport this can make life easier, but it all depends on the employer. You’re right that for your first job you won’t really be able to be choosy. A huge upside of a EU passport is the ability to work anywhere in Europe. A downside of a EU passport is, ironically, that your employer can make you work anywhere in Europe.You will have some jobs that offer you the base you want - but that may be at a sacrifice of earning/career progression or satisfaction.
I am away for a chunk of the month - this is my choice, because the chunks of time at home are such high quality and I am not close enough to my base to fly day trips. Those who live closer to base can just do day trips and be home every night - and for those senior enough, you can have a very predictable lifestyle - however I am at a seniority based airline, which at a low seniority level is a lot less predictable roster wise than RYR/EZY. Long haul can offer more time at home/a more commutable life if you’re not living near base, even if it is interspersed with 5 or more days away.
A home base with day trips is entirely possible at a LOCO airline, as day trips is how their rosters work, but likely not initially at your base of choice for a couple of years and of course there are vagaries of markets and whether you need to move base for a command etc. That said, you may luck out and be in a home base fairly quickly.
If you don’t like time away from home then do think long and hard about this career - I’m not saying don’t do it, but I am saying you need to think about what you may have to do in the event of a downturn, I am sure many others on here can vouch for the bizarre contracts in far off places you can end up flying to keep a roof over your family’s heads. In addition, even if you do get, say, a RYR base on 5/4 in Faro, your 5 days on will be hard work and you will be working long hours.
Historically I have always worked on the following, decreasing, priorities for a job:
Base
Roster
Salary
Stability
Progression
I’ve known quite a few friends retire saying they wish they’d prioritised their family more, I’ve not yet known one who wishes they’d spent more time in the cruise in the HLA. Well done for coming to that realisation so early on.
Last edited by Speed_Trim_Fail; 17th Mar 2024 at 10:15.
Rudestuff, you really are a rude young man.
Whenever I talk to the new pilots coming through about relationships, I always say this:
If you find someone before you start your training, the relationship will last, even when you're earning the big bucks! The entire training process is long and hard. It requires a lot of attention and focus and your partner will need to understand that sometimes they will be second best to the training. If your relationship survives this, then not only can it survive anything, but it will pay off when you're earning (guess what) the big bucks!
If you find someone after your training, you'll end up like those Captains who have a girl in every city! Now I'm jealous...
Whenever I talk to the new pilots coming through about relationships, I always say this:
If you find someone before you start your training, the relationship will last, even when you're earning the big bucks! The entire training process is long and hard. It requires a lot of attention and focus and your partner will need to understand that sometimes they will be second best to the training. If your relationship survives this, then not only can it survive anything, but it will pay off when you're earning (guess what) the big bucks!
If you find someone after your training, you'll end up like those Captains who have a girl in every city! Now I'm jealous...
My girlfriend says she would not mind moving to another country, and we have talked about it for long. She and I are both finishing our Engineering degrees (she in Chemical Eng), and so, if we moved, she would find a job and make her career there. This would not be possible, however, if I was moving around a lot, as I don't think I would even be able to ask her to quit her job to move with me. Long haul flying is out of the question for me, even if later on the career, as I want to have children, and do not feel good about spending that much time away from them.
You need to really want this and be ready to sacrifice everything, otherwise it's not for you.
On the other hand, as a Portuguese you have a little bit easier to go firefighting (due to language). Maybe go and explore this path of aviation.
Although that will require quite a lot of single PIC time. The advantage is that you can skip IR and multi training and become an FI straight away. Once you collect the hours (about 2 years as an FI), you can try your chance.
Money wise it's reasonable, usually standard full time employment and can be extremely satisfying, plus giving you plenty of time home in low season.
Although that will require quite a lot of single PIC time. The advantage is that you can skip IR and multi training and become an FI straight away. Once you collect the hours (about 2 years as an FI), you can try your chance.
Money wise it's reasonable, usually standard full time employment and can be extremely satisfying, plus giving you plenty of time home in low season.
