Global Aviation assessment Day ?
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CH4
One of the less painful lessons that we here will all have learned is to NOT VOLUNTEER UNLES WE KNOW JOLLY WELL WHAT WE ARE LETTING OURSELVES IN FOR.
Honestly, sending an application and THEN finding out what we've applied for.... Just Brilliant. And certainly the way to get the very best up-and-coming pilots coming out of training.
So, would any previous applicants like to offer any info? Or are you bound to secrecy by the selection process?
And, CH4, is your name related to a Wokka or perhaps the Queen of the Skies? If so, then I really would expect you to know much better.
Cheerio!
CC
One of the less painful lessons that we here will all have learned is to NOT VOLUNTEER UNLES WE KNOW JOLLY WELL WHAT WE ARE LETTING OURSELVES IN FOR.
Honestly, sending an application and THEN finding out what we've applied for.... Just Brilliant. And certainly the way to get the very best up-and-coming pilots coming out of training.
So, would any previous applicants like to offer any info? Or are you bound to secrecy by the selection process?
And, CH4, is your name related to a Wokka or perhaps the Queen of the Skies? If so, then I really would expect you to know much better.
Cheerio!
CC
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CH4
Calm down. I still think £850 is a lot of dough, and am struggling to see why it should be so expensive.
However, as you are "in control" of the books, it is your decision not mine.
And I am not sure if I can pee higher up a wall than PP....he seems to be an ace at a lot of things
.
I would be delighted to find out more about the scheme. In fact I am sure I will on here when people pass/fail the selection.....and of course when they are placed with airlines too.
Calm down. I still think £850 is a lot of dough, and am struggling to see why it should be so expensive.
However, as you are "in control" of the books, it is your decision not mine.
And I am not sure if I can pee higher up a wall than PP....he seems to be an ace at a lot of things
.I would be delighted to find out more about the scheme. In fact I am sure I will on here when people pass/fail the selection.....and of course when they are placed with airlines too.
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Thanks Tailscrape; a very reasoned reply. I will certainly encourage those that have succesfully passed the assessment and have undergone our training and when they have subsequentlly been placed in gainful employment to post a testimony here on PPRuNE to that effect.
The only reason I entered this debate is that various individuals started to denounce the Global training scheme as a 'Scam'. It is not a scam and I can assure you of that. Storm Aviation has placed many hundreds of pilots in many different airlines over the last 5 years and I have no reason to believe that we will not continue to do so.
Ask many of the GO-Fly pilots, that we assessed. We didn't have ONE failure, due to training, yet we assessed all of their pilots for the long duration of the contract. For a considerable period, we also assessed many of those pilots that applied to join easyJet.
Can I guarantee a pilot a job, once he has been successful in the Assessment? No, I cannot. What I can tell him is that, once he has passed our assessment, then has the ability, given our training, to reach the required standards expected by our airline customers. Most of our customers do not put our pilots through a further assessment before offering them employment. Why? The reason is our reputation! That is why we demand such a high standard in the first place. Just because a pilot has the money to buy a type rating will not guarantee him a place on our scheme; far from it. He has to 'earn' it. That is very necessary to protect our reputation and ensure that this scheme works. If we don't place pilots, then it will not work.
Chuffer, in case my post wasn't entirely clear, sending in a completed application commits you to nothing at all; it merely allows us to determine that you do qualify. I believe that the example of Juez demonstrates the importance of that! If you meet the criteria, you will be invited to attend an assessment, then you will be given all of the information you require. To submit an application costs you nothing and commits you to nothing either! To qualify what I mean here, when we put an advert in Flight for 'EU citizens' to apply for a job in the EU, we will receive maybe 300 applications from people who do not have the rights to work in the EU! We cannot be expected to reply to all of these people that clearly do NOT qualify. Come and spend a day in my office and you will understand what I mean.
My failure to answer all questions on PPRuNE must be obvious to many here. A great place, but one where many individuals will 'put mouth into gear before brain' and hide behind anonymity to the extreme.
CH4
P.S. As to my 'handle'; think back to your Chemistry lessons at school. There's a big clue!
The only reason I entered this debate is that various individuals started to denounce the Global training scheme as a 'Scam'. It is not a scam and I can assure you of that. Storm Aviation has placed many hundreds of pilots in many different airlines over the last 5 years and I have no reason to believe that we will not continue to do so.
