BA Direct Entry
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BA Direct Entry
I note with interest that BA are now looking for Direct Entry service pilots.(ex RAF)........is this the next step down from not being able to attract enough (any) type rated crews for short-haul. Or mayby its just they are changing tack.
Cheers H
Cheers H
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Makes sense really. Military guys have all the required skills for civil aviation:
-Enjoy being away from home lots.
-Used to doing what they are told, no matter how much it screws up their life.
-Used to working in an organisation with ever shrinking resources and ever increasing demands.
-Enjoy being away from home lots.
-Used to doing what they are told, no matter how much it screws up their life.
-Used to working in an organisation with ever shrinking resources and ever increasing demands.
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I was under the impression the airlines only employed military trained pilots, and when the 'Proper' pilots ran out only then would they lower intake standards to take on the civilian trained.
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Lucky Pierre,
You forgot,
When the RAF jock run out there are those very capable army helicopter bods with 150hrs fixed wing, you know, the ones that dont know what the world looks like on anything other than a sunny day and get a nose bleed if they go over 500' agl.
You forgot,
When the RAF jock run out there are those very capable army helicopter bods with 150hrs fixed wing, you know, the ones that dont know what the world looks like on anything other than a sunny day and get a nose bleed if they go over 500' agl.
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Rumour is they need pilots but management just don't want to hire any. There's a couple of Airbus courses coming up, and there was even an ad in the internal paper seeking prospective pilots from amongst the general employee population (min requirement was frozen ATPL from integrated course).
Stress that I work for BA but the first two rumours were simply what I'd overheard from current flightcrew...don't take it as gospel.
Stress that I work for BA but the first two rumours were simply what I'd overheard from current flightcrew...don't take it as gospel.
If I was a BA employee who had a frozen ATPL gained via MODULAR training then I would mount a legal challenge to their eligibility requirements.
They couldn't possible make them stand up in an employment tribunal. In fact it would never get there as their Brief would tell them to capitulate and avoid a fine.
In which case if they had automatically rejected you from applying for pilot training they would have to reverse that and allow you to go at least a fair stretch down the selection route.
Imagine an internal job advertisment that stated a Finance Degree qualification was required but that a distance learning or Open University gained degree was not acceptable... Or that applicants had to be MicroSoft Certified Engineers - but must have attended a full time course rather than evening classes....
For BA to use a defence along the lines of 'Integrated graduates offer less training risk' they would HAVE to have the data to back that up. Which they don't as they have never taken any JAA Modular graduates through pilot training out onto the line.
They'd have to back down sharpish and you might even get some compensation from them for rejecting you in the first place on an unfair clause. Indeed if you were say a female with children you might well be able to argue that your family commitments precluded you from full time study on the Integrated route. Thereby showing that BA's policy was indirectly discriminatory. Under the current legal regime this might well be arguable for Men with parenting commitments.
Its a can of HR worms and the sooner someone spanks the airlines backside in a tribunal the better. Only then will they stop trying to discriminate between equally qualified identically trained applicants.
Cheers
WWW
They couldn't possible make them stand up in an employment tribunal. In fact it would never get there as their Brief would tell them to capitulate and avoid a fine.
In which case if they had automatically rejected you from applying for pilot training they would have to reverse that and allow you to go at least a fair stretch down the selection route.
Imagine an internal job advertisment that stated a Finance Degree qualification was required but that a distance learning or Open University gained degree was not acceptable... Or that applicants had to be MicroSoft Certified Engineers - but must have attended a full time course rather than evening classes....
For BA to use a defence along the lines of 'Integrated graduates offer less training risk' they would HAVE to have the data to back that up. Which they don't as they have never taken any JAA Modular graduates through pilot training out onto the line.
They'd have to back down sharpish and you might even get some compensation from them for rejecting you in the first place on an unfair clause. Indeed if you were say a female with children you might well be able to argue that your family commitments precluded you from full time study on the Integrated route. Thereby showing that BA's policy was indirectly discriminatory. Under the current legal regime this might well be arguable for Men with parenting commitments.
Its a can of HR worms and the sooner someone spanks the airlines backside in a tribunal the better. Only then will they stop trying to discriminate between equally qualified identically trained applicants.
