Britannia 1st Stage
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Britannia 1st Stage
Hi guys, i have a assessment day with Britannia on Wed 22nd - can anyone give me some advice? What to expect, example questions etc.....
Anything would be appreciated,
many thanks
Anything would be appreciated,
many thanks
Join Date: Feb 2003
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If you look on the thread called "Good News", that is all about this very subject, including some hints and tips from those who have just been through it.
Good luck with the assessment day.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=102978]
Here is the link
Good luck with the assessment day.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=102978]
Here is the link
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Hi Bail out, if you are attending a first assesment day with Britannia then it means that the fifty or so people who attended with myself for the same a couple of weeks ago were not all as fortunate as we had hoped. I, with my 250 hours was just as surprised to be called as I was to find that I fell short of the pass grade on the day. I am no mensa but I do have a first class BSc Hon Degree, and passed all ATPL within five months, first time self taught etc etc. Infact, having never failed a test or exam in my life I was somewhat bemused to fall, at what seemed to be a pretty straight forward obstical. You can expect two tests to start, the first a reading and understanding logical reasoning sort of ordeal, the second a maths quick fire round. Then a group discussion followed by personnality questions, 185 ASAP. I would be very interested to find out how many people were fortunate enough to sail through to the sim. Most there were line pilots from all over looking to upgrade. Good luck, as I think this is what is required.
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Most there were line pilots from all over looking to upgrade. Good luck, as I think this is what is required.
PP
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Pilot Pete, thankyou for your assistance via your web page prior to my assessment day. I feel that you have taken my remark as a direct attack at you and or your airline. It was purley one borne out of frustration at what seems to me a strange way of 'employing people'. Without any contact other than my pressence at an exam, a company can ascertain whether or not I will match up. I understand that this is a selection process and probably very effective at that, but it can not be described in the same context as employing people (I am presuming by this you refer to personalities not bodies).There is a common phenomena known as Cambridge University syndrome that refers to a mould. This is a mould that first had to obtain the grade (at A level) to prove a level of academic ability, but then pass a selection process that is very contact interview orientated. The end result is a candidate who will fit the mould, pass the exams and be a shining example to the university. In Britannias case (and others) they are applying a test that seemingly over rules A levels, Degree and ATPL, a total of seven years studying cancelled out by two hours of tests that can only highlight an ability at passing such tests. I do not wish to attack you or the airline recruitment policy of any company in particular but please don't try and tell me that this is employing people (as per my previous assumption). Employing people means to judge them by there record of achievement and how they conduct themselves during an interview. I would not be applying for a job as a commercial pilot if I did not already have a licence demonstrating a level of flying and technical ability sufficient to apply to the job, with training. Therefore all that should be required is a personality profile test and interview, in theory.
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One morning a Chief Pilot walks into his office and looks at his desk. On it there were approximately 1000 CV’s from people wanting pilot employment with his airline.
His deputy sees him and says, “We really must try and get that pile down a bit”.
“Indeed” says the chief pilot, and with that he picks up half of the CV’s and throws them in the bin.
“Blimey” says the deputy “are you sure that was the right thing to do ?”
“Certainly” replies the chief, “the last thing we need in this airline are ‘unlucky’ pilots !”
I recall somebody wrote in another thread...... “you should try to see the world as it really is, rather than how you would like it to be” ..... which, imho, is wise advice.
The reality is that there are thousands of wannabe airline pilots, and they are all chasing just a handful of jobs – some will get those jobs, and ergo a great many will not; plus, a great many of that great many will never ever get to pilot an airliner ( but they don’t tell you that, when you’re training for your fATPL, as it’s bad for business ! )
If you’re an airline, and you’ve got to whittle several hundred people down to just a handful, then it’s slash & burn and there’s no time for sentiment – wherein nobody said anything about it being ‘right’ and / or ‘fair’, it’s just how it is.
Tenminutes, for all we know you might actually have passed their test(s), indeed you might have got 100% - but problem might be..... so did everybody else !
Then, with you having only 250 hours, in association with the colour of your socks, plus the chief pilot chucking things in the bin...... and, hey presto, you and many others are not in ranks of the handful.
Veritably, sh!t happens - get used to it, it’s the airline business !
His deputy sees him and says, “We really must try and get that pile down a bit”.
“Indeed” says the chief pilot, and with that he picks up half of the CV’s and throws them in the bin.
“Blimey” says the deputy “are you sure that was the right thing to do ?”
“Certainly” replies the chief, “the last thing we need in this airline are ‘unlucky’ pilots !”
I recall somebody wrote in another thread...... “you should try to see the world as it really is, rather than how you would like it to be” ..... which, imho, is wise advice.
The reality is that there are thousands of wannabe airline pilots, and they are all chasing just a handful of jobs – some will get those jobs, and ergo a great many will not; plus, a great many of that great many will never ever get to pilot an airliner ( but they don’t tell you that, when you’re training for your fATPL, as it’s bad for business ! )
If you’re an airline, and you’ve got to whittle several hundred people down to just a handful, then it’s slash & burn and there’s no time for sentiment – wherein nobody said anything about it being ‘right’ and / or ‘fair’, it’s just how it is.
Tenminutes, for all we know you might actually have passed their test(s), indeed you might have got 100% - but problem might be..... so did everybody else !
Then, with you having only 250 hours, in association with the colour of your socks, plus the chief pilot chucking things in the bin...... and, hey presto, you and many others are not in ranks of the handful.
Veritably, sh!t happens - get used to it, it’s the airline business !