Ask many of the GO-Fly pilots, that we assessed. We didn't have ONE failure, due to training, yet we assessed all of their pilots for the long duration of the contract. For a considerable period, we also assessed many of those pilots that applied to join easyJet.
Can I guarantee a pilot a job, once he has been successful in the Assessment? No, I cannot. What I can tell him is that, once he has passed our assessment, then has the ability, given our training, to reach the required standards expected by our airline customers. Most of our customers do not put our pilots through a further assessment before offering them employment. Why? The reason is our reputation! That is why we demand such a high standard in the first place. Just because a pilot has the money to buy a type rating will not guarantee him a place on our scheme; far from it. He has to 'earn' it. That is very necessary to protect our reputation and ensure that this scheme works. If we don't place pilots, then it will not work.
Chuffer, in case my post wasn't entirely clear, sending in a completed application commits you to nothing at all; it merely allows us to determine that you do qualify. I believe that the example of Juez demonstrates the importance of that! If you meet the criteria, you will be invited to attend an assessment, then you will be given all of the information you require. To submit an application costs you nothing and commits you to nothing either! To qualify what I mean here, when we put an advert in Flight for 'EU citizens' to apply for a job in the EU, we will receive maybe 300 applications from people who do not have the rights to work in the EU! We cannot be expected to reply to all of these people that clearly do NOT qualify. Come and spend a day in my office and you will understand what I mean.
My failure to answer all questions on PPRuNE must be obvious to many here. A great place, but one where many individuals will 'put mouth into gear before brain' and hide behind anonymity to the extreme.
CH4
P.S. As to my 'handle'; think back to your Chemistry lessons at school. There's a big clue!
Last edited by CH4; 27th Oct 2003 at 13:54.
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CH4. I recently received a reply to my application and I am considering attending the assessment day. But I think you are quite unfair to some of the guys on this forum when you defend your view on this matter. It is undiscussable that it costs a lot of money. I estimate that it will cost me at least £1600, including some preparation in a sim+air fare+hotel. And that is not it. If one passes this day, I would say it is a rather expensive training you provide. This made me get over the first yippikayeyy. I have also read, on some other forums, about people who have gone through the training, who advices others not to...due to a rather poor follow-up from you at Storm. But hey, who am I to say, all I want is a job...and maybe you are for real...
There are obviously to views on this Storm deal...that one cannot neglect.
There are obviously to views on this Storm deal...that one cannot neglect.
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Come on, CH4!
You could quite easily put this whole issue to bed by coming squaky clean with the costs of your course, who you are (potentially?) providing aircrew to, and how many. There need to be numbers, mind, not just vague references to 'Value training' or 'Good prospects' that might be tempting.....
Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on!
CC
You could quite easily put this whole issue to bed by coming squaky clean with the costs of your course, who you are (potentially?) providing aircrew to, and how many. There need to be numbers, mind, not just vague references to 'Value training' or 'Good prospects' that might be tempting.....
Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on!
CC
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Fully agree with you Chuffer Chadley!
CH4:
What do people actually get after having spent £850,- on a selection which appears to be only valid for some line intro? (the priviledge for which the´trainee,´ has to pay £100,- per sector!)
In all fairness, don´t you agree that if there really is such a demand for type rated people out there, you should be able to have a real job line up before you charge people £850,- for a selection and £18150,- for a type, and £100,- per sector line intro?
The website is full of vague promises, but IMHO after an £850,- selection, Global should be able to deliver something better than: "The very real prospect of either a fixed term contract or a permanent position with one of our airline customers."
CH4:
What do people actually get after having spent £850,- on a selection which appears to be only valid for some line intro? (the priviledge for which the´trainee,´ has to pay £100,- per sector!)
In all fairness, don´t you agree that if there really is such a demand for type rated people out there, you should be able to have a real job line up before you charge people £850,- for a selection and £18150,- for a type, and £100,- per sector line intro?
The website is full of vague promises, but IMHO after an £850,- selection, Global should be able to deliver something better than: "The very real prospect of either a fixed term contract or a permanent position with one of our airline customers."
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lot of noise but....
Ok people.... but so far we still didn't find out any info about those psychometrical tests of the assessment day or what are they going to ask in the simulator check....
