Failed airline selection?
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Failed airline selection?
We hear of plenty of people who have been successful in getting a job on these pages and also plenty of very generous guys who offer backslapping to others whilst admitting that they have been unsuccessful.
What I thought would be interesting would be to hear from all those who have failed having advanced beyond CV/ application form on a selection/ interview with a UK airline. I understand that some would be unwilling to broadcast this fact, but it is merely an excercise to find out where guys are going wrong.
So, why did you fail? Did the company offer any feedback? If not, what do you feel was the problem? Lack of preparation? Tough interview questions that you didn't expect? Rustiness of the scan come the sim assessment? Unfamiliarity with the handling characteristics of something bigger than a piston twin? Just didn't know what to expect with regard to the selection tests?
Come on guys, if you're brave enough to answer perhaps many Wannabes could learn from your bad experiences.
PP
What I thought would be interesting would be to hear from all those who have failed having advanced beyond CV/ application form on a selection/ interview with a UK airline. I understand that some would be unwilling to broadcast this fact, but it is merely an excercise to find out where guys are going wrong.
So, why did you fail? Did the company offer any feedback? If not, what do you feel was the problem? Lack of preparation? Tough interview questions that you didn't expect? Rustiness of the scan come the sim assessment? Unfamiliarity with the handling characteristics of something bigger than a piston twin? Just didn't know what to expect with regard to the selection tests?
Come on guys, if you're brave enough to answer perhaps many Wannabes could learn from your bad experiences.
PP
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Pilot Pete
I recently failed a selection procedure not once, but TWICE!
First time round:
Did well enough on the number crunching, games, general role playing stuff on day one to warrant an invite to day two.
Day two consisted of a sim check (on unfamiliar type), an interview with a psychologist and a management "key point" interview.
The sim went well. I was well prepared, and had done my homework. It showed.
The psychologist interview seemed o.k.
The management interview was a nightmare as I had not done my homework. I deserved to fail, and I did. So, no job with them, however I am lucky enough to fly the same type for another operator, so no loss really.
Then, my interest got the better of me, and I asked for another go next time round. The airline (knowing I was keen) gave me a second shot.
This is where it gets interesting!!
I was invited to be fast tracked to day two of the process, and given a date to show up. However, this was about 7 weeks away.
I had a rather painful operation in the meantime, and was off work (no flying at all) for six weeks.
I had really worked my balls off (with help from my good friend xxxxx xxxxx) on interview theory, as I felt this to be my weakness in the chain.
However, even though I had turned up after logging about 100 hours P1 time on Flight sim 2002 flying the profile over and again in the weeks off sick.............I managed to have a bad day in the sim!
So, I failed it........
Anyhow, the moral to this story is this:
Any number of factors can set you back on the day. Just try your best, be yourself and keep your fingers crossed!
The world is a funny place, and what will be will be. In the meantime, I have not taken a wannabees job!
Keep your chins up chaps, there are plenty of people like me to fail things to give you lot a chance!!!
I recently failed a selection procedure not once, but TWICE!
First time round:
Did well enough on the number crunching, games, general role playing stuff on day one to warrant an invite to day two.
Day two consisted of a sim check (on unfamiliar type), an interview with a psychologist and a management "key point" interview.
The sim went well. I was well prepared, and had done my homework. It showed.
The psychologist interview seemed o.k.
The management interview was a nightmare as I had not done my homework. I deserved to fail, and I did. So, no job with them, however I am lucky enough to fly the same type for another operator, so no loss really.
Then, my interest got the better of me, and I asked for another go next time round. The airline (knowing I was keen) gave me a second shot.
This is where it gets interesting!!
I was invited to be fast tracked to day two of the process, and given a date to show up. However, this was about 7 weeks away.
I had a rather painful operation in the meantime, and was off work (no flying at all) for six weeks.
I had really worked my balls off (with help from my good friend xxxxx xxxxx) on interview theory, as I felt this to be my weakness in the chain.
However, even though I had turned up after logging about 100 hours P1 time on Flight sim 2002 flying the profile over and again in the weeks off sick.............I managed to have a bad day in the sim!
So, I failed it........
Anyhow, the moral to this story is this:
Any number of factors can set you back on the day. Just try your best, be yourself and keep your fingers crossed!
The world is a funny place, and what will be will be. In the meantime, I have not taken a wannabees job!
Keep your chins up chaps, there are plenty of people like me to fail things to give you lot a chance!!!