If you're serious about becoming a professional pilot, you'll need to forget about a girlfreid or friends for a year or two because to even finish flight training requires a lot of dedication and effort. Girlfriends are always a distraction because they will never really understand what it takes, and so you'll either start but not finish because they'll complain you're not spending enough time with them (you'll know about this when doing ATPL theory) or you'll start, barely finish but still be stuck. Because as a freshly minted pilot yearning for experience you'll need to be able to move anywhere for that first flying job. A girlfriend, as supportive as she might be, will still make it hard for you to make a decision and you'll eventually just wait for that perfect dream airline job close to home and close to the girlfriend which will probably never materialize.
You need to really want this and be ready to sacrifice everything, otherwise it's not for you.
You need to really want this and be ready to sacrifice everything, otherwise it's not for you.
If you're serious about becoming a professional pilot, you'll need to forget about a girlfreid or friends for a year or two because to even finish flight training requires a lot of dedication and effort. Girlfriends are always a distraction because they will never really understand what it takes, and so you'll either start but not finish because they'll complain you're not spending enough time with them (you'll know about this when doing ATPL theory) or you'll start, barely finish but still be stuck. Because as a freshly minted pilot yearning for experience you'll need to be able to move anywhere for that first flying job. A girlfriend, as supportive as she might be, will still make it hard for you to make a decision and you'll eventually just wait for that perfect dream airline job close to home and close to the girlfriend which will probably never materialize.
You need to really want this and be ready to sacrifice everything, otherwise it's not for you.
You need to really want this and be ready to sacrifice everything, otherwise it's not for you.
I wholeheartedly disagree.
I met a girl two months before I started my PPL. She was an exchange student and I didn't expect the relationship to last beyond her program. I completed the PPL through an intense, 6-week course, and I was straight up with her that I would be focused on my training. When finished, we continued dating for the remainder of her exchange. When that came to an end, I decided to travel the 13,800 km to her country for a visit. That visit turned into a move, and I completed my professional licenses in her country. She never complained once when I had to hunker down to study, or be gone almost every weekend, or go to places in her country she'd only ever read about. She never complained because we talked ahead of time about the financial and time demands the next course would require of me. She never complained when I swapped jobs in those first few years either because I was upfront about how that change would help my career and our future. Then when it came time to build multi-time for the airlines, it was she that pushed for the move out of her country and back to mine. We moved overseas (again), this time into the high arctic to another town both of us had only seen in textbooks. 7 years later when it came time to move companies again, she made arrangements with her company to continue working, despite moving 1,700 km away. When the airlines began hiring again, she didn't blink when I said I'd be commuting clear across the country for up to 20 days a month.
We just celebrated our 24th wedding anniversary. She was never a distraction, she often got what this industry requires before I did, and she never held me back from completing the exams, tests, or moves that I needed to do.
Now, not all partners will be like this. I know lots of guys and gals whose boyfriends and girlfriends couldn't deal with the demands. But the same goes for doctor and lawyer friends of mine. Any profession has its unique difficulties. It is not on our partners to understand those difficulties on their own. You have to communicate the financial and time demands this profession requires to get into it. Otherwise, it's not the profession they don't understand, it's you. It's also a two-way street. There are opportunities I've passed on because that was a red line for my wife. Do I miss the chance of not going into the Air Force or moving to fly in some tropical island, yes. But that ensured my relationship remained intact.
Where I do slightly agree is that you will have to sacrifice. There are no jobs, or at least none that readily lead to the airlines, that allow you to have your cake and eat it too. If you want to get to the airlines quickly, you will have to sacrifice time with friends and family. That doesn't mean all the time, but it does mean more than you probably think. If you're not willing to sacrifice time with family, then it means you won't be flying as much, sacrificing your career path. It's a delicate balance that you're more than likely going to strike wrong more often than you strike right. But communication is key.