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One imagines that the £850 helps to pay for the advertising, the administration, the psychometric tests, the time in a simulator, the involvement of an airline TRE pilots ( read, 'seriously qualified airline pilots' ), the feedback, etc.
Imho all potential airline pilot wannabes should be forced to undertake such an assessment, in advance of them 'independently' commencing with flying training - as it'd ultimately save a lot of people from terrrific heartache and expense.
Indeed what I do fail to understand is why wannabes seem quite so prepared to layout tens of thousands of £'s on some vague self-promoted idea that they will indeed ultimately make it as an airline pilot – regardless of the fact that they're actually complete wnkers ( as in, "What, spend 14 hours in the cockpit with that pillock ? I should coco !" ), to say nothing that most Flight Training Organisations are more than willing to part them from their money ( nice, huh ?! ).
Also please believe me when I say that it comes as quite a shock to some people when, having achieved the CPL / fATPL ( no mean achievemtn in itself - but only the basic criteria to allow one to apply to an airline ), they then find out that they are not the kind of people whom airlines would prefer to employ.
So, what I see such a £850 assessment providing is the opportunity to put oneself through an independent airline assessment procedure – but wherein it’s actually conducted by highly trained, qualified, and senior current airline personnel / pilots - and then be provided with honest feedback as to ones abilities ( or not ), conducted in the exact same light as would be perceived by a potential airline employer, following which the candidates are then able to decide their own best course of action; remembering that one can actually ‘fail’ to achieve the standard required to move on the type-rating course, but remembering that the feedback provided will explain why this happened as well what the candidate should do to address any shortfalls in their performance.
Of course for those who actually ‘pass’ the assessment ( bearing in mind that they’ve just passed what is, in effect, a full airline interview process ) they then have the choice to buy in to a type-rating, one that is suggested as having a fairly strong likelihood of an airline pilots job at the end of it – albeit not guaranteed ( but then nothing in life ever is ) – though, given the track record of the company offering the scheme, one imagines that they have several airline partners waiting the wings to snap-up the people who have completed the type-rating / line-training course.
Imho all potential airline pilot wannabes should be forced to undertake such an assessment, in advance of them 'independently' commencing with flying training - as it'd ultimately save a lot of people from terrrific heartache and expense.
Indeed what I do fail to understand is why wannabes seem quite so prepared to layout tens of thousands of £'s on some vague self-promoted idea that they will indeed ultimately make it as an airline pilot – regardless of the fact that they're actually complete wnkers ( as in, "What, spend 14 hours in the cockpit with that pillock ? I should coco !" ), to say nothing that most Flight Training Organisations are more than willing to part them from their money ( nice, huh ?! ).
Also please believe me when I say that it comes as quite a shock to some people when, having achieved the CPL / fATPL ( no mean achievemtn in itself - but only the basic criteria to allow one to apply to an airline ), they then find out that they are not the kind of people whom airlines would prefer to employ.
So, what I see such a £850 assessment providing is the opportunity to put oneself through an independent airline assessment procedure – but wherein it’s actually conducted by highly trained, qualified, and senior current airline personnel / pilots - and then be provided with honest feedback as to ones abilities ( or not ), conducted in the exact same light as would be perceived by a potential airline employer, following which the candidates are then able to decide their own best course of action; remembering that one can actually ‘fail’ to achieve the standard required to move on the type-rating course, but remembering that the feedback provided will explain why this happened as well what the candidate should do to address any shortfalls in their performance.
Of course for those who actually ‘pass’ the assessment ( bearing in mind that they’ve just passed what is, in effect, a full airline interview process ) they then have the choice to buy in to a type-rating, one that is suggested as having a fairly strong likelihood of an airline pilots job at the end of it – albeit not guaranteed ( but then nothing in life ever is ) – though, given the track record of the company offering the scheme, one imagines that they have several airline partners waiting the wings to snap-up the people who have completed the type-rating / line-training course.
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I am going to make one more post here on the topics raised and then that is it. The reason being is that, as already stated, we are too busy processing applications from genuine people who do not fall into the category of most vocal detractors that speak loudest here on PPRuNE and other websites.
I have stated what information we are prepared to disclose on an open forum and that which we are not. I do not propose to repeat myself again.