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Tenminutes
My comments were not meant to cause offence, to you or anyone else who has attempted the selection procedure. I have not taken your comments personally and don't feel I have to defend my airline. All I am attempting to do is point out the way it appears, from my point of view, having been through exactly the same selection tests and knowing several individuals who have also done the same, many unsuccessfully.
When I say that Britannia employ people, my point is they do not employ based purely on what is written on a bit of paper (your application form), meaning that all the hours in the world, type ratings, degrees, A levels, charity work and whatever else in itself will not guarantee you a job over the 250hr wannabe who jumps through all the selection hoops and who performs better throughout the selection process. This of course is tempered with demographics based on age, experience etc etc as you can't employ everyone with no experience, but nature pretty much takes care of that with a bit of assistance from the recruiters.
Again, I don't wish to be rude, but thats what all tests do. It doesn't matter about your track record, it's about your performance on the day and let's face it the written exams are basic stuff, nothing overly complicated, just with a strict time limit which puts the pressure on. They are relevant and do the job they are designed to do which is to filter out those that have the basic grounding and who can perform under pressure. Life in an airline is no different. Remember, one goes in the sim every six months and must prove one's ongoing ability and you're only as good as your last sim, it doesn't matter that you have been great in the past if you can't pass the next one.
Again, this is theory, but much different from the reality. Everyone who applies for the job presumably has the licence issued and thinks they are good enough. But, reality is they are not, some being misguided in ever persuing this career, some being excellent on paper but not in person and so on and so forth. The airline(s) want individuals that fit their requirements, whatever they be and that's why they run selection tests. Some run more than others, some just having that 'cosy chat' with the Chief Pilot and trusting his judgement, others like Britannia trying to use a bit of science to back up the thoughts of the interviewers.
The licence does not differentiate between those who will go on to be Chief Pilots and those who just managed to scrape through their training, took more time than most and who, to be honest have very few other skills that would be desirable to an employer.
I understand the frustration of those who have recently been unsuccessful with any airline recruitment process. What you have to ask yourself is;
1. Why did I fail? Have you got feedback?
2. Was I fully prepared for the procedure, could I have improved my performance with more prep?
3. Did I perform to the best of my abilities on the day?
4. What am I going to do to ensure that, given another chance I don't make the same mistakes again?
It all comes down to controlling the elements that you can control and limiting the potential for failure. For instance, if you are not the best mathematician in the world you need to identify that in yourself and get some decent preparation by way of practice in before the day. You need to find out as much as you can about any potential employer and their selection tests. You presumably did lots of prep before your IR test, so why treat an interview/ selection procedure any differently? You are trying to achieve the same - an acceptable level of competence to pass the test(s). Sadly, many people leave it until they have had a bad experience before they realise this and in the current market that may be too late, there are just too many good candidates out there applying.
I've said it before, and will say it again, do everything possible to control the elements of a selection that you can control and don't fail because of something that you should have been on top of. If you are going to fail let it be because you did your best but on this occassion that just wasn't quite good enough.
Best of luck to you all.
PP
My comments were not meant to cause offence, to you or anyone else who has attempted the selection procedure. I have not taken your comments personally and don't feel I have to defend my airline. All I am attempting to do is point out the way it appears, from my point of view, having been through exactly the same selection tests and knowing several individuals who have also done the same, many unsuccessfully.
When I say that Britannia employ people, my point is they do not employ based purely on what is written on a bit of paper (your application form), meaning that all the hours in the world, type ratings, degrees, A levels, charity work and whatever else in itself will not guarantee you a job over the 250hr wannabe who jumps through all the selection hoops and who performs better throughout the selection process. This of course is tempered with demographics based on age, experience etc etc as you can't employ everyone with no experience, but nature pretty much takes care of that with a bit of assistance from the recruiters.
they are applying a test that seemingly over rules A levels, Degree and ATPL, a total of seven years studying cancelled out by two hours of tests that can only highlight an ability at passing such tests.
Employing people means to judge them by there record of achievement and how they conduct themselves during an interview. I would not be applying for a job as a commercial pilot if I did not already have a licence demonstrating a level of flying and technical ability sufficient to apply to the job, with training. Therefore all that should be required is a personality profile test and interview, in theory.
The licence does not differentiate between those who will go on to be Chief Pilots and those who just managed to scrape through their training, took more time than most and who, to be honest have very few other skills that would be desirable to an employer.
I understand the frustration of those who have recently been unsuccessful with any airline recruitment process. What you have to ask yourself is;
1. Why did I fail? Have you got feedback?
2. Was I fully prepared for the procedure, could I have improved my performance with more prep?
3. Did I perform to the best of my abilities on the day?
4. What am I going to do to ensure that, given another chance I don't make the same mistakes again?
It all comes down to controlling the elements that you can control and limiting the potential for failure. For instance, if you are not the best mathematician in the world you need to identify that in yourself and get some decent preparation by way of practice in before the day. You need to find out as much as you can about any potential employer and their selection tests. You presumably did lots of prep before your IR test, so why treat an interview/ selection procedure any differently? You are trying to achieve the same - an acceptable level of competence to pass the test(s). Sadly, many people leave it until they have had a bad experience before they realise this and in the current market that may be too late, there are just too many good candidates out there applying.
I've said it before, and will say it again, do everything possible to control the elements of a selection that you can control and don't fail because of something that you should have been on top of. If you are going to fail let it be because you did your best but on this occassion that just wasn't quite good enough.
Best of luck to you all.
PP