For example, I was a standards pilot for my previous aircraft type. That means I drove a desk far more than I drove airplanes. I built most of the training programs, taught a little, and did more than a few check rides in a month. This all kept me home and pretty much on a 9-5, Monday to Friday schedule and was a mentally stimulating job. It also allowed me to be home for the vast majority of my sons first 7 years. But, I went from flying 700 hours a year to I believe my best in the office was 120 hours. The worst was 50 hours. There were more than a few times where I'd be sitting at my desk to realize I'd not flown in 80 or 90 days, and instead of going flying, I'd take another standards pilot down to our simulator to bash out the required takeoffs and landings, and be good for another 90 days. All because I had too much work to leave the office. So while my family life was amazing, my career took a different turn and flying definately took a back seat. While I still gained seniority, I passed on several opportunities to move over to the jet, which has affected my long term earnings potential - by almost a million dollars.
When I did swap to our jet, I came back to the line. I now get blocked between 9 to 16 days a month, depending on how I bid. If I get a 9-day month, those are all heavy credit 1-days where I will see my wife and son for maybe 15 minutes in the morning. Those are great months though, because I'll have the rest of the month off to be with them. If it's nearing 16-days a month, that'll be low to medium credit 3, 4, or 5-day pairings. Best case, it's an easy pairing with lots of time to call home. However, there is probably 1 pairing every month and a half or so where, because of time zone differences, I don't get a chance to call home for the entire time I'm gone. Those suck. But, I make it a point that when I'm home, I'm home. That is family time. I do what I need to while they're at work and school, but as soon as they're home, I'm theirs. I know lots of other guys and gals I fly with have the same mentality, and it makes family time more meaningful than it might otherwise be.
So no, you do not have to be ready to sacrifice everything, or forget about relationships during your schooling, or cut yourself off from the rest of humanity to chase a dream. Whatever challenges you and your girlfriend have already overcome during your engineering degrees will be transferable to your aviation path. Just with maybe a little more time away from home. Just be open and honest, listen to what she has to say and be willing to not take the first opportunity. There is more to life than flying, and some people don't get that until it's much too late.
Last edited by +TSRA; 18th Mar 2024 at 15:31. Reason: spelling, grammar
I wholeheartedly disagree.
I met a girl two months before I started my PPL. She was an exchange student and I didn't expect the relationship to last beyond her program. I completed the PPL through an intense, 6-week course, and I was straight up with her that I would be focused on my training. When finished, we continued dating for the remainder of her exchange. When that came to an end, I decided to travel the 13,800 km to her country for a visit. That visit turned into a move, and I completed my professional licenses in her country. She never complained once when I had to hunker down to study, or be gone almost every weekend, or go to places in her country she'd only ever read about. She never complained because we talked ahead of time about the financial and time demands the next course would require of me. She never complained when I swapped jobs in those first few years either because I was upfront about how that change would help my career and our future. Then when it came time to build multi-time for the airlines, it was she that pushed for the move out of her country and back to mine. We moved overseas (again), this time into the high arctic to another town both of us had only seen in textbooks. 7 years later when it came time to move companies again, she made arrangements with her company to continue working, despite moving 1,700 km away. When the airlines began hiring again, she didn't blink when I said I'd be commuting clear across the country for up to 20 days a month.
We just celebrated our 24th wedding anniversary. She was never a distraction, she often got what this industry requires before I did, and she never held me back from completing the exams, tests, or moves that I needed to do.
Now, not all partners will be like this. I know lots of guys and gals whose boyfriends and girlfriends couldn't deal with the demands. But the same goes for doctor and lawyer friends of mine. Any profession has its unique difficulties. It is not on our partners to understand those difficulties on their own. You have to communicate the financial and time demands this profession requires to get into it. Otherwise, it's not the profession they don't understand, it's you. It's also a two-way street. There are opportunities I've passed on because that was a red line for my wife. Do I miss the chance of not going into the Air Force or moving to fly in some tropical island, yes. But that ensured my relationship remained intact.
Where I do slightly agree is that you will have to sacrifice. There are no jobs, or at least none that readily lead to the airlines, that allow you to have your cake and eat it too. If you want to get to the airlines quickly, you will have to sacrifice time with friends and family. That doesn't mean all the time, but it does mean more than you probably think. If you're not willing to sacrifice time with family, then it means you won't be flying as much, sacrificing your career path. It's a delicate balance that you're more than likely going to strike wrong more often than you strike right. But communication is key.