Everyone is free to decide if they wish to participate or not; we are not pushing anyone. If you don’t want what we are offering, don’t take it, I really don’t care. No-one is forcing anyone here. Those that want to progress will make their own decisions, those that don’t will not. Why is it necessary for those not wishing to do so, to go to extreme lengths to dissuade others, based on false information?
An example or two;
DJ.Mixmaster states that we provide ‘rather expensive training’! Do we really? I suggest that anyone goes and checks the price of a basic JAR B737 type rating course. Ours is £12,500. Go compare. Then, you have to add the cost of an NG differences course; ours is £1,500, which is very cheap. Then go add the cost of an extra 20 hours simulator instruction that we maintain is required to reach the necessary standard, if you are a wanabee (250 – 700 hours experience). Then add the cost of the base training; we charge £3,500, which is cheap; go ask GECAT or others how much that will cost you! Then come back and tell me we are expensive! As usual, you guys engage mouth before brain!
Number. Why should we explain anything in advance about the psychometric tests and any questions you will be asked about in advance of the simulator? The whole point is that you will be asked to do them with the appropriate briefing beforehand.
DJ Mixmaster …(Again) … he manages to turn the £850 fee into £1600! He adds sim preparation in his calculation???? That’s his choice, but not required by us, and I would definitely advise against that as a general rule. Also if he has to commute to attend, that’s his problem, but to suggest we are charging for any extras is also misleading!
DJ.M. Personally, I would prefer you did not attend an assessment, because from evidence to date you probably will not qualify from a CRM point of view. I do not want you to waste your money. If you demonstrate the same attributes in the sim that you have here, then my guess is you will be unsuccessful. I don’t want or need your £850, and would rather reserve your assessment slot for someone that meets the standards.
Line Training – Why do we charge? Again, you detractors really don’t have a grip here. In order to line train you, first of all we have to train you in all of the ground subjects, such as CRM, wet drills, Aviation medicine, doors operation, slides etc. A week’s ground school. Then we have to obtain an ID pass. For those of you who do not know better we have to produce 5 years employment records/history, evidence of gaps in employment, criminal records etc. You have no idea of the headache this causes and the human resources required!
Next, having done all of the above, we have to provide you with a uniform, so that you can go and fly!
When you fly, on line training, we also have to provide a safety pilot, so we are not getting a ‘free crew member’ as you may think.
Hopefully, you detractors will go away and digest the commercial realities of what we are doing? I hope so, but doubt it, given the evidence I have seen to date!
I have also done some background checks on some of the very vocal individuals here. What do I find? The most vociferous is a very recently qualified CTC cadet that hasn’t even settled into his 3rd stripe, let alone earned that 4th stripe, yet you would believe that he is an experienced TRE with a major airline. The other, I accept, I confused with someone else and there again find he’s a 3 striper, also with a vested business interest!
So, to those that persist in rubbishing an open and commercially viable opportunity; do so at your own peril. You will surely get found out at assessment level by people that have been in this industry for a considerable number of years!
That is my final post on the subject, so Chuffer, any amount of goading will not produce any more information here!
I have stated what information we are prepared to disclose on an open forum and that which we are not. I do not propose to repeat myself again.
Everyone is free to decide if they wish to participate or not; we are not pushing anyone. If you don’t want what we are offering, don’t take it, I really don’t care. No-one is forcing anyone here. Those that want to progress will make their own decisions, those that don’t will not. Why is it necessary for those not wishing to do so, to go to extreme lengths to dissuade others, based on false information?
An example or two;
DJ.Mixmaster states that we provide ‘rather expensive training’! Do we really? I suggest that anyone goes and checks the price of a basic JAR B737 type rating course. Ours is £12,500. Go compare. Then, you have to add the cost of an NG differences course; ours is £1,500, which is very cheap. Then go add the cost of an extra 20 hours simulator instruction that we maintain is required to reach the necessary standard, if you are a wanabee (250 – 700 hours experience). Then add the cost of the base training; we charge £3,500, which is cheap; go ask GECAT or others how much that will cost you! Then come back and tell me we are expensive! As usual, you guys engage mouth before brain!
Number. Why should we explain anything in advance about the psychometric tests and any questions you will be asked about in advance of the simulator? The whole point is that you will be asked to do them with the appropriate briefing beforehand.
