View Poll Results: Should PPL Instructors wear a collar and tie?
no - pretentious
172
44.44%
yes - I think I look good
215
55.56%
Voters: 387. This poll is closed
PPL Instructors wearing collar and tie
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I think the students feel you're more professional if you wear a "uniform" and it gives them confidence in you. Where I learned some instructors did and some didn't and it was quite obvious that the ones who did got more students asking for them.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I taught completly in the nude once. But then she was my Girlfriend, and come to think of it we weren't in an aeroplane or in fact doing anything to do with flying.
Oh well, think I'll go back to my Vodka now.
Oh well, think I'll go back to my Vodka now.
Join Date: May 2003
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Cubbuster,
Somehow I suspect your father was referring to "suits".
I think we'd all spot spivs or conmen sporting a collection of soft furnishings ....
Sorry. I'll be popping off for my lesson at Miss Prim's School for Picky Pedants now ... just hope she's wearing her collar and tie !
FF
As my father used to say, "never forget that spivs and con-men always wear suites".
I think we'd all spot spivs or conmen sporting a collection of soft furnishings ....
Sorry. I'll be popping off for my lesson at Miss Prim's School for Picky Pedants now ... just hope she's wearing her collar and tie !
FF
Join Date: Sep 1999
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Many years ago I used to be checked by one of American Airlines retired "originals". He flew for them in WW2 and could even tell stories about flying right seat for Captain Ernie Gann.
Unfortunately, "Franks" experience did not extend to sartorial elegance in any form-indeed, he always looked like an unmade bed.
The policy at the Flight Academy was that instructors wore ties. One day another instructor looked at him and challenged his dress code. His tie was, as usual, covered in food and coffee stains and hanging around his mid-chest.
Frank replied by agreeing that the rules called for a tie but added:
"There ain't nothing in the rules that call for it to be clean ...or done up!"
Since none of us is ever likely to be in a position of strength like Frank, I support the tie (Clean and done up) philosophy.
Unfortunately, "Franks" experience did not extend to sartorial elegance in any form-indeed, he always looked like an unmade bed.
The policy at the Flight Academy was that instructors wore ties. One day another instructor looked at him and challenged his dress code. His tie was, as usual, covered in food and coffee stains and hanging around his mid-chest.
Frank replied by agreeing that the rules called for a tie but added:
"There ain't nothing in the rules that call for it to be clean ...or done up!"
Since none of us is ever likely to be in a position of strength like Frank, I support the tie (Clean and done up) philosophy.
Last edited by Lou Scannon; 30th Jan 2005 at 10:59.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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At the school I taught at it was expected of the instructors to wear ties in the winter time but when summer rolled around we wore a summer shirt with open neck for practical reasons in the hot SA sun.
Partly this was to set the standard. As an organisation we are in the business of teaching both private and professional pilots. how will they know what is accepted by the industry both in terms of dress and behaviour if the example is not set by those people who they look up to.
The students do not have a uniform as such but wear flying overalls. They even wear eppaulettes that show were in the course they have progressed to. Not because it's funny or pretentious, but even at that point to get used to, on a small scale, what will be expected of them as profesional pilots and job seekers.
my 2cents worth!
Partly this was to set the standard. As an organisation we are in the business of teaching both private and professional pilots. how will they know what is accepted by the industry both in terms of dress and behaviour if the example is not set by those people who they look up to.
The students do not have a uniform as such but wear flying overalls. They even wear eppaulettes that show were in the course they have progressed to. Not because it's funny or pretentious, but even at that point to get used to, on a small scale, what will be expected of them as profesional pilots and job seekers.
my 2cents worth!
Está servira para distraerle.
I absolutely deplore the sartorial slobbishness of so many pilots who treat their uniform with a greater disregard than they would their gardening blue jeans. It is a disrespect to oneself to dress down and to blob through airports as though the meatballs mean nothing. But as for students; I would have their heads shaved completely and let the length and excellence of their professional experieince be indicated by the magnificent munificence of their locks as they sprouted forth again. Unless, of course, the student were a woman.
I always used to wear white leather gloves, in ZA, in summer because of palm sweat and in winter in the UK because of the cold, cold yoke on The North Sea Route.
This had an added advantage, especially in the UK, but also occasionally with ex Hunter pilots. These fast jet chappies would profess curiosity as to whether I was ex RAF, of whatever country. This allowed me to bashfully admit that I was not, but that possibly I had flown for The Fleet Air Arm, the ones that do carrier landings where the landing length available is about the same as the runway width at Upington or Mildenhall.
