The right call at DA/DH?
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The right call at DA/DH?
I have now been presented with few variations of this call, during my MCC i was told the call should be Decide, as this was a more positive orientated mind set to initiate a go-around, if required.
However other places I have been told to use: Minimums?
I am sure there are probably other variations out there too, however just wondering which one of these is the more "correct" one? or is it another variation?
However other places I have been told to use: Minimums?
I am sure there are probably other variations out there too, however just wondering which one of these is the more "correct" one? or is it another variation?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
PNF says "Decide"
PF says "Land" or "go around"
PF says "Land" or "go around"
"Continue"
Just because you are below minimums does not mean a landing is assured or safe, all it means is you have the required visual references to continue the approach, saying landing or decide is fine, but what if something happens after the minimum height is passed and a landing is no longer safe, ie runway incursion, strong gust, windshear, etc
Just because you are below minimums does not mean a landing is assured or safe, all it means is you have the required visual references to continue the approach, saying landing or decide is fine, but what if something happens after the minimum height is passed and a landing is no longer safe, ie runway incursion, strong gust, windshear, etc
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Different operators will have different SOP calls at this point. Don't stress too much what your MCC provider has specified - that is their SOP and your first employer may well have something else.
The crucial thing to take away is that DA/DH is a minimum altitude/height which you must recognise and respond to with an appropriate action.
The crucial thing to take away is that DA/DH is a minimum altitude/height which you must recognise and respond to with an appropriate action.
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You wouldn't believe the amount of time thats used on debating what bloody word to use either.
The great "continue" debate.
Just wait until you get into the huge debate about if the parking brake is "set" or "on" the hours wasted discussing that crutial to flight safety wording that must have been done round the world.
The great "continue" debate.
Just wait until you get into the huge debate about if the parking brake is "set" or "on" the hours wasted discussing that crutial to flight safety wording that must have been done round the world.
Well MJ I suppose 'set' would refer to the position of the park brake lever, and ON would apply if you knew the brakes had actually been applied.........
Okay I will leave quietly!!!
Okay I will leave quietly!!!
just wondering which one of these is the more "correct" one? or is it another variation?
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"Continue"
Just because you are below minimums does not mean a landing is assured or safe, all it means is you have the required visual references to continue the approach, saying landing or decide is fine, but what if something happens after the minimum height is passed and a landing is no longer safe, ie runway incursion, strong gust, windshear, etc
Just because you are below minimums does not mean a landing is assured or safe, all it means is you have the required visual references to continue the approach, saying landing or decide is fine, but what if something happens after the minimum height is passed and a landing is no longer safe, ie runway incursion, strong gust, windshear, etc
A company I used to work for changed a cupel of years ago from landing to continue,If I am not mistaken this was a manufacturers suggestion.
The call out landing, gives me the impression you are somehow committed to land and we all know that even passing the minimums, even if having runway environment, things can always not go according to plan.
I agree with the above quote, as it makes more sense to me, you continue and commence landing unless it becomes unsafe to do so
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To be honest 95% of the time the call at mins isn't really anything to do with landing the aircraft anyway. The runway will be in sight well before the minimums or decide call.
Its secondary function is a incapacitation check.
Its secondary function is a incapacitation check.
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nope not necessary unless ur flying on a good day
as u approach minimums u have to decide either to initiate missed approach or continue to land
if you decide at minimums to initiate the missed approach procedure then you will bust the minimums as the aircraft will take time to climb
therefore you add 50 feet to minimums in the fms to avoid the bust
and always remember the final call is made by PIC at that time
as u approach minimums u have to decide either to initiate missed approach or continue to land
if you decide at minimums to initiate the missed approach procedure then you will bust the minimums as the aircraft will take time to climb
therefore you add 50 feet to minimums in the fms to avoid the bust
and always remember the final call is made by PIC at that time
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and if you have the visual of the runway environment u can continue below minimums but at any point before landing if u feel it is unsafe then you proceed with missed approach
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Minimums is utter rubish either minimum (singular) or minima (plural)
i`d go for the singular as there is only ONE minimum.
As for the call; "**** cant see a thing, lets fock off"
i`d go for the singular as there is only ONE minimum.
As for the call; "**** cant see a thing, lets fock off"
If auto call outs are operating then the aircraft anounces 'minima', if they are not working then the PNF announces 'decide'.
PF either calls 'land' or 'go-around flap'
That is how it works at the airline I work for, you will find minor variances depending on type / airline.
As stated above the 'land' call doesn't guarantee a landing but instead that at the DA/DH you have the required visibility to continue. If at any point the vis drops below that required you then go around, up to and including the point at which you select 'reverse thrust'.
Virani, as far as I am aware the use of a DA/DH does NOT require the addition of 50' as it is built into the approach design to allow the aircraft a tolerance of going below whilst the engines spool up.
If using a MDH/MDA then you do require the 50' additive as this is a not below altitude.
PF either calls 'land' or 'go-around flap'
That is how it works at the airline I work for, you will find minor variances depending on type / airline.
As stated above the 'land' call doesn't guarantee a landing but instead that at the DA/DH you have the required visibility to continue. If at any point the vis drops below that required you then go around, up to and including the point at which you select 'reverse thrust'.
Virani, as far as I am aware the use of a DA/DH does NOT require the addition of 50' as it is built into the approach design to allow the aircraft a tolerance of going below whilst the engines spool up.
If using a MDH/MDA then you do require the 50' additive as this is a not below altitude.
Last edited by Ollie Onion; 23rd May 2012 at 10:18.
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Virani, as far as I am aware the use of a DA/DH does NOT require the addition of 50' as it is built into the approach design to allow the aircraft a tolerance of going below whilst the engines spool up.
Last edited by CY333; 23rd May 2012 at 11:59.