DJ Mixmaster …(Again) … he manages to turn the £850 fee into £1600! He adds sim preparation in his calculation???? That’s his choice, but not required by us, and I would definitely advise against that as a general rule. Also if he has to commute to attend, that’s his problem, but to suggest we are charging for any extras is also misleading!
DJ.M. Personally, I would prefer you did not attend an assessment, because from evidence to date you probably will not qualify from a CRM point of view. I do not want you to waste your money. If you demonstrate the same attributes in the sim that you have here, then my guess is you will be unsuccessful. I don’t want or need your £850, and would rather reserve your assessment slot for someone that meets the standards.
Line Training – Why do we charge? Again, you detractors really don’t have a grip here. In order to line train you, first of all we have to train you in all of the ground subjects, such as CRM, wet drills, Aviation medicine, doors operation, slides etc. A week’s ground school. Then we have to obtain an ID pass. For those of you who do not know better we have to produce 5 years employment records/history, evidence of gaps in employment, criminal records etc. You have no idea of the headache this causes and the human resources required!
Next, having done all of the above, we have to provide you with a uniform, so that you can go and fly!
When you fly, on line training, we also have to provide a safety pilot, so we are not getting a ‘free crew member’ as you may think.
Hopefully, you detractors will go away and digest the commercial realities of what we are doing? I hope so, but doubt it, given the evidence I have seen to date!
I have also done some background checks on some of the very vocal individuals here. What do I find? The most vociferous is a very recently qualified CTC cadet that hasn’t even settled into his 3rd stripe, let alone earned that 4th stripe, yet you would believe that he is an experienced TRE with a major airline. The other, I accept, I confused with someone else and there again find he’s a 3 striper, also with a vested business interest!
So, to those that persist in rubbishing an open and commercially viable opportunity; do so at your own peril. You will surely get found out at assessment level by people that have been in this industry for a considerable number of years!
That is my final post on the subject, so Chuffer, any amount of goading will not produce any more information here!
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Well since I was the one to begin this debate it only feels just that I should once again add my pennies worth.
I recently attended the selection day and would recommend it to anyone. I have not yet received my results but would be very surprised if I am excepted.... my sym did not go to well.
I really enjoyed the day and walked away with a wealth of usfull information. The staff were fantastic, very helpfull and more than willing to offer advise on all subjects.
I cant stress how much I learnt, especially in the sym. It was a real insight into airline selections and what they are looking for. If I don't make it this time I would seriosly consider saving up the money again an having another go at the selection.
I recently attended the selection day and would recommend it to anyone. I have not yet received my results but would be very surprised if I am excepted.... my sym did not go to well.
I really enjoyed the day and walked away with a wealth of usfull information. The staff were fantastic, very helpfull and more than willing to offer advise on all subjects.
I cant stress how much I learnt, especially in the sym. It was a real insight into airline selections and what they are looking for. If I don't make it this time I would seriosly consider saving up the money again an having another go at the selection.
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Little Bo
Thank you for your testimony. I do not know who you are, although you did meet me on the day and therefore know who I am! I honestly do not know the full results yet myself as to who succeeded and who did not. All I know at this stage is that some were successful and some, sadly, were not. I will know for sure by tomorrow, which individuals fell into which category and as promised, will have the assessment reports out to all tomorrow.
I hope you have been successful, but if not, please remember my words on the day; If you are not successful today, this is NOT telling you that you will not achieve a successful carreer in aviation; far from it. What we are saying is that, in our opinion, at this stage of your development and experience, you are not yet ready to make that 'big leap' straight into the right hand seat of a fast, modern jet. I will probably get 'flamed' for that remark, but it is genuinely given to all that have not been successful on the first attempt. Hopefully, the feedback that everyone will receive will help them to plan the best way forward to achieve their ambitions. I have no doubt whatsoever that ALL that attended on Monday WILL ultimately achieve their ambition; some need to consider a slightly delayed route. You were all young guys and gals and that might appear to be a big set back at this moment, but believe me it is not. For the span of your respective careers, a delay of 12 or 24 months is less significant in the overall 'big picture' than the date that you first get to fly a jet!
