Logging a biennial revue?
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Logging a biennial revue?
Hi All,
My second biennial revue flight is due and I知 not sure how it should be logged? Last time it was clear cut Pu/t as I took it in a club aeroplane with a club instructor and it doubled as a check flight. This time I知 planning to fly to a private strip in my own aeroplane (well my group aeroplane actually) and pick up an instructor friend. As the flight isn稚 intended to be instructional and in theory is simply to satisfy an instructor I can fly ok, I知 guessing it should be logged P1? Two complications I can see are; that normally flights with an instructor/examiner are Pu/t unless they are deemed a successful test to allow P1/S, but if a counter signature is required how can it be logged P1? And the other problem is that this tailwheel aircraft only has full controls on one side (brakes) and I have to be that side as I知 insured and he is not.
Any answers?
SS
My second biennial revue flight is due and I知 not sure how it should be logged? Last time it was clear cut Pu/t as I took it in a club aeroplane with a club instructor and it doubled as a check flight. This time I知 planning to fly to a private strip in my own aeroplane (well my group aeroplane actually) and pick up an instructor friend. As the flight isn稚 intended to be instructional and in theory is simply to satisfy an instructor I can fly ok, I知 guessing it should be logged P1? Two complications I can see are; that normally flights with an instructor/examiner are Pu/t unless they are deemed a successful test to allow P1/S, but if a counter signature is required how can it be logged P1? And the other problem is that this tailwheel aircraft only has full controls on one side (brakes) and I have to be that side as I知 insured and he is not.
Any answers?
SS
A biennial flight review is an FAA requirement. Ask an FAA instructor.
Under JAR-FCL, if revalidating your SEP Class Rating by experience, you must fly a 1 hr training flight with a JAR FI in the second 2 year period. The FI will be the a/c commander; he/she will discuss the content of the flight with you.
The FI will decide whether he/she is happy to fly in your aeroplane as Commander without being insured to fly it; do you have passenger liability insurance yet?
The FI will need to sign your logbook stating that this was a 'training flight'.
How you log it is up to you - but it cannot be as PIC. I would suggest that you are a qualified pilot acting under the supervision of a FI and log it accordingly.
Suggest you also take a look at AIC 7/2004 (White 94) http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aic/4W094.PDF (you will need to log in to the AIS site).
Under JAR-FCL, if revalidating your SEP Class Rating by experience, you must fly a 1 hr training flight with a JAR FI in the second 2 year period. The FI will be the a/c commander; he/she will discuss the content of the flight with you.
The FI will decide whether he/she is happy to fly in your aeroplane as Commander without being insured to fly it; do you have passenger liability insurance yet?
The FI will need to sign your logbook stating that this was a 'training flight'.
How you log it is up to you - but it cannot be as PIC. I would suggest that you are a qualified pilot acting under the supervision of a FI and log it accordingly.
Suggest you also take a look at AIC 7/2004 (White 94) http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aic/4W094.PDF (you will need to log in to the AIS site).
Last edited by BEagle; 17th Apr 2005 at 07:13.
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Thanks Beagle,
Yes it's a revalidation flight I am talking about and your link led me on a trail that finished with http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aic/4W378.PDF which clearly spells out the flight itself. Like you say it IS a training flight, which is something I hadn't realised.
You say
... do you mean P1/S then? ... I'm not really fussed and happy to log as Pu/t but lke as this logging it gets blooming confusing 
I think the idea of the revalidation flight is a good one, but it was so much simpler in the days of a simple CofE!
SS
Yes it's a revalidation flight I am talking about and your link led me on a trail that finished with http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aic/4W378.PDF which clearly spells out the flight itself. Like you say it IS a training flight, which is something I hadn't realised.
You say
How you log it is up to you - but it cannot be as PIC. I would suggest that you are a qualified pilot acting under the supervision of a FI and log it accordingly.
I think the idea of the revalidation flight is a good one, but it was so much simpler in the days of a simple CofE!SS
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BEagle is right.
But as to the P1.s thingy, well I would suggest as its not a test then it has to be PUT.
This is a training flight as per JAR-FCL. Because in reality to split hairs, to log P1/s it has to be a succesful flight test which it ain't.
Personally if I saw your log book to revalidate your SEP I would'nt be too fussed if you had logged P1.s or PUT, I would just ask you to change it to PUT as really it is a DUAL flight. Certainly not as P1 though! A contradiction that one!