For example, I was a standards pilot for my previous aircraft type. That means I drove a desk far more than I drove airplanes. I built most of the training programs, taught a little, and did more than a few check rides in a month. This all kept me home and pretty much on a 9-5, Monday to Friday schedule and was a mentally stimulating job. It also allowed me to be home for the vast majority of my sons first 7 years. But, I went from flying 700 hours a year to I believe my best in the office was 120 hours. The worst was 50 hours. There were more than a few times where I'd be sitting at my desk to realize I'd not flown in 80 or 90 days, and instead of going flying, I'd take another standards pilot down to our simulator to bash out the required takeoffs and landings, and be good for another 90 days. All because I had too much work to leave the office. So while my family life was amazing, my career took a different turn and flying definately took a back seat. While I still gained seniority, I passed on several opportunities to move over to the jet, which has affected my long term earnings potential - by almost a million dollars.
When I did swap to our jet, I came back to the line. I now get blocked between 9 to 16 days a month, depending on how I bid. If I get a 9-day month, those are all heavy credit 1-days where I will see my wife and son for maybe 15 minutes in the morning. Those are great months though, because I'll have the rest of the month off to be with them. If it's nearing 16-days a month, that'll be low to medium credit 3, 4, or 5-day pairings. Best case, it's an easy pairing with lots of time to call home. However, there is probably 1 pairing every month and a half or so where, because of time zone differences, I don't get a chance to call home for the entire time I'm gone. Those suck. But, I make it a point that when I'm home, I'm home. That is family time. I do what I need to while they're at work and school, but as soon as they're home, I'm theirs. I know lots of other guys and gals I fly with have the same mentality, and it makes family time more meaningful than it might otherwise be.
So no, you do not have to be ready to sacrifice everything, or forget about relationships during your schooling, or cut yourself off from the rest of humanity to chase a dream. Whatever challenges you and your girlfriend have already overcome during your engineering degrees will be transferable to your aviation path. Just with maybe a little more time away from home. Just be open and honest, listen to what she has to say and be willing to not take the first opportunity. There is more to life than flying, and some people don't get that until it's much too late.
I met a girl two months before I started my PPL. She was an exchange student and I didn't expect the relationship to last beyond her program. I completed the PPL through an intense, 6-week course, and I was straight up with her that I would be focused on my training. When finished, we continued dating for the remainder of her exchange. When that came to an end, I decided to travel the 13,800 km to her country for a visit. That visit turned into a move, and I completed my professional licenses in her country. She never complained once when I had to hunker down to study, or be gone almost every weekend, or go to places in her country she'd only ever read about. She never complained because we talked ahead of time about the financial and time demands the next course would require of me. She never complained when I swapped jobs in those first few years either because I was upfront about how that change would help my career and our future. Then when it came time to build multi-time for the airlines, it was she that pushed for the move out of her country and back to mine. We moved overseas (again), this time into the high arctic to another town both of us had only seen in textbooks. 7 years later when it came time to move companies again, she made arrangements with her company to continue working, despite moving 1,700 km away. When the airlines began hiring again, she didn't blink when I said I'd be commuting clear across the country for up to 20 days a month.
We just celebrated our 24th wedding anniversary. She was never a distraction, she often got what this industry requires before I did, and she never held me back from completing the exams, tests, or moves that I needed to do.
Now, not all partners will be like this. I know lots of guys and gals whose boyfriends and girlfriends couldn't deal with the demands. But the same goes for doctor and lawyer friends of mine. Any profession has its unique difficulties. It is not on our partners to understand those difficulties on their own. You have to communicate the financial and time demands this profession requires to get into it. Otherwise, it's not the profession they don't understand, it's you. It's also a two-way street. There are opportunities I've passed on because that was a red line for my wife. Do I miss the chance of not going into the Air Force or moving to fly in some tropical island, yes. But that ensured my relationship remained intact.