I myself am a living testiomy of that fact. I know that I could not have made the grade and passed the assessment at the level of experience that I had when I gained my commercial licence. I had to sit on a turbo prop for nearly 12 months before I got my break, but enjoyed every minute of it. Many of those that 'fast tracked' me straight on to a jet, were better able and passed the sim assessment that I did not, and joined airlines that subsequently went out of business. Air Europe was the classic example of this. Some years later I met again with these same folk and the irony was that I was their Captain and they were junior F/O's , whereas I had been their humble FO in a previous life! No truer saying in aviation than 'who you meet on your way up, will probably be the same you meet on your way down again'
Moral of this story is obvious. A delay of 12 months before you might make the grade is no big deal and in the overall big picture of your future career probably won't make a damn difference. What will make more of a difference is your choice of who you ultimately decide to work for and whether they stay in business. This business is very akin to 'Snakes and Ladders!'
All I can tell you at this stage is that the TRE's present on the day were 'very impressed with each and every one of you'. That was feedback they gave me following your briefing, before you went into the sim! 'Very bright, asking all of the right and very intelligent questions' were some of the words used. If you were not successful, take heart in the feedback and don't loose hope.
Those of you that were there know the identity and the pedigree of the senior TRE present and you know that he is a most renowned and respected individual of considerable reputation and experience in this industry. Please do not divulge his identity in this forum, in fairness to him, as he is a very honourable gentleman, but instead understand and appreciate the genuine commendation given and respect the advice offered!
CH4
Thank you for your testimony. I do not know who you are, although you did meet me on the day and therefore know who I am! I honestly do not know the full results yet myself as to who succeeded and who did not. All I know at this stage is that some were successful and some, sadly, were not. I will know for sure by tomorrow, which individuals fell into which category and as promised, will have the assessment reports out to all tomorrow.
I hope you have been successful, but if not, please remember my words on the day; If you are not successful today, this is NOT telling you that you will not achieve a successful carreer in aviation; far from it. What we are saying is that, in our opinion, at this stage of your development and experience, you are not yet ready to make that 'big leap' straight into the right hand seat of a fast, modern jet. I will probably get 'flamed' for that remark, but it is genuinely given to all that have not been successful on the first attempt. Hopefully, the feedback that everyone will receive will help them to plan the best way forward to achieve their ambitions. I have no doubt whatsoever that ALL that attended on Monday WILL ultimately achieve their ambition; some need to consider a slightly delayed route. You were all young guys and gals and that might appear to be a big set back at this moment, but believe me it is not. For the span of your respective careers, a delay of 12 or 24 months is less significant in the overall 'big picture' than the date that you first get to fly a jet!
I myself am a living testiomy of that fact. I know that I could not have made the grade and passed the assessment at the level of experience that I had when I gained my commercial licence. I had to sit on a turbo prop for nearly 12 months before I got my break, but enjoyed every minute of it. Many of those that 'fast tracked' me straight on to a jet, were better able and passed the sim assessment that I did not, and joined airlines that subsequently went out of business. Air Europe was the classic example of this. Some years later I met again with these same folk and the irony was that I was their Captain and they were junior F/O's , whereas I had been their humble FO in a previous life! No truer saying in aviation than 'who you meet on your way up, will probably be the same you meet on your way down again'
Moral of this story is obvious. A delay of 12 months before you might make the grade is no big deal and in the overall big picture of your future career probably won't make a damn difference. What will make more of a difference is your choice of who you ultimately decide to work for and whether they stay in business. This business is very akin to 'Snakes and Ladders!'
All I can tell you at this stage is that the TRE's present on the day were 'very impressed with each and every one of you'. That was feedback they gave me following your briefing, before you went into the sim! 'Very bright, asking all of the right and very intelligent questions' were some of the words used. If you were not successful, take heart in the feedback and don't loose hope.
Those of you that were there know the identity and the pedigree of the senior TRE present and you know that he is a most renowned and respected individual of considerable reputation and experience in this industry. Please do not divulge his identity in this forum, in fairness to him, as he is a very honourable gentleman, but instead understand and appreciate the genuine commendation given and respect the advice offered!