But as to the P1.s thingy, well I would suggest as its not a test then it has to be PUT.
This is a training flight as per JAR-FCL. Because in reality to split hairs, to log P1/s it has to be a succesful flight test which it ain't.
Personally if I saw your log book to revalidate your SEP I would'nt be too fussed if you had logged P1.s or PUT, I would just ask you to change it to PUT as really it is a DUAL flight. Certainly not as P1 though! A contradiction that one!
You cannot oblige anyone to enter the capacity in which they acted by 'asking' them to change an entry in a personal logbook. All you may do is to remind them that the Commander was the FI and to sign the 'remarks' column stating that this was a training flight.
It doesn't matter a jot whether the flight is logged as P u/t or PICU/S - neither count as PIC time for any 'hours building' requirement towards mandatory licence totals.
That the JAA cannot understand that a qualified pilot can act under supervision in this way is the cause of all the confusion.
It doesn't matter a jot whether the flight is logged as P u/t or PICU/S - neither count as PIC time for any 'hours building' requirement towards mandatory licence totals.
That the JAA cannot understand that a qualified pilot can act under supervision in this way is the cause of all the confusion.
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Understand all so far. But as far as I know, the test is simlply PIC since you are being tested as the commander of the aircraft. No /s or/us, just straight PIC. I was under the impression that P1 U/S was only valid for multi crew aircraft (and hold a P1 LPC) or when flying solo prior to the award of a licence. It's all JAR to me!
Nope, you are most certainly NOT PIC if you are on a training flight under the direction of a FI in JAA-land.
That's some weird thing they do in the USA!
That's some weird thing they do in the USA!
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I guess it would depend on which route you are taking for your 'renewal'.
If it is on the basis of a 1 hour instructional flight plus meeting the number of hours required in the year preceeding the renewal, then it surely has to be logged as PUT.
If it is renewed by carrying out a 'skill test' or 'proficiency check' with an examiner, then I think it would be P1S.
As is normally the case with legislation, nothing is ever written down clearly
If it is on the basis of a 1 hour instructional flight plus meeting the number of hours required in the year preceeding the renewal, then it surely has to be logged as PUT.
If it is renewed by carrying out a 'skill test' or 'proficiency check' with an examiner, then I think it would be P1S.
As is normally the case with legislation, nothing is ever written down clearly
Boomerangben: a training flight is PUT, a satisfactory flight test is P1/S, an unsatisfactory flight test is PUT - info is in LASORS (as always).
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And PIC is when you are on your tod!
P1.S can and is used in multi crew for the F/o when Pilot Flying under the supervision of the Captain.
BEagle, you're quite right about not changing the entry. I just couldn't be arsed to explain all that. Yes I would enlighten the chap to his inappropriate entry and lean him towards the outcome! You know what I mean.
P1.S can and is used in multi crew for the F/o when Pilot Flying under the supervision of the Captain.
BEagle, you're quite right about not changing the entry. I just couldn't be arsed to explain all that. Yes I would enlighten the chap to his inappropriate entry and lean him towards the outcome! You know what I mean.
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Basically yes!
My reading of it is that these SEP renewals should be P/UT under the current rules. As to whether anybody actually cares what it is logged as is a totally different matter!
My reading of it is that these SEP renewals should be P/UT under the current rules. As to whether anybody actually cares what it is logged as is a totally different matter!
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If we are talking about an
FAA Flight Review (used to be called "biennial flight review"), the following:
It depends wheter or not your currency has expired. If you are current and rated on the aircraft you are doing your flight review in, you can log PIC and DUAL at the same time.
If you are already overdue for your flight review, or when you are not rated on the aircraft, you can not log PIC, and you will need to log DUAL time only.
Note that for the flight review currency, it expires after 24 months, on the last day of the month.
-IBLB-
FAA Flight Review (used to be called "biennial flight review"), the following:
It depends wheter or not your currency has expired. If you are current and rated on the aircraft you are doing your flight review in, you can log PIC and DUAL at the same time.
If you are already overdue for your flight review, or when you are not rated on the aircraft, you can not log PIC, and you will need to log DUAL time only.
Note that for the flight review currency, it expires after 24 months, on the last day of the month.
-IBLB-
