Sponsored schemes
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Sponsored schemes
Please could anyone let me know their opinions on airline "approved", "sponsored" and "mentored" scheme.
I am aware that they don’t guarantee a job with an airline, so what are the advantages as opposed to the self sponsored route? I have my own ideas but interested in what you guys think?
I am aware that they don’t guarantee a job with an airline, so what are the advantages as opposed to the self sponsored route? I have my own ideas but interested in what you guys think?
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Sponsorships, in the sense that someone else pays for your training, are dead - unless you join the military.
The other terms you quote (and the misused 'sponsorship') are often used by FTOs to enhance the appeal of their CPL/IR training products. They work on the basis that if they co-opt an airline's name to their product, you will have more faith in it and thus spend your money with them. It may not actually be promising or delivering anything that it wasn't before, but you are supposed to get a warm and fuzzy feeling that the airline cares about you and your training.
The only scheme I have seen that seems to deliver a reasonably firm chance of employment at the end of it is the CTC scheme in its various incarnations (what it's called depends who you get to it through!). None of the others seem to me to offer more than a promise of help to find you employment. That's fine, as far as it goes, but it's a long way from being promised a job!
Scroggs
The other terms you quote (and the misused 'sponsorship') are often used by FTOs to enhance the appeal of their CPL/IR training products. They work on the basis that if they co-opt an airline's name to their product, you will have more faith in it and thus spend your money with them. It may not actually be promising or delivering anything that it wasn't before, but you are supposed to get a warm and fuzzy feeling that the airline cares about you and your training.
The only scheme I have seen that seems to deliver a reasonably firm chance of employment at the end of it is the CTC scheme in its various incarnations (what it's called depends who you get to it through!). None of the others seem to me to offer more than a promise of help to find you employment. That's fine, as far as it goes, but it's a long way from being promised a job!
Scroggs
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Thank you for the response.
I was suppose to join the Thomsonfly scheme at FTE in November but wasn’t able to join on medical reasons. The class one medical sorted now.
I have paid the deposit to FTE and hope to join a Thomsonfly scheme in the near future, however if this doesn’t happen I will have to look into the self sponsored route.
These airline schemes are relatively new and the risk does seem to be entirely on the student. For someone considering starting training the probability of obtaining a job is a massive factor when consider the substantial investment required!
I am also a little confused to why so many low hour pilots are out of work. To me it seems a steady stream of pilots retire every year and need replacing, also with the massive increase in air travel I would think that airlines would have a great demand for pilots. In addition due to fully sponsored schemes being scrapped and the high cost of becoming a pilot, I assume that the number of new pilots becoming qualified every year is relatively small bearing in mind the size of the industry!
I was suppose to join the Thomsonfly scheme at FTE in November but wasn’t able to join on medical reasons. The class one medical sorted now.
I have paid the deposit to FTE and hope to join a Thomsonfly scheme in the near future, however if this doesn’t happen I will have to look into the self sponsored route.
These airline schemes are relatively new and the risk does seem to be entirely on the student. For someone considering starting training the probability of obtaining a job is a massive factor when consider the substantial investment required!
I am also a little confused to why so many low hour pilots are out of work. To me it seems a steady stream of pilots retire every year and need replacing, also with the massive increase in air travel I would think that airlines would have a great demand for pilots. In addition due to fully sponsored schemes being scrapped and the high cost of becoming a pilot, I assume that the number of new pilots becoming qualified every year is relatively small bearing in mind the size of the industry!
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The airline pilot industry is very small as industries go. I believe that last year OAT and Cabair graduated @800 students between them, there simply are not jobs available for everyone. The industry is expanding but also trying to cut costs at the same time, pilots are expensive - they'll use as few as possible to get the job done.
You take your chances in this game, but the best of luck.
You take your chances in this game, but the best of luck.
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No Sponsorship
If the days of sponsored training are dead, then what are Air Atlantique and Highland Airways to name but a few, doing. Ok, you need a PPL but that costs a hell of a lot less than going to Oxford etc!!!!!!!
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Air Atlantique are very much the exception to the rule, and the numbers are tiny. They also get their money's worth out of their cadets! It's an excellent scheme for those who can take it, but the opportunities of getting on it are so small that it barely merits mentioning here. The Highland Airways scheme, also very small (but very welcome), is now closed for 2006.