CH4
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Well... It's been an entertaining thread chaps..... all I've read from CH$ ( Dollar sign is on the same key as 4 if anyone has noticed) is perfectly valid, sorry PP
Now, where do we stand ? in an open market right ? A very basic rule is offer and demand. Nobody will argue that demand is MUCH higher than offer. I'm quite bemused by the naive approach of certain people who seem outraged by the practices of companies like Global Aviation. Keeping in mind the basic rule there is A SHED LOAD of un-employable people (like me 
) who are not going to impress anyone with a CPL/IR/multi and 250 hours ! So, Joe Bloggs wanabe pilot, what are you going to do? NOW, to improve your chances of finding a job and get ahead of your competitors (life is tough huh!) wouldn't you consider that a Type rating is appropriate ? I thought about it (not for long) and came to the conclusion that I'll need to fork out another 20 Grand or so. Ok, the situation will be different in 2 years and CH4 will then be probably offering a type rating to his client airlines without having to justify himself in front of poor wanabe pilots like us. Now your choice is to take the risk and put your own money on the table or wait 2 years ( hooo ... long wait 
) . CH4 , I will be applying very soon SF . John Major said once "it's time to put up or shut up" , you see boarding school education is useful even to us wanabee flying buses pilots.
SF
Now, where do we stand ? in an open market right ? A very basic rule is offer and demand. Nobody will argue that demand is MUCH higher than offer. I'm quite bemused by the naive approach of certain people who seem outraged by the practices of companies like Global Aviation. Keeping in mind the basic rule there is A SHED LOAD of un-employable people (like me ) who are not going to impress anyone with a CPL/IR/multi and 250 hours ! So, Joe Bloggs wanabe pilot, what are you going to do? NOW, to improve your chances of finding a job and get ahead of your competitors (life is tough huh!) wouldn't you consider that a Type rating is appropriate ? I thought about it (not for long) and came to the conclusion that I'll need to fork out another 20 Grand or so. Ok, the situation will be different in 2 years and CH4 will then be probably offering a type rating to his client airlines without having to justify himself in front of poor wanabe pilots like us. Now your choice is to take the risk and put your own money on the table or wait 2 years ( hooo ... long wait ) . CH4 , I will be applying very soon SF . John Major said once "it's time to put up or shut up" , you see boarding school education is useful even to us wanabee flying buses pilots. SF
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I sent an application about 3 weeks ago but I have not received a reply. As far as I know I meet the criteria, definately from eu, have nice shiny blue book with IR (passed first time). Is there a back log? Or is there other criteria?
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If you sent in an application form 3 weeks ago and you are convinced that you met the criteria, then you should most certainly have received a reply by now. As you can imagine we have received a great number of applications, however we have prioritised responding to those that did meet the criteria. There should not really have been more than a 2 - 3 day delay in receiving a reply at most. Whether your application got to us in the first place or has been unintentionally 'misfiled' is another matter. My suggestion is to send in another one. Sorry if we are to blame here.
We have not had time, and probably never will get the time, to respond to those that clearly do not meet the criteria (e.g. a South American with no rights to work in the EU and no relevant licence. Yes, we do get lots of applications like that, in spite of a clear statement of the criteria required!)
We have also received a great number of emails requesting additional information, but without attaching an application. The team do try where possible to answer some of these if there is a spare moment inbetween processing the applications received, but this is clearly likely to result in a considerable delay because they must prioritise in processing those with applications. Therefore my suggestion is to all concerned, send in an application form, allow us to determine that you meet the criteria and any questions that remain outstanding, following the information that we will then give you, can and will be answered. As I have said here before, sending in an application costs nothing and commits you to nothing, but it is the quickest way to get your questions answered.
Superfly; my sentiments exactly. We are in the business of training pilots and also placing them with airlines. We do not set the trends in the market, but merely react to market conditions. It's the airlines themselves that set the trends, whether we like or agree with those trends.
As a pilot, I can have a lot of sympathy with those that now find they have to consider funding their own type rating to give themselves a 'competitive edge'. Many will cry 'foul', but lets get a reality check here. It's a real and sometimes cruel world out there and every business in the world will try to create a competitive edge for themselves. It is absolutely natural and accepted practise.
Any individual that has made the decision to pursue a career in flying airplanes should quite rightly consider the project as a business. It is a business, even if there may be a lot of passion involved, and one where the individual has already made the decision to invest a considerable sum of money to obtain a commercial licence in the first instance. It's a bit like capital injected on the balance sheet of any business; necessary in order to generate business opportunities and ultimately revenue. Every business has to react and, if necessary, change their business model to remain competitive and again no difference in the 'flying airplanes' business. Failure to react or change very often does result in failure.