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I fall in to the same boat as Tailscrape. As people already know I have recently been unable to get trough the second stage of the interview / sim this was my second time with the same company. I only found out recently that it was the sim that let me down. I was just unable to get the thing stable on the approach. I keeped it all in limits but... I am still trying to get feed back about the whole detail of the day but I'm sure that it came down to this last appr. If I had one more then I know I would have cracked it. oh well I have 2 years to refine my scan before I can re-apply
Never mind failing, how about passing!!
Whilst it is important to learn from our collective mistakes (or bad luck) should we not also include those who passed these selection procedures on the day?
Quite often on this forum people are successful and let us know, but never pass on what they did differently from everyone else. Or perhaps, like me, they just don't know!!
Quite often on this forum people are successful and let us know, but never pass on what they did differently from everyone else. Or perhaps, like me, they just don't know!!
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A month after my MCC I managed to fail the CTC selection process. I passed 1st stage (application form), having been invited to second stage selection I dug out all of my atpl books and bought an aptitude test book to scrub up on bits and pieces.
Feeling well prepared and fairly confident at this stage the day seemed to go very well. I felt I contributed fairly and gave many interesting views and relevant points in the group discussions.
The afternoon written tests I was very happy about, I felt that I was challenged but had risen to it as I did not feel that the written and maths tests were too difficult.
Got the 'sorry you're not in email' the next day! Shame I thought I did well, but they obviously want a certain type.... Who knows I didnt analyse it too much.
Two months later while at work my mobile rang, and it was to my surprise an airline on the end.
Two days later I was in a same type sim practising, and a day after that in airline interview coaching, a few days later I found myself doing my selection tests, and my first ever sim check! Must have learnt by my mistakes because they all agreed I'd done a good job for a low hr guy, and got offered a type rating.
I'd prepared even more this time by getting in the sim and taking expensive interview coaching. I learnt that the most important thing about a sim check is not how well your raw data hold turned out or how well your approaches were flown, it was; is this person a nice person? are they professional? Do they learn from their mistakes quickly? Have they put the effort in to prepare meticulously? Can we train them with minimal time and effort? And most importantly is their crm excellent?
MG.
Feeling well prepared and fairly confident at this stage the day seemed to go very well. I felt I contributed fairly and gave many interesting views and relevant points in the group discussions.
The afternoon written tests I was very happy about, I felt that I was challenged but had risen to it as I did not feel that the written and maths tests were too difficult.
Got the 'sorry you're not in email' the next day! Shame I thought I did well, but they obviously want a certain type.... Who knows I didnt analyse it too much.
Two months later while at work my mobile rang, and it was to my surprise an airline on the end.
Two days later I was in a same type sim practising, and a day after that in airline interview coaching, a few days later I found myself doing my selection tests, and my first ever sim check! Must have learnt by my mistakes because they all agreed I'd done a good job for a low hr guy, and got offered a type rating.
I'd prepared even more this time by getting in the sim and taking expensive interview coaching. I learnt that the most important thing about a sim check is not how well your raw data hold turned out or how well your approaches were flown, it was; is this person a nice person? are they professional? Do they learn from their mistakes quickly? Have they put the effort in to prepare meticulously? Can we train them with minimal time and effort? And most importantly is their crm excellent?
MG.
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Thanks for your replies so far guys, not really enough to start building a picture of what the most common failure areas appear to be, but the sim looks like no.1 at the moment.
Anyone else brave enough to share your weaknesses?
PP
Anyone else brave enough to share your weaknesses?
PP
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I followed PP advice and asked for feedback on my recent Brits selection day hash. I didn't meet the required standard in the Maths section. As a remedy I will be keeping 'current' on maths of that level rather than the simpler everyday maths we all encounter. (eg Fags+sandwiches+30 litres of unleaded @76.9p per litre how much change from £35?)
Lesson Learnt.
Lesson Learnt.
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Hi PP, Howzit ?
Well in my case I went for the BA Citiexpress about a year ago or so and passed the first stage which consisted in the usual first day assessement.
I was then invited for the second stage, a sim ride on a bac 1-11.
Used to Flight Directors I chose to fly the profile using it as it was allowed but when it came to it, I realised a little late how different this one was.
Indeed this sim was equipped with a very basic FD, requiring a lot more manual input than a standard "Follow Me".
Flew the profile within limit but very untidy and a bit behind so I wasn't surprised when I heard I had failed.
Now if I had been a little bit more committed to it, I would have hired a Trident sim (or similar) to give myself time to practice and perhaps I would have passed this one.
That s the difference between the selection I took for my present employer and BACitixpress.
For those of you wondering why I didn't try harder to pass BACX's ride, there are three reasons.
- I was broke
- Working for a small operator, taking a day off for a sim ride was possible but for another day or two to get practice time was impossible.
