The teaching of (or absence of) bounced landing recovery at flying schools
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
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Try and land a 180/185 after a bounce without power... Thought it's a pretty basic technique? Obviously if you're short fielding into a paddock or small strip you haven't got that option, but as far as learning to recover a bounce, power is definitely the way to go.
'Fraid I've only got 10,000+ hours instructing in light aircraft, never flown the 737, never wanted to.
I learn from experience not form what I read or what other people tell me their instructors told them.
You need to be able to recover from a bounce without power in case you have no power.
I learn from experience not form what I read or what other people tell me their instructors told them.
You need to be able to recover from a bounce without power in case you have no power.
I'm also for the use of 'appropriate' power - having seen some amazing crashes due to freezing on the throttle and hoping full back stick will save the day. It might for a small bounce of a couple metres, but the 180/185 type bounce, (= a 'big red' effort), needs really co-ordinated recovery.
happy days,
happy days,
Moderator
Horatio, your comment
"I am surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the wording of the Day VFR Syllabus - which requires the recovery from a bounce WITHOUT ADDING POWER."
requires context.
It is in the unit A5.5 "Execute short take-off and landing" and says
"Controls ballooning during flare and bouncing after touchdown by adjustment of attitude without the application of power"
if they can't do that then the student is "not yet competent" in Unit A5.5, and you should refer to A4.3 "Perform mishandled landing procedures" ie "recognises when the landing standard cannot be achieved and implements a decision to perform mishandled landing (13)."
(13) refers to footnote "means to recognise an abnormal landing and recover the aircraft to controlled flight. often associated with a go-around".
"I am surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the wording of the Day VFR Syllabus - which requires the recovery from a bounce WITHOUT ADDING POWER."
requires context.
It is in the unit A5.5 "Execute short take-off and landing" and says
"Controls ballooning during flare and bouncing after touchdown by adjustment of attitude without the application of power"
if they can't do that then the student is "not yet competent" in Unit A5.5, and you should refer to A4.3 "Perform mishandled landing procedures" ie "recognises when the landing standard cannot be achieved and implements a decision to perform mishandled landing (13)."
(13) refers to footnote "means to recognise an abnormal landing and recover the aircraft to controlled flight. often associated with a go-around".
Hi CFI,
Actually it is repeated in A4.1 "Land Aeroplane":
...and again in A4.2 "Land aeroplane in crosswind":
A landing can be stuffed up and safely recovered with the appropriate use of power - which might be no power, or full power, or points in between.
I would rather see a student stuff it up in a test, and safely and competently recover, than perform perfectly. It is their assessment of the situation and the application of appropriate and safe recovery measures that properly demonstrates their competence.
I agree that recovering a bounce without power is important, but blindly trying to recover without power in a situation that demands it (because you are trying to satisfy words in a CASA document) is folly.
Actually it is repeated in A4.1 "Land Aeroplane":
Controls ballooning during flare and bouncing after touchdown by adjustment of attitude without the application of power
Controls ballooning during flare and bouncing after touchdown by adjustment of attitude without the application of power
I would rather see a student stuff it up in a test, and safely and competently recover, than perform perfectly. It is their assessment of the situation and the application of appropriate and safe recovery measures that properly demonstrates their competence.
I agree that recovering a bounce without power is important, but blindly trying to recover without power in a situation that demands it (because you are trying to satisfy words in a CASA document) is folly.
OK, you asked what glider pilots do for a bounced landing. I instruct on power (Dr400) and gliders, and fly a Cub for fun. In most glider landings we will be using airbrake, which will reduce to performançe from around 35 to 1 glide angle to about 10 to 1. So closing the airbrake will have much the same effect as partially opening the throttle. The basic teaching is to reduce the airbrake, and hold the stick where it is until the glider starts to descend again. At this point, without changing the airbrake setting, round out again, and hold off as usual. Once on the ground, go to full airbrake, wheel brake as required. Generally speaking, most training gliders have fairly benign handling, and not too much tendency to bounce, but we do look for a fully held off landing.
Some single seaters are happier with a more "flown on" style of landing, as are one or two high performance two seaters, but this is usually due to reduced aileron authority with flaps in landing settings. Generally speaking, a glider will be more akin to a power taildragger than a nosewheel type. However, most students will be solo after about eight hours and forty or so landings, assuming a reasonable amount of soaring in the early stages of training. Say about five or six flights between 30 minutes and an hour, then a number of shorter flights while learning circuit planning, aerotow launching, and landings. Winch trained pilots on a flat site typically have fewer hours to solo,but more landings, due to (usually) shorter flights.
Some single seaters are happier with a more "flown on" style of landing, as are one or two high performance two seaters, but this is usually due to reduced aileron authority with flaps in landing settings. Generally speaking, a glider will be more akin to a power taildragger than a nosewheel type. However, most students will be solo after about eight hours and forty or so landings, assuming a reasonable amount of soaring in the early stages of training. Say about five or six flights between 30 minutes and an hour, then a number of shorter flights while learning circuit planning, aerotow launching, and landings. Winch trained pilots on a flat site typically have fewer hours to solo,but more landings, due to (usually) shorter flights.