I know lots won't like my perception of the problem and won't agree. Fine, let's agree to disagree and each go on our respective paths. As always, time will tell whether the decisions we each make were the correct ones or not. Whatever your own opinion is, I think most would agree that it is a 'dog eat dog' world out there and this 'flying airplanes' business is indeed no exception.
CH4
Edited for spellos; not sure I got them all.
If you sent in an application form 3 weeks ago and you are convinced that you met the criteria, then you should most certainly have received a reply by now. As you can imagine we have received a great number of applications, however we have prioritised responding to those that did meet the criteria. There should not really have been more than a 2 - 3 day delay in receiving a reply at most. Whether your application got to us in the first place or has been unintentionally 'misfiled' is another matter. My suggestion is to send in another one. Sorry if we are to blame here.
We have not had time, and probably never will get the time, to respond to those that clearly do not meet the criteria (e.g. a South American with no rights to work in the EU and no relevant licence. Yes, we do get lots of applications like that, in spite of a clear statement of the criteria required!)
We have also received a great number of emails requesting additional information, but without attaching an application. The team do try where possible to answer some of these if there is a spare moment inbetween processing the applications received, but this is clearly likely to result in a considerable delay because they must prioritise in processing those with applications. Therefore my suggestion is to all concerned, send in an application form, allow us to determine that you meet the criteria and any questions that remain outstanding, following the information that we will then give you, can and will be answered. As I have said here before, sending in an application costs nothing and commits you to nothing, but it is the quickest way to get your questions answered.
Superfly; my sentiments exactly. We are in the business of training pilots and also placing them with airlines. We do not set the trends in the market, but merely react to market conditions. It's the airlines themselves that set the trends, whether we like or agree with those trends.
As a pilot, I can have a lot of sympathy with those that now find they have to consider funding their own type rating to give themselves a 'competitive edge'. Many will cry 'foul', but lets get a reality check here. It's a real and sometimes cruel world out there and every business in the world will try to create a competitive edge for themselves. It is absolutely natural and accepted practise.
Any individual that has made the decision to pursue a career in flying airplanes should quite rightly consider the project as a business. It is a business, even if there may be a lot of passion involved, and one where the individual has already made the decision to invest a considerable sum of money to obtain a commercial licence in the first instance. It's a bit like capital injected on the balance sheet of any business; necessary in order to generate business opportunities and ultimately revenue. Every business has to react and, if necessary, change their business model to remain competitive and again no difference in the 'flying airplanes' business. Failure to react or change very often does result in failure.
I know lots won't like my perception of the problem and won't agree. Fine, let's agree to disagree and each go on our respective paths. As always, time will tell whether the decisions we each make were the correct ones or not. Whatever your own opinion is, I think most would agree that it is a 'dog eat dog' world out there and this 'flying airplanes' business is indeed no exception.
CH4
Edited for spellos; not sure I got them all.
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Come on guys...
..."those days when airlines paid the type ratings are over" is true ONLY if pilots are willing to pay those ratings out of their own pocket.
You should realize that those "aptitude testing" blood suckers are just after your money. Sadly enough, there are allways some of these "rich daddy's kids" who are trying to buy their short cut into the cockpit like this...
Well, the good thing is that these fellows will end up spending plenty of it for all kind of "ass-essment days", "fairly priced type rating courses" etc... And then, after the training is over (and if they kissed the **s good enough) they might even be able to "work" for one of these airlines who seems to pop up & dissappear after every couple of years. All this happens, of course, only in case one manages to bring that £100,- per sector with him/her...
Good Lord, please, save my airline from "pilots" like that...
You should realize that those "aptitude testing" blood suckers are just after your money. Sadly enough, there are allways some of these "rich daddy's kids" who are trying to buy their short cut into the cockpit like this...
Well, the good thing is that these fellows will end up spending plenty of it for all kind of "ass-essment days", "fairly priced type rating courses" etc... And then, after the training is over (and if they kissed the **s good enough) they might even be able to "work" for one of these airlines who seems to pop up & dissappear after every couple of years. All this happens, of course, only in case one manages to bring that £100,- per sector with him/her...
Good Lord, please, save my airline from "pilots" like that...
Last edited by Aviate378; 3rd Nov 2003 at 02:47.