Where I do slightly agree is that you will have to sacrifice. There are no jobs, or at least none that readily lead to the airlines, that allow you to have your cake and eat it too. If you want to get to the airlines quickly, you will have to sacrifice time with friends and family. That doesn't mean all the time, but it does mean more than you probably think. If you're not willing to sacrifice time with family, then it means you won't be flying as much, sacrificing your career path. It's a delicate balance that you're more than likely going to strike wrong more often than you strike right. But communication is key.
For example, I was a standards pilot for my previous aircraft type. That means I drove a desk far more than I drove airplanes. I built most of the training programs, taught a little, and did more than a few check rides in a month. This all kept me home and pretty much on a 9-5, Monday to Friday schedule and was a mentally stimulating job. It also allowed me to be home for the vast majority of my sons first 7 years. But, I went from flying 700 hours a year to I believe my best in the office was 120 hours. The worst was 50 hours. There were more than a few times where I'd be sitting at my desk to realize I'd not flown in 80 or 90 days, and instead of going flying, I'd take another standards pilot down to our simulator to bash out the required takeoffs and landings, and be good for another 90 days. All because I had too much work to leave the office. So while my family life was amazing, my career took a different turn and flying definately took a back seat. While I still gained seniority, I passed on several opportunities to move over to the jet, which has affected my long term earnings potential - by almost a million dollars.
When I did swap to our jet, I came back to the line. I now get blocked between 9 to 16 days a month, depending on how I bid. If I get a 9-day month, those are all heavy credit 1-days where I will see my wife and son for maybe 15 minutes in the morning. Those are great months though, because I'll have the rest of the month off to be with them. If it's nearing 16-days a month, that'll be low to medium credit 3, 4, or 5-day pairings. Best case, it's an easy pairing with lots of time to call home. However, there is probably 1 pairing every month and a half or so where, because of time zone differences, I don't get a chance to call home for the entire time I'm gone. Those suck. But, I make it a point that when I'm home, I'm home. That is family time. I do what I need to while they're at work and school, but as soon as they're home, I'm theirs. I know lots of other guys and gals I fly with have the same mentality, and it makes family time more meaningful than it might otherwise be.
So no, you do not have to be ready to sacrifice everything, or forget about relationships during your schooling, or cut yourself off from the rest of humanity to chase a dream. Whatever challenges you and your girlfriend have already overcome during your engineering degrees will be transferable to your aviation path. Just with maybe a little more time away from home. Just be open and honest, listen to what she has to say and be willing to not take the first opportunity. There is more to life than flying, and some people don't get that until it's much too late.
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I would say it is impossible to know how a certain relationship or person will react to you becoming a pilot. That's why it's key for you to be fully honest about what you are willing to sacrifice and risk.
Pilot training will put you under a fair amount of personal, economic and academic stress and that stress will also be felt by all the people around you, parents, relatives, siblings, and of course your partner. Sometimes you will have to choose and prioritise how you focus your energy, time and money, and sometimes the people closest to you might completely disagree.
Whether you succeed or fail at becoming a pilot and work for an airline, there will be loads of hard work and a fair amount of personal turbulence. Some families from Southern Mediterranean countries can be quite "narrow minded" and will simply not tolerate your new "high status" above them, some families will simply not accept it, others will support you no matter what. It's all about maturity, values and common goals I guess.
Not all family and romantic relationships are meant to last, it's great that you wanna be a pilot, I wish you best of luck, and hopefully your family and partner will stay by your side no matter what.
Pilot training will put you under a fair amount of personal, economic and academic stress and that stress will also be felt by all the people around you, parents, relatives, siblings, and of course your partner. Sometimes you will have to choose and prioritise how you focus your energy, time and money, and sometimes the people closest to you might completely disagree.
Whether you succeed or fail at becoming a pilot and work for an airline, there will be loads of hard work and a fair amount of personal turbulence. Some families from Southern Mediterranean countries can be quite "narrow minded" and will simply not tolerate your new "high status" above them, some families will simply not accept it, others will support you no matter what. It's all about maturity, values and common goals I guess.
Not all family and romantic relationships are meant to last, it's great that you wanna be a pilot, I wish you best of luck, and hopefully your family and partner will stay by your side no matter what.
Last edited by flying free.LEVC; 19th Mar 2024 at 11:11.