The numbers game is an interesting one. The industry is fairly small, but the UK major schools appear to be turning out more pilots than the industry can absorb. Then there is all the small schools' output.. Add to that the numbers of experienced foreign (mainly EU) pilots coming to work here, it's no real surprise that there aren't enough jobs. It was ever thus.
Scroggs
The numbers game is an interesting one. The industry is fairly small, but the UK major schools appear to be turning out more pilots than the industry can absorb. Then there is all the small schools' output.. Add to that the numbers of experienced foreign (mainly EU) pilots coming to work here, it's no real surprise that there aren't enough jobs. It was ever thus.
Scroggs
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I think suggesting that there are not enough jobs is a bit of a general and off-putting statement to newbies to be honest. In fact if you go to almost any airlines website you will find that they are nearly all looking for pilots with some experience say 1000 or 2000 hours, there are lots of jobs for these guys.....its the unexperienced who cant find jobs and lets be honest, that is the same in any industry in the world......EXPERIENCE IS KEY!
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Originally Posted by scroggs
Air Atlantique are very much the exception to the rule, and the numbers are tiny. They also get their money's worth out of their cadets! It's an excellent scheme for those who can take it, but the opportunities of getting on it are so small that it barely merits mentioning here. The Highland Airways scheme, also very small (but very welcome), is now closed for 2006.
Scroggs
Scroggs
But surely even if they are only small and slim chances of being successful, there is some light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe we will see some more of the smaller charter airlines doing schemes of their own. It certainly allows them to groom their cadets to the fashion that they're after.
If you are going self-sponsored, keep applying to everything and anything - luck may be on your side. "You gotta be in it, to win it!"
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Thanks for the advice.
Schemes such as air atlantique and highlands sound very good, how do you guys feel they compare to such mentored schemes as BA citi express and Thomsonfly.
Obviously the risk is much less with these fully sponsored schemes, however I assume the salary will be less and you will be tied into the airline for at least 4 years. Also if successful you won’t be flying boeing or airbus aircraft so the ability to move job will be less due to requiring expensive type rating training.
I think for any wannabe it is vital to get your foot in the door and gain experience with as little risk on yourself as possible, however in the long term schemes with more recognised airlines maybe better.
Schemes such as air atlantique and highlands sound very good, how do you guys feel they compare to such mentored schemes as BA citi express and Thomsonfly.
Obviously the risk is much less with these fully sponsored schemes, however I assume the salary will be less and you will be tied into the airline for at least 4 years. Also if successful you won’t be flying boeing or airbus aircraft so the ability to move job will be less due to requiring expensive type rating training.
I think for any wannabe it is vital to get your foot in the door and gain experience with as little risk on yourself as possible, however in the long term schemes with more recognised airlines maybe better.
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If you do manage to get on one of these schemes, the fact that the aircraft you will fly is not a B737 or A320 is not a disadvantage! What's the rush to get to these types anyway? Do none of you want to actually properly fly an aircraft, or is all you want an office in the air?! Ah well! Too many people can't see past the shiny jet to the job. It's the job you have to live with, not the jet.
Scroggs
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Originally Posted by scroggs
If you do manage to get on one of these schemes, the fact that the aircraft you will fly is not a B737 or A320 is not a disadvantage! What's the rush to get to these types anyway? Do none of you want to actually properly fly an aircraft, or is all you want an office in the air?! Ah well! Too many people can't see past the shiny jet to the job. It's the job you have to live with, not the jet.
Scroggs
Scroggs
I am trying to pluck the courage to go 'all in' and do my ATPL, but keep being off put by some of the crap I read on here!! Upon completing I would fly anything, and would certainly lap up hours in any turboprop.
I work for a UK airline, we have recently rexruited a pile of '2 stripers', who are all doing an excellent job!! But, it is not an easy task sitting in eg a 757 with a veteran on your left with 298700000000 hours under his/her belt.
Stop looking towards the shiny silvers, and look towards the big shiny 0's on your log books!!
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Thanks again for the responses.
I absolutely agree that hours and experience are vital for any pilot, especially a wannabe.
My point was that along with the £60k+ for training, type rating should also be considered which is very expensive.
For someone such as myself who is investing everything I own and then some to fulfil my dream of becoming a pilot, all factors should be considered (including economic ones) when making a decision on a chosen career path, for example cost of training, type rating, job “guarantee” (probability), loan repayments and final salary to name a few.
I absolutely agree that hours and experience are vital for any pilot, especially a wannabe.