- The main one really, I had already been selected to work for a much bigger and in my view more prestigious outfit with long term career prospects (if that still exists). Only a matter of time before I was to be recalled but since I didn't know how long for, I went along with it just in case...
Well in my case I went for the BA Citiexpress about a year ago or so and passed the first stage which consisted in the usual first day assessement.
I was then invited for the second stage, a sim ride on a bac 1-11.
Used to Flight Directors I chose to fly the profile using it as it was allowed but when it came to it, I realised a little late how different this one was.
Indeed this sim was equipped with a very basic FD, requiring a lot more manual input than a standard "Follow Me".
Flew the profile within limit but very untidy and a bit behind so I wasn't surprised when I heard I had failed.
Now if I had been a little bit more committed to it, I would have hired a Trident sim (or similar) to give myself time to practice and perhaps I would have passed this one.
That s the difference between the selection I took for my present employer and BACitixpress.
For those of you wondering why I didn't try harder to pass BACX's ride, there are three reasons.
- I was broke
- Working for a small operator, taking a day off for a sim ride was possible but for another day or two to get practice time was impossible.
- The main one really, I had already been selected to work for a much bigger and in my view more prestigious outfit with long term career prospects (if that still exists). Only a matter of time before I was to be recalled but since I didn't know how long for, I went along with it just in case...
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Hi guys!
Seems that most of you that are replying seem to have an fATPL already!
Well for my contribution i dont have one. Applied for BA cadetship back in the days, got through to testing stage, passed that then went on to final board and this where it went wrong. When i got the it is "with regret to inform you" letter i was gutted. BA were great cos i called up for feed back and actually spoke to the line pilot that was one of my interviewers.
He told me what i lacked was life experience, common thing at 19. It was to do with the my way of thinking, that i needed to be more open minded to alternatives and more confident. He also told me how i performed on the group assesment and what i can do to improve myself.
I took notes on what was said and left it a year then applied again. Studied my notes hard and looked at myself to see where i had developed over the year. Got past the application stage then failed horribly on the maths test! Aw man! Dont know how, lack of prep most likley. Then after that sept 11th came and my dream was over.
Strange the way things work out and how i was so close but ended up so far away from my goal.
Maths seems to be a big problem for me since then. Maybe cos when at college its fresh but after you leave you get lazy.
Since then i applied for ctc but never got passed the application stage. Aw well!
Just thought i'd let you know about my heart ache!
Kempus
Seems that most of you that are replying seem to have an fATPL already!
Well for my contribution i dont have one. Applied for BA cadetship back in the days, got through to testing stage, passed that then went on to final board and this where it went wrong. When i got the it is "with regret to inform you" letter i was gutted. BA were great cos i called up for feed back and actually spoke to the line pilot that was one of my interviewers.
He told me what i lacked was life experience, common thing at 19. It was to do with the my way of thinking, that i needed to be more open minded to alternatives and more confident. He also told me how i performed on the group assesment and what i can do to improve myself.
I took notes on what was said and left it a year then applied again. Studied my notes hard and looked at myself to see where i had developed over the year. Got past the application stage then failed horribly on the maths test! Aw man! Dont know how, lack of prep most likley. Then after that sept 11th came and my dream was over.
Strange the way things work out and how i was so close but ended up so far away from my goal.
Maths seems to be a big problem for me since then. Maybe cos when at college its fresh but after you leave you get lazy.
Since then i applied for ctc but never got passed the application stage. Aw well!
Just thought i'd let you know about my heart ache!
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BACX
AMEX:
The main one really, I had already been selected to work for a much bigger and in my view more prestigious outfit with long term career prospects
Gave me a laugh, mainly because its probably true - lucky escape!
The main one really, I had already been selected to work for a much bigger and in my view more prestigious outfit with long term career prospects
Gave me a laugh, mainly because its probably true - lucky escape!
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Speaking of which guys
i have been accepted at OAT selection process ( i have Bad GCSE's Graded D's!, 1 NVQ and Some City/Guids Quals
)
But theyve still asked me to attend.... now.
1) Why? I was shocked when i found out with my grades
2) How can i avoid being a selection failure?!?!
i have been accepted at OAT selection process ( i have Bad GCSE's Graded D's!, 1 NVQ and Some City/Guids Quals
) But theyve still asked me to attend.... now.1) Why? I was shocked when i found out with my grades
2) How can i avoid being a selection failure?!?!
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Meeb... and I shall be drinking to that tonight.Big lesson though, I have experienced first hand both failure and success and think I have identified the difference between the two.
Who knows ? Might become useful in the years to come but not before I decide so, hopefully.
