Petition the goverment!
Join Date: Apr 2005
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In a rush sorry, but you get me wrong. Dont forget Luke, that you are on a probationary period with a company whether it be today or the mid 90s mate! This can be up to 6 months believe it or not! So even after you finish your rating regardless who paid for it that aint no firm job offer.
You can think about that on your way back to Palma
You can think about that on your way back to Palma
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I agree this petition is short sighted stupidity at best. Putting the money together for flight training appears to be somewhat proportional to the effort expended once that training is underway. If it were subsidised then it would be open to abuse left, right and centre. Look at the number of so called further education college or even university places that filled by young people who rarely if ever attend classes but enroll simply because their mates did and gives them somewhere to meet up during the day. If they had to pay the full amount to enroll onto the course then I doubt many would. It's only because these courses are relatively cheap, subsidised or in some cases paid for from the public purse that these students sign up.
You'd get a lot of people claiming that the system is prejudiced and they didn't receive funding/subsidy when someone else did. The solution would be to have a level playing field and provide money for anyone. But then we're at square one again, far too many people. What's the solution let me see, ah yes , testing to fund all the most capable and suitable aka RAF sytle. Can you see what's happening here .... the public purse used to fund flight training .... full circle. You turn up, get tested and if successful get a place on an airline training scheme. Just like it used to be and guess what, everyone who fails (the vast majority) will be complaining that they should have the opportunity to fund their own private training if they so wish.... round and round we go. Now we look at the attracive issue of VAT exemption then I'm very happy about that or at least a 'part and part' system of some kind, where the VAT could perhaps be postponed or only paid once in full airline/air carrier employment. If not then you didn't pay VAT in the first place. This might even hurt Ryanair as many students contemplating the imminent repayment of the VAT portion of the course fees would think twice about throwing themselves at the likes of Ryanair.
A further danger of this petition is how it can be manipulated by the government and used against you if they wish. They can fund all manner of student dropouts, ethnic minorities, kids previously in trouble with the law, etc to attend these courses at the expense of your place on a course. It has happened in schools, colleges and universities, where very bright and in some cases gifted students out quite simply left out in the cold. Don't attract the attention of the government they help but unfortunately only themselves.
You'd get a lot of people claiming that the system is prejudiced and they didn't receive funding/subsidy when someone else did. The solution would be to have a level playing field and provide money for anyone. But then we're at square one again, far too many people. What's the solution let me see, ah yes , testing to fund all the most capable and suitable aka RAF sytle. Can you see what's happening here .... the public purse used to fund flight training .... full circle. You turn up, get tested and if successful get a place on an airline training scheme. Just like it used to be and guess what, everyone who fails (the vast majority) will be complaining that they should have the opportunity to fund their own private training if they so wish.... round and round we go. Now we look at the attracive issue of VAT exemption then I'm very happy about that or at least a 'part and part' system of some kind, where the VAT could perhaps be postponed or only paid once in full airline/air carrier employment. If not then you didn't pay VAT in the first place. This might even hurt Ryanair as many students contemplating the imminent repayment of the VAT portion of the course fees would think twice about throwing themselves at the likes of Ryanair.
A further danger of this petition is how it can be manipulated by the government and used against you if they wish. They can fund all manner of student dropouts, ethnic minorities, kids previously in trouble with the law, etc to attend these courses at the expense of your place on a course. It has happened in schools, colleges and universities, where very bright and in some cases gifted students out quite simply left out in the cold. Don't attract the attention of the government they help but unfortunately only themselves.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Mr. Ryder said:
Not really sure what your point here was. Did you mean that if you haven't got the cash you shouldn't even try? Keep it among the monied few, eh?
Personally I hate debt. I hate owing and I hate being owed. But at times it can serve a necessary purpose. Right now I don't owe a penny. I'm working as hard as I can, in a physically demanding job, just so that I can save enough to complete my training modularly. My plan is to have a fATPL and still not owe a penny.
Now, Shaun Ryder, I am willing to
(presumably from the bottom). However, chances are I'll still be required to fund a type rating. So what do I do?
What does a fledgling pilot, who is totally against paying for a type rating, do? Everyone else seems to be paying for one, so, regardless of whether I'm the best damn pilot out there or not, if I'm not willing to pay for a TR it's 'see-ya-later...'
Its a fact of todays society that there are more people in debt than ever before, mainly down to people trying to live above their means. Petitioning the Govt as said will do 5hag all, they are too busy subsidising immigrants / hugging hoodies etc.
Sorry to be harsh, but some of you guys should open your eyes and realise that maybe a flying career is not for you. Just because you have always wanted to do it is no excuse, I always wanted to be a millionaire playboy living in Monaco but hey!
Sorry to be harsh, but some of you guys should open your eyes and realise that maybe a flying career is not for you. Just because you have always wanted to do it is no excuse, I always wanted to be a millionaire playboy living in Monaco but hey!
Personally I hate debt. I hate owing and I hate being owed. But at times it can serve a necessary purpose. Right now I don't owe a penny. I'm working as hard as I can, in a physically demanding job, just so that I can save enough to complete my training modularly. My plan is to have a fATPL and still not owe a penny.
Now, Shaun Ryder, I am willing to
work [my] way up to the top
What does a fledgling pilot, who is totally against paying for a type rating, do? Everyone else seems to be paying for one, so, regardless of whether I'm the best damn pilot out there or not, if I'm not willing to pay for a TR it's 'see-ya-later...'
Join Date: May 2001
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So I take it you agree with paying for a type rating, Superpilot? Do you think it's a good barrier to keeping the supply down? (genuine question; I'm not being sarcastic)
1.) Flight Instructor job, risking life and limb, earning a pittance that wouldn’t even cover 2/3rds my monthly outgoings.
2.) Waiting for 2-4 years for a very lucky chance with a turboprop operator based on some remote Island far away from the place I call home.
3.) Giving up.
...Paying for my type rating in order to kick-start my career, providing that there's a reasonably good chance of a job offer at the end and that the employer is respectable and offers a respectable starting salary, suddenly sounds like a very good decision (both financially and for my life situation)
Paying for a type rating, however much I or anyone dislikes them, is something that is now here to stay forever. Denying that reality would be foolish. With regards to it "being a barrier to keep supply down". I don't believe that's entirely true because if people are silly and desperate enough to pay for flying training using a loan greater than £20k they're probably silly enough to take out another loan for the TR. The only way in which it is a barrier is because there are still a lot of people unwilling to pay for a TR as a matter of principle. My honest opinion is there are far more people willing to pay than those who are not and the club is growing by the day (PPruNe itself is witness to this). Before the day comes when everyone's willing to pay....I think I'll do it nice and early
Last edited by Superpilot; 7th Jun 2007 at 16:56.
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Train-ing
Someone above said that airlines will never pay for training because they are out there to make profit.
Train operating companies are out there to make profit as well-agreed?
Well, the training costs about £60k to be a train driver (about the same as flying), and guess what, ALL train companies pay for ALL of their driver training. In fact there is no way to do it privately-it's not allowed!
Rumour has it that there are about 300 applicants to every train driving vacancy-ok thats not as many as for airline jobs but its quite a few.
Is it really wise in the airline industry that candidates should have to pay for their own training? Many wannabes end up in debt. Some a lot of debt. That can cause stress and worry which could (and I stress could for I have no evidence) have a less than positive effect on flight safety.
If train companies can shell out £60k to train their drivers, I'm sure airlines can afford to train their pilots! Even if it were just preventing TRs from been done privately that would be start.
B
Train operating companies are out there to make profit as well-agreed?
Well, the training costs about £60k to be a train driver (about the same as flying), and guess what, ALL train companies pay for ALL of their driver training. In fact there is no way to do it privately-it's not allowed!
Rumour has it that there are about 300 applicants to every train driving vacancy-ok thats not as many as for airline jobs but its quite a few.
Is it really wise in the airline industry that candidates should have to pay for their own training? Many wannabes end up in debt. Some a lot of debt. That can cause stress and worry which could (and I stress could for I have no evidence) have a less than positive effect on flight safety.
If train companies can shell out £60k to train their drivers, I'm sure airlines can afford to train their pilots! Even if it were just preventing TRs from been done privately that would be start.