My point was that along with the £60k+ for training, type rating should also be considered which is very expensive.
For someone such as myself who is investing everything I own and then some to fulfil my dream of becoming a pilot, all factors should be considered (including economic ones) when making a decision on a chosen career path, for example cost of training, type rating, job “guarantee” (probability), loan repayments and final salary to name a few.
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Good answer flash,
I absolutely agree - nice to see you thinking logically. I am in the same boat, I have a mortgage, and a loving girlie who I respect - I certainly dont want to risk her future along with mine!!
All the best
I absolutely agree - nice to see you thinking logically. I am in the same boat, I have a mortgage, and a loving girlie who I respect - I certainly dont want to risk her future along with mine!!
All the best
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The Highland Airways Scheme will take around 15-24 months for the training, during the training you are housed and paid £275/month beertokens, upon completion training you are likely to be FO on a Jetsream 31 retaining 90% of the Salary, (c. £20K/Year less 10%). You are then bonded to the company for 5 years. This is absolutely no problem at all. In an industry that is forever changing, incredibly fickle it's a damn shame that you're guarenteed paid employment for 5 years. Gaining invaluable experience in a real hands on flying environment.
It's a multi-crew environment, the (f)ATPL will very quickly become an ATPL. After 5 years, one could figure to have around 2,500-3,000 hours turbine twin time of which half may well be command. Suddenly if you want to get into the airlines you might find, that you won't need to pay for a type rating!
I personally cannot see why people of my age (meer pups..) want to fork out £60K with scabair/OAT/CTC and then let the autopilot fly them around for the next 40 years...
It's a multi-crew environment, the (f)ATPL will very quickly become an ATPL. After 5 years, one could figure to have around 2,500-3,000 hours turbine twin time of which half may well be command. Suddenly if you want to get into the airlines you might find, that you won't need to pay for a type rating!
I personally cannot see why people of my age (meer pups..) want to fork out £60K with scabair/OAT/CTC and then let the autopilot fly them around for the next 40 years...
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You are then bonded to the company for 5 years. This is absolutely no problem at all. In an industry that is forever changing, incredibly fickle it's a damn shame that you're guarenteed paid employment for 5 years.
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Even if you are then "released", are you likely to have to repay them? Surely not if they are "releasing" you?
Obviously I cannot say, because I am not on such a scheme (yet...) But the bottom line is - it offers hope and light at the end of the tunnel.
Illegitmus non tatem caborlundum.
Obviously I cannot say, because I am not on such a scheme (yet...) But the bottom line is - it offers hope and light at the end of the tunnel.
Illegitmus non tatem caborlundum.
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The highlands scheme does sound like an excellent way to minimise risk and build hours.
I have been viewing the forum regularly for a while now and it is alarming the number people with frozen ATPL's that are out of work.
With regards to current airline schemes, could anyone tell me if they have heard of pilots that have successfully completed a "sponsored scheme" and the airline has failed to provide a position at the end.
I would appreciate any success stories also!
I am in a dilemma on how long to hold out for a Thomsonfly scheme before decided to go self sponsored.
I have been viewing the forum regularly for a while now and it is alarming the number people with frozen ATPL's that are out of work.
With regards to current airline schemes, could anyone tell me if they have heard of pilots that have successfully completed a "sponsored scheme" and the airline has failed to provide a position at the end.
I would appreciate any success stories also!
I am in a dilemma on how long to hold out for a Thomsonfly scheme before decided to go self sponsored.
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From my experience, and it's not the end all, people over here in Canada work up to the big shiny jets. No such thing as a direct entry out of school but perhaps that's just the way the market is over here. Myself, I worked several years in the dispatch office flight planning and flight watching, learning about the company while flying on my summers off for an aerial photo outfit. Now I fly for the company on a TP, it's great and will only lead up to a bigger job, hopefully, from here. Are there people over in the UK that do this sort of thing? I don't know, I moved over here years ago but I'm just wondering if anyone has done this sort of thing and been successful at it?
I know if I were to do over again I'd do it the same way: Get a job with a good company while training, get some initial time and then bang on the chief's door for a job. That's my advise to newbies thinking of a way to start, dunno if it's worth anything.
I know if I were to do over again I'd do it the same way: Get a job with a good company while training, get some initial time and then bang on the chief's door for a job. That's my advise to newbies thinking of a way to start, dunno if it's worth anything.