A rather lively discussion as to what constituted a slow jet then usually followed.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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As a complete aside...but on the subject of what not to wear...
I was in LAX the other week and passed a number of US flight crew wearing Airline issue leather bomber jackets!!
Now is THAT pretentious or not!!..but hey!, that's America for you!
On the subject of shirts and ties, my vote is yes. Instructors may not be paid as a professional, but they should at least look like one. But PLEASE, ...no stripes or wings
unless...the pay is good enough!!
I was in LAX the other week and passed a number of US flight crew wearing Airline issue leather bomber jackets!!
Now is THAT pretentious or not!!..but hey!, that's America for you!
On the subject of shirts and ties, my vote is yes. Instructors may not be paid as a professional, but they should at least look like one. But PLEASE, ...no stripes or wings
unless...the pay is good enough!!
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Here we go again!!!....THE SPELLING POLICE!!!
If the best you can offer is a spell check service then, give us a break and go join some other 'intellectual' forum.
Some of us can't spell for peanuts but... we can fly, teach at a commercial level, hold down a job and make a positive contribution to our industry and ...to PPRune.
We DO spell check our CV's, application letters and business correspondence and.... get it right ...get jobs and write coherent begging letters to our Bank managers.
This is a site where we 'dip in' quickly,... help one another, and have a bit of a laugh without the time to spell check or worry about other members being anal.... so PLEASE get a life and comment on content not punctuiation
By the way 'pseudonymf', your grammar stinks and I hope you wear a shirt, tie, gold bars, cap and wings to compensate!!!
If the best you can offer is a spell check service then, give us a break and go join some other 'intellectual' forum.
Some of us can't spell for peanuts but... we can fly, teach at a commercial level, hold down a job and make a positive contribution to our industry and ...to PPRune.
We DO spell check our CV's, application letters and business correspondence and.... get it right ...get jobs and write coherent begging letters to our Bank managers.
This is a site where we 'dip in' quickly,... help one another, and have a bit of a laugh without the time to spell check or worry about other members being anal.... so PLEASE get a life and comment on content not punctuiation
By the way 'pseudonymf', your grammar stinks and I hope you wear a shirt, tie, gold bars, cap and wings to compensate!!!
Last edited by clear prop!!!; 2nd Mar 2005 at 23:25.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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For what its worth:
A tie is not essential for a smart appearance, as has already been stated. As mentioned earlier as well, the heat of a 150 cockpit in summer (assuming we get one :-( ) would make the wearing of a tie very uncomfortable and fatiguing. That cannot be a good thing.
How about this argument for the banning of the tie:
They are definitely a loose article hazard.
Scenario: During exagerated 'unusual attitudes' the cussed tie wraps around the control yoke, and then the pilot repositions his hand on the yoke and trapping the tie in position. Potential control restriction during a period when full control is required.
Ok, my example may be a little far fetched but many workplaces ban any loose clothing and trinkets on equally flimsy safety grounds.
BAN THE TIE!!!
A tie is not essential for a smart appearance, as has already been stated. As mentioned earlier as well, the heat of a 150 cockpit in summer (assuming we get one :-( ) would make the wearing of a tie very uncomfortable and fatiguing. That cannot be a good thing.
How about this argument for the banning of the tie:
They are definitely a loose article hazard.
Scenario: During exagerated 'unusual attitudes' the cussed tie wraps around the control yoke, and then the pilot repositions his hand on the yoke and trapping the tie in position. Potential control restriction during a period when full control is required.
Ok, my example may be a little far fetched but many workplaces ban any loose clothing and trinkets on equally flimsy safety grounds.
BAN THE TIE!!!
Está servira para distraerle.
Yes, but, should we not, in the inerest of sartorial elegance, keep the tie and ensure that, as worn by any good CAA examiner, the same is enclosed within a double breasted jacket of a heavy wool mix, with, at the least, gold bars. Perhaps, upon reflection, they should be of platinum hue.Do not ban the tie. bring back uniforms, full dress, for instructors.
Now, on to caps............
Join Date: Oct 2004
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The Tie
Dynamic Apathy. our scenario a little far fetched! I must say i salute your vivid imagination and skillful story telling.
But, agree totally. Ties are for out of style 80's throwbacks with no perception of taste and reality. Althogh, I could be sitting on the fence there.
I have not read all the threads on this subject because so far its R E A L L Y
L O N G.