Cheers
WWW
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Lawsuit City
Nice idea WWW, but I seriously doubt you would find anyone willing to risk all they have worked for to sue a company like BA for a job. Seems a bit like shooting yourself in the foot. There is no way that BA would want to take you after you having put them through all that. No law can force someone to hire you as they will just find another reason to get rid of you. I doubt anyone will also risk being put onto a blacklist of people not to be hired in the industry.
And if BA HR created a 'blacklist' they would be leaving themselves open to a multitude of legal attacks costing millions.
If you work for BA already and are refused an internal application because you trained under the modular route you have nothing to fear by taking the firm to tribunal. Hundreds of BA staff are at tribunal with the company every year.
In fact I just read in the Telegraph of a 26yr old female FO with 4 years service who is taking BA to tribunal over their refusal to offer her a 50% roster.
Cheers
WWW
ps There is no industry blacklist or secret society of Chief Pilots. Its all a myth put about to scare young pilots to bed.
If you work for BA already and are refused an internal application because you trained under the modular route you have nothing to fear by taking the firm to tribunal. Hundreds of BA staff are at tribunal with the company every year.
In fact I just read in the Telegraph of a 26yr old female FO with 4 years service who is taking BA to tribunal over their refusal to offer her a 50% roster.
Cheers
WWW
ps There is no industry blacklist or secret society of Chief Pilots. Its all a myth put about to scare young pilots to bed.
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So BA looked for people in the following order;
1) 777/747/Airbus Type Rated
Second Round
2) 737/757 Type Rated....
(most of easyjet, baby and ryanair interviewed!)
3) Onto the turboprop people, They trawled through the Flybe people etc
4) Still having found not the right sort, they go to Oxford and Jerez. Still Vacant positions....
5) Finally onto the mil boys.
It seems like BA's DEP has been a total cockup, wasting a lot of peoples time and efforts.
It begs the question...what do BA want!!!!
1) 777/747/Airbus Type Rated
Second Round
2) 737/757 Type Rated....
(most of easyjet, baby and ryanair interviewed!)
3) Onto the turboprop people, They trawled through the Flybe people etc
4) Still having found not the right sort, they go to Oxford and Jerez. Still Vacant positions....
5) Finally onto the mil boys.
It seems like BA's DEP has been a total cockup, wasting a lot of peoples time and efforts.
It begs the question...what do BA want!!!!
I may be wrong but do military pilots, including transport pilots (C130, Tristar etc), not have to aquire the civilian licenses first including ATPL ground exams?
They can't just go from the LHS of a C130 straight on to a type rating course for the 777 can they?
They can't just go from the LHS of a C130 straight on to a type rating course for the 777 can they?
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RAF Transport pilots qualify for exemptions to ATPL exams if they have the requisite experience and command hours.
Military Exemptions Section 1-G2
This reflects the quality of training they have received throughout a long service career.
These pilots will also be ZFT rated, so quite attractive for employment. I know of at least 5 who have recently been offered 777 courses to start very soon.
The BA website ad for DEP Service pilots with less than 2 years left to serve would suggest this recruitment stream will be continuing for a while BA Military recruitment
I hate to be the bearer of bad news to SSP's, but there are rumours of other companies following suit to recruit ex-mil in advance of them leaving (and there will be a lot leaving in the next 3 years - many with 3000+ heavy multi hrs).
P.S I'm not quite sure the above order is accurate with regard to the BA trawl.
Military Exemptions Section 1-G2
This reflects the quality of training they have received throughout a long service career.
These pilots will also be ZFT rated, so quite attractive for employment. I know of at least 5 who have recently been offered 777 courses to start very soon.
The BA website ad for DEP Service pilots with less than 2 years left to serve would suggest this recruitment stream will be continuing for a while BA Military recruitment
I hate to be the bearer of bad news to SSP's, but there are rumours of other companies following suit to recruit ex-mil in advance of them leaving (and there will be a lot leaving in the next 3 years - many with 3000+ heavy multi hrs).
P.S I'm not quite sure the above order is accurate with regard to the BA trawl.
Last edited by P-T-Gamekeeper; 10th Jan 2005 at 18:19.