B
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If the multi pilot licence ever gets off the ground then don't you worry airlines will be paying for all that training. Only problem for the vast majority of wannabes is that they won't get a look in. It will be back to the cadet type schemes, pyscho this and verbal that and can you keep a cross hair in a square box whilst reciting Pythagoras theorem. That is the harsh reality.
Thing is the industry at the moment is about as good as it ever has been for the wannabe, in particular the modular student. Don't expect it to continue.
Thing is the industry at the moment is about as good as it ever has been for the wannabe, in particular the modular student. Don't expect it to continue.
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In answer to the poster who quoted me last. I suspect you are probably from a younger generation than I? Maybe you have been pandered to, wrapped in cotton wool, a politically corrrect upbringing where you are fed bull5hit by the media etc? I suppose that you are probably a fan of the x factor, maybe even big brother? Dont you think it would be great if they had a programme where young wannabees entered to get the job of a life time? Hell they could call it the atpl factor!! I am merely making a point here PIGDOG.
Are you willing to serve some form of apprenticeship? With the utmost respect to my fellow pilots be they instructors or air taxi pilots slogging their balls off, little monkeys like you who want to pay for their God given right to fly a jet stink!!! Seems the world is full of these 'I want it and I want it now' cretins.
All I am saying is put the work in and you will reap what you sow. Stamping your feet and crying about it wont help.
Are you willing to serve some form of apprenticeship? With the utmost respect to my fellow pilots be they instructors or air taxi pilots slogging their balls off, little monkeys like you who want to pay for their God given right to fly a jet stink!!! Seems the world is full of these 'I want it and I want it now' cretins.
All I am saying is put the work in and you will reap what you sow. Stamping your feet and crying about it wont help.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Shaun Ryder,
I'm not going to get into a slanging match with you. I'm going to try to keep this factual and respectful.
I may be younger than you, but I doubt I am a whole generation behind. If you think my upbringing was all cotton wool and cream - you have no idea. You really don't. A farm in rural Ireland where I had to work a number of hours of bloody hard work, before I went to school, and just as many after. That's before I did any homework and study.
I have been given no money by anyone, except what I have worked for. It has take me a couple of years to get this far and I suspect a couple more to get where I want to go. So I guess your assumption of me being a 'want it and want it NOW' young monkey is way off the mark.
I hate all these reality shows, big brother, exfactor etc. They turn my stomach.
In fact, you're completely off the mark with your assesment of me!!!!
Thanks for telling me I stink. Glad you think this is how someone of your 'generation' should behave. I if you had read my post before you would see that I was asking you what to do. I don't want to pay for a type rating. I want to work my way up. However, starting at the bottom still requires you pay 12k for a type rating nowadays.
Who says I'm stamping my feet and crying about it? I'm asking people here what to do about it.
I'm not going to get into a slanging match with you. I'm going to try to keep this factual and respectful.
I may be younger than you, but I doubt I am a whole generation behind. If you think my upbringing was all cotton wool and cream - you have no idea. You really don't. A farm in rural Ireland where I had to work a number of hours of bloody hard work, before I went to school, and just as many after. That's before I did any homework and study.
I have been given no money by anyone, except what I have worked for. It has take me a couple of years to get this far and I suspect a couple more to get where I want to go. So I guess your assumption of me being a 'want it and want it NOW' young monkey is way off the mark.
I hate all these reality shows, big brother, exfactor etc. They turn my stomach.
In fact, you're completely off the mark with your assesment of me!!!!
Thanks for telling me I stink. Glad you think this is how someone of your 'generation' should behave. I if you had read my post before you would see that I was asking you what to do. I don't want to pay for a type rating. I want to work my way up. However, starting at the bottom still requires you pay 12k for a type rating nowadays.
Who says I'm stamping my feet and crying about it? I'm asking people here what to do about it.
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I admire your response PIGDOG. Well done. Just goes to show when this paying for TR issue comes up most people are just not capable of thinking using their brains. The idea of paying for a TR isn't a million miles away from being bonded.
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NEW 2008 - 2009 Student Pilot Petition