I vote for crevats. Silky and comfortable any time of the year. (depending on where you attach it)
But, agree totally. Ties are for out of style 80's throwbacks with no perception of taste and reality. Althogh, I could be sitting on the fence there.
I have not read all the threads on this subject because so far its R E A L L Y
L O N G.
I vote for crevats. Silky and comfortable any time of the year. (depending on where you attach it)
Oooh good. Next time I go to Cabair I shall dress up like some Ruritanian bandmaster with at least 5 gold bars and those dangly gold thread things worn by some cavalwy wedgiments!
Ladies and Gentlemen, it's difficult to believe that so much heat can be generated over whether or not to wrap a bit of fabric round your neck. When I started work as a tender 21 year-old professional (ie graduate) electronics engineer it was necessary to wear a suit and tie - but that was in 1976. In 2005 there are VERY few professional organisations in the more progressive areas of industry that still expect a tie (and many are happy with Jeans, or even shorts in the summer) - people are assessed on performance. A monkey in a suit and tie is still a monkey.
There's value in wearing some sort of "uniform" (white shirt and dark trousers) just so that staff can be identified but logo-ed sweatshirts would be as good.
BTW, ref Beags' comment, I'm sure there was a joke of sorts from my pubescent years that ended "but she knew what wedgi meant" - anybody know what it is?
There's value in wearing some sort of "uniform" (white shirt and dark trousers) just so that staff can be identified but logo-ed sweatshirts would be as good.
BTW, ref Beags' comment, I'm sure there was a joke of sorts from my pubescent years that ended "but she knew what wedgi meant" - anybody know what it is?
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Ha ha,
What an interesting funny thread.
My favorite bit, was when some guy came on said that he quit his job because he didn't like the way one of his colleagues dressed.
What poor pathetic losers their are in this industry.
I am happy to say there are not so many of them in the helicopter industry, however there are a few, who like to wear all the badges and bars as they can, maybe its because they haven’t achieved much else in life, or maybe they are trying to compensate for a lack of ability!
I have no interest in instructing a student who would comment on my dress sense when I am trying to instill knowledge that has no relevance to fashion.
Fortunately I have only ever come across this scenario once or twice.
Where I work now, most of my customers are self made and if I came in with any preconceptions about myself and tried to pretend that I am something that I am not, they would smell it a mile off and just walk!
Some of the fixed wing guys just can’t seem to get their head around that, and often pass comment, but at the end of the day, they are sitting on the ground far more then me!
Your dress sense determines your professionalism?
Get a life!
What an interesting funny thread.
My favorite bit, was when some guy came on said that he quit his job because he didn't like the way one of his colleagues dressed.
What poor pathetic losers their are in this industry.
I am happy to say there are not so many of them in the helicopter industry, however there are a few, who like to wear all the badges and bars as they can, maybe its because they haven’t achieved much else in life, or maybe they are trying to compensate for a lack of ability!
I have no interest in instructing a student who would comment on my dress sense when I am trying to instill knowledge that has no relevance to fashion.
Fortunately I have only ever come across this scenario once or twice.
Where I work now, most of my customers are self made and if I came in with any preconceptions about myself and tried to pretend that I am something that I am not, they would smell it a mile off and just walk!
Some of the fixed wing guys just can’t seem to get their head around that, and often pass comment, but at the end of the day, they are sitting on the ground far more then me!
Your dress sense determines your professionalism?
Get a life!
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Have come to this topic late so forgive me if I go over old ground.
I was a full-time instructor for 2 yrs or so and now do the odd bit of ad-hoc instr - mostly TLs. I believe that the instructor should wear a collar and tie and be smarlty attired - it's called looking and being professional for goodness sake!! I personally would not feel right turning up to work in anything other than black and whites - and no, I don't (and never have) worn crunchy bars in my capacity as an instr. As a paying customer I would expect my instructor to be dressed appropriately. Call me old fashioned but to me, the poll results and the existence of this thread are indicative of the times we live in.
Prepare to be shot down by the PC brigade!!!!
I was a full-time instructor for 2 yrs or so and now do the odd bit of ad-hoc instr - mostly TLs. I believe that the instructor should wear a collar and tie and be smarlty attired - it's called looking and being professional for goodness sake!! I personally would not feel right turning up to work in anything other than black and whites - and no, I don't (and never have) worn crunchy bars in my capacity as an instr. As a paying customer I would expect my instructor to be dressed appropriately. Call me old fashioned but to me, the poll results and the existence of this thread are indicative of the times we live in.
Prepare to be shot down by the PC brigade!!